Official Ford Focus Electric Thread

[TimeHorse]

July 2011 newsletter: http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/news/P111164.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This standard is estimated to be approved and released around the beginning of 2012

Well, I saw the plug before but here's the receptacle. Now more than ever, I have to ask can a LEAF be retroactively modified? For one thing, I don't think you can plug that in vertically anymore; it won't fit in the charge access bay. Twist it sideways and break Nissan's heart by ditching ChaDeMo and yeah, you could fit it. But all I really want is a retro-fit of a MFing 6.6kWh charger; for that matter, can I have a 19kWh charger so I can put my Clipper Creek CS 100 to full use?? Not even the FFE can give me that!

 

[evnow]

Well, I saw the plug before but here's the receptacle. Now more than ever, I have to ask can a LEAF be retroactively modified? For one thing, I don't think you can plug that in vertically anymore; it won't fit in the charge access bay. Twist it sideways and break Nissan's heart by ditching ChaDeMo and yeah, you could fit it. But all I really want is a retro-fit of a MFing 6.6kWh charger; for that matter, can I have a 19kWh charger so I can put my Clipper Creek CS 100 to full use?? Not even the FFE can give me that!

Bigger question is - who is putting up QC with the new port ? My guess is - most QC will have both CHADEMO and the new one - or just the CHADEMO.

Note that none of the manufacturers who have signed up for the new port are making any non-carb play EVs. They should have atleast tried to rope in Tesla.

 

[TimeHorse]

Well, I saw the plug before but here's the receptacle. Now more than ever, I have to ask can a LEAF be retroactively modified? For one thing, I don't think you can plug that in vertically anymore; it won't fit in the charge access bay. Twist it sideways and break Nissan's heart by ditching ChaDeMo and yeah, you could fit it. But all I really want is a retro-fit of a MFing 6.6kWh charger; for that matter, can I have a 19kWh charger so I can put my Clipper Creek CS 100 to full use?? Not even the FFE can give me that!

Bigger question is - who is putting up QC with the new port ? My guess is - most QC will have both CHADEMO and the new one - or just the CHADEMO.

Note that none of the manufacturers who have signed up for the new port are making any non-carb play EVs. They should have atleast tried to rope in Tesla.

If J1772+ is the standard, ChaDeMo's days are as numbered as a Betamax here in the U.S. We can be proud we got em, but eventually they'll see it's cheaper to just build the standard rather than support a diminishing percent of older cars that only have ChaDeMo. Enjoy that we're de facto and first now, because it won't last if you won't follow a standard. We gambled, we lost. It's as simple as that. But at least with ChaDeMo we can power our house during a panne d'electricité.

 

[evnow]

If J1772+ is the standard, ChaDeMo's days are as numbered as a Betamax here in the U.S.

Or not. Finally what matters in standards is what is on the ground.

Let us say by the end of next year - there are a lot of EVProject QCs dotting west coast. If manufacturer X comes up with the new port would anyone pay and buy that option ?

I can see Ingineer being busy with chademo to the new port adopters.

 

[TimeHorse]

If J1772+ is the standard, ChaDeMo's days are as numbered as a Betamax here in the U.S.

Or not. Finally what matters in standards is what is on the ground.

Let us say by the end of next year - there are a lot of EVProject QCs dotting west coast. If manufacturer X comes up with the new port would anyone pay and buy that option ?

I can see Ingineer being busy with chademo to the new port adopters.

Yes, we're a clever lot; adapters will come; just wish the same could have been said for Betamax.

 

[DrRocket]

Forget the camels (Chadmo and SAE) and let's just go with the horse (Tesla).

I would retro my Leaf to the Tesla plug very quickly.

 

[scottf200]

Forget the camels (Chadmo and SAE) and let's just go with the horse (Tesla).
I would retro my Leaf to the Tesla plug very quickly.

Yes, but could you get the 'charger' to match your Leaf's paint job <grin>. From the Tesla articles on the subject they thought theirs was better looking and you could order it to match your cars color.

 

[evnow]

Forget the camels (Chadmo and SAE) and let's just go with the horse (Tesla).

I would retro my Leaf to the Tesla plug very quickly.

Hmmm ?

There are - and won't be for a long time - any public infrastructure that uses Tesla plugs. So, why would you change from something useful to something useless, if sleek.

 

[ChargedUp]

I'm glad to see another car out on the market. However, if I was in the market with $40k to spend, I may try to stretch myself to $50 and get a Model S.

The $50K Model S doesn't really exist. The base model is $57K or so, then you take the $7,500 tax credit to get to $49,500. Also, they won't be making ANY of that model until at least 2013 or 2014, its all 300 mile, $80-90K "Signature Edition", then 300 mile Standard editions for at least a year or two, and they don't expect to start production until mid 2012. Also, they have not finallized the pricing, and its only going in 1 direciton, and thats up. There will be all kinds of "options" that will really be required, thats why the real price for a Model S you can actually BUY will be in the $80-90K range.

Also the Focus EV is made by a third party, thats part of the reason its so pricey, they really don't expect to sell many of them, and they don't really seem serious, the way Nissan is. I would expect this to be a basic CARB play, in the end.

Good Eye Mitch. I was thinking the same thing...man if I'm gonna spend 40k what will 50k get me. As you point out though, the $50k Model S is nothing but a dream for now.

I think Ford was very sensible in selecting Magna's EV components, instead of trying to design and build EV components in house.

 

[ChargedUp]

It's nice looking and may handle better than the LEAF even with the higher pack cg; but...not much info about warranty, battery or otherwise. Website has very little info for a car that is supposed to be delivered by EOY in CA, NY.

Called the listed Ford EV dealer in my area and was met with the usual cricket sounds when I said I was interested in ordering and asked when I could get a test drive. Sales guy said Ford has told them almost nothing and what they have said keeps changing. They don't expect to see any models for 60 days.
Then a long whine about all the specialized expensive equipment they have to install (charging stations, service bay)... where have I heard this before.

Sales guy also said they have no idea about pricing yet... really I said?...you know there's a web site, with pricing... he had no idea.
sigh.
I agree with precious poster, this looks like a CARB play although no reason to roll out in lots of states if that's the case. Maybe Ford just doesn't have their heart in this yet.

Ford has announced that 2011 EOY sales will be commercial sales. Thus it is not surprising that the dealer is not interested/and has little information. This will not change very much even when they have actual allocation, because dealers are not interested cars that they can sell by the handful when they have cars right now they can sell by the hundreds.

 

[ChargedUp]

I would like to see a report of anyone actually placing an ordr sucessfully with a Ford dealer in a launch market!

we should be seeing reports in the Focus forum of orders


shouldnt we? :|

Ford has announced that FFE will be commercial/fleet sales EOY 2011. Consumer sales will open up for Spring 2012. So maybe around February? we will see people placing actual orders?

 

[evnow]

The $50K Model S doesn't really exist. The base model is $57K or so, then you take the $7,500 tax credit to get to $49,500. Also, they won't be making ANY of that model until at least 2013 or 2014, its all 300 mile, $80-90K "Signature Edition", then 300 mile Standard editions for at least a year or two, and they don't expect to start production until mid 2012.

That is pure speculation. According to the Q3 financial call, base model won't be out in first 5 months.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6763-Elon-Musk-No-Leasing-program-from-Tesla-in-the-first-12-Months-(Q3-Financial-Call" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

 

[mitch672]

The $50K Model S doesn't really exist. The base model is $57K or so, then you take the $7,500 tax credit to get to $49,500. Also, they won't be making ANY of that model until at least 2013 or 2014, its all 300 mile, $80-90K "Signature Edition", then 300 mile Standard editions for at least a year or two, and they don't expect to start production until mid 2012.

That is pure speculation. According to the Q3 financial call, base model won't be out in first 5 months.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6763-Elon-Musk-No-Leasing-program-from-Tesla-in-the-first-12-Months-(Q3-Financial-Call" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

"past performance is no indication of future results"

Teslas past performance has been horrific, they NEED to sell the most expensive, highest priced/highest margin vehicles ASAP, they are now a public company with shareholders, they owe money to the DOE ($465 million), they took money from the public. They MUST show results, they are not going to do that shipping the lowest cost version of the car. 5 months? I would be impressed if they ship it ever, given their horrendous track record. You did see Revenge, correct? Between Space-X, Tesla, his 5 kids from his first marriage, his fancy brit actress GF/now wife, Elon has his hands full. Tesla can still fail, there are no gurantee's, even with all of the money sunk into them. Let's see if Tesla can even get out the 300 mile Model S's in 2012, that will be impressive enough. There is still no final price for any of the Model S's either, as they haven't sold 1 yet. I'm betting on at least a %10-15 price increase before the 1st delivery, you see in the film how well that goes over with buyers. anyway, this is the wrong thread for this topic.

 

[Valdemar]

I really like how new Focus HB looks but 40k price tag and small cargo capacity is a non-starter for me. Also the fact FFE is done by a 3rd party doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in its reliability, given that Ford itself has a spotty record in that department. So happy I went with the Leaf. It pretty much looks like the Leaf will be the only practical and relatively affordable (with rebates/credits) family EV for at least another year.

 

[Herm]

You know Nissan is in it for the long haul.

 

[c1987]

I got a look at the latest FFE at the green festival in SF this weekend.
They opened up the hood and trunk by midday and it's pretty sad. The truck is about the
size of a bag of golf clubs. The "engine" compartment looks like a stock focus had it's
engine pulled and then they mounted the electronics in it's place. The electronics sit really
low in the engine compartment and the construction looked cheap.

The specs said it has a 100 mile range and 4 hour charge time. No mention of any circuits
or terrain for this range. The batteries are air cooled by the interior ventilation
system...guess this is active thermal management.

They had a big green theme with displays all around. Lots of salespeople around too.
Much better marketing then the Santa Monica Alt vehicle show last year where they had just a prototype
car and a few salespeople. Still, they could have done test drives (assuming the car even
runs). Instead they were test driving ICE Fiesta's.

Sorry I didn't think to take pictures. Guess I too unimpressed.

 

[evnow]

I got a look at the latest FFE at the green festival in SF this weekend.
They opened up the hood and trunk by midday and it's pretty sad. The truck is about the
size of a bag of golf clubs. The "engine" compartment looks like a stock focus had it's
engine pulled and then they mounted the electronics in it's place. The electronics sit really
low in the engine compartment and the construction looked cheap.

Are you sure it is production intent FFE and not the old prototype ?

The specs said it has a 100 mile range and 4 hour charge time. No mention of any circuits
or terrain for this range. The batteries are air cooled by the interior ventilation
system...guess this is active thermal management.

This is the first I've heard of this. I had assumed they had proper liquid cooling like the Volt does. Is this something you heard from Ford guys ?

 

[Rusty]

The batteries are air cooled by the interior ventilation
system...guess this is active thermal management.

This is the first I've heard of this. I had assumed they had proper liquid cooling like the Volt does. Is this something you heard from Ford guys ?

Yeah, that comment stunned me too. The Volt uses the same AC circuit to provide cooling for the liquid battery cooling as for cabin air (refrigerant gets routed through separate heat exchangers if I understand that part of the system, which I may not), so perhaps the FFE is similar and the sales frog got confused?

If they're actually using cabin air through the battery that's a big retreat/change from prior statements.

 

[c1987]

"This is the first I've heard of this. I had assumed they had proper liquid cooling like the Volt does. Is this something you heard from Ford guys ?"

I read it off their display. Said only air, not liquid cooling. I did not bring this up with the sales force there. Now am really wishing I took some photos to share. Could the display be wrong?

 

[evnow]

If they're actually using cabin air through the battery that's a big retreat/change from prior statements.

Yes.

Anyway, overall the FFE effort looks amateurish compared to Leaf/Volt efforts. I just hope Energi is much better.