Official BMW i3 thread

[kmp647]

they have yet to post or advertise any Lease offers at all. seems somewhat normal with a new product. But BMW should announce a public lease offer by at least the end of the year or when cars are available at the dealerships. August? December? I think it will be different from the Leaf rollout as it is nationwide .
once stores have a couple I3's in stock in non ev adoption areas the offers will be posted on BMW's website

it will not be easy as the schemes they have designed are complicated with the balloons and all

what they will need at some point is a straight advertised lease offer just as all BMW's have, and I guess it will only include the $4875 lease credit instead of the full $7,500 .......

 

[TomMoloughney]

they have yet to post or advertise any Lease offers at all. seems somewhat normal with a new product. But BMW should announce a public lease offer by at least the end of the year or when cars are available at the dealerships. August? December? I think it will be different from the Leaf rollout as it is nationwide.

once stores have a couple I3's in stock in non ev adoption areas the offers will be posted on BMW's website it will not be easy as the schemes they have designed are complicated with the balloons and all what they will need at some point is a straight advertised lease offer just as all BMW's have, and I guess it will only include the $4875 lease credit instead of the full $7,500 .......

The OwnersChoice with Flex really isn't a complicated scheme. It's not complicated at all actually and I think any half-way intelligent person can easily understand it if they took a look at what it is. (and I'm not saying you or anyone else here isn't half-way intelligent!)
It's a purchase that allows you to return the car if you want at the end of the term or buy it. This allows a couple things:

1) You only have to finance a portion of the value of the car like you do with a lease (say 36 months of use) so your monthly payments are lower like a lease.

2) Since it's a purchase you get to claim the full $7,500 tax credit on your taxes.

3) To further lower your payments, BMW FS will allow you to take a capitol cost reduction up to $7,500. If you choose to do so, you owe that money to BMW FS and can pay it back whenever you want, like when you get the money back after doing your taxes, or you can wait till the end of the term and pay it then (they refer to it as a balloon payment and I think that adds to the confusion).

So lets say you use OC w/ Flex and take the full $7,500 cap cost reduction. Your 36 months are up now and your options are:

a) Return the car and pay only the $7,500 (if you didn't do so already when you got it back from your taxes)
b) Keep the car and pay the residual value plus the $7,500. (This is no different than if you decided to buy your car outright once your lease was up.)

Yes, the easiest way to eliminate the need for this whole thing is for BMW to simply give the full $7,500 federal Tax credit to the customer on a lease, but that isn't happening because they swear they don't get it. I'm not arguing if they do or don't or what because I really don't care how they came to the conclusion that they can't give the full tax credit, I'm just trying to explain OC w/Flex.

So this really is the next best thing because it allows you to get the full tax credit (provided you earned enough money to pay $7,500 in taxes) and have the option to lease or buy the car and also get the $7,500 capitol cost reduction to lower your monthly payments.

 

[kmp647]

Thanks for the great explanation Tom !

 

[mkjayakumar]

Thanks Tom.

Basically what BMW is doing is, giving you the tax credit immediately when you buy the car, and then you give BMW later when you get it from uncle Sam.

This is in a way similar to how NMAC is doing it on their leases, except you don't need to give the $7500 back to NMAC because your are not eligible for the credit anyway when you lease it (as NMAC is the owner of the car and not you), and NMAC is getting the Fed credit directly from uncle Sam.

 

[evnow]

what they will need at some point is a straight advertised lease offer just as all BMW's have, and I guess it will only include the $4875 lease credit instead of the full $7,500 .......

That is why they won't advertise it - it will be a freaking big number.

 

[Clippy]

what they will need at some point is a straight advertised lease offer just as all BMW's have, and I guess it will only include the $4875 lease credit instead of the full $7,500 .......

That is why they won't advertise it - it will be a freaking big number.

That's true. The obfuscation coming from BMW and its minions concerning something as simple as the answer to "What's this thing going to cost?" leads me to believe that this whole scheme is not just half-baked but hiding something besides the price of admission. Could be they don't even want to sell this thing in the US.

When I did my "Electronaut Special Edition" meeting with my wonderful salesdude, it was one of the most hilarious conversations I've had in a while. After spending most of the time apologizing for the insane numbers he kept coming up with I was forced to say, "Stop it, Do I look like your Priest?" I was pretty much discouraged from considering the vehicle by BMW themselves.

Unless it's a fact that there is some secret pact to keep this car "Over There," I agree with you that they are simply going to have to come up with a "Lease Package" that the US consumer will feel comfortable with. "$199 per month, $995 due at signing," rolls so trippingly off the tongue. I have faith that BMW will come up with something that the general public (remember them?) can wrap their minds around.

But, being a numbers kind of guy, I ended up with an evil Fiat 500e "Compliance Car." (<-----You "EV Community" purists just slay me) for the aforementioned $199/$995 deal-io. It's a hoot to drive and the range of the vehicle has actually gone up in my nearly two months of ownership. Unlike the non-compliance (and therefore Saintly) Nissan Leaf of my acquaintance. And it's certainly spent less time in the shop that the last German EV I drove. It must be that Bosch drive train.

 

[pbennett]

So what were the numbers you were given for the i3?

 

[Clippy]

So what were the numbers you were given for the i3?

We never got to any real "hard" numbers, but it was north of $700 with a bunch of Bens down. I remember one scenario where the figure was over $900. The residuals were awful and the resultant monthly was high because of it. So, we spent nearly an hour playng with the numbers to see how high we could make the monthly. It was fun.

This whole i3 just makes me want to either cry or pull my hair out. As I've said repeatedly, the ActiveE was a great ride (when it worked). I would have really liked another 1 Series based EV, but the "Car for tomorrow" people won this round. Oh well, I was also disappointed when the Nissan Cube EV testbed vehicle didn't make it to production.

 

[pbennett]

Sounds like the numbers talked about earlier - at those prices I'd just lease a Tesla. BMW is nuts.

 

[TomMoloughney]

As with anything, it really depends on what options you want and what you want to put down. I had my dealer print out an OwnersChoice with Flex deal where I got a base i3 BEV with $2,500 down and 12K per month and the monthly payments are $461.54 for 36 months.

I also found this printout that someone posted comparing a lease, OwnersChoice and OwnersChoice with Flex where they applied the full $7,500 capitol cost reduction. These are all for 36 month leases, with only 10K per year mileage though and I don't know how much extra it would be to bump that up to 12k or 15k.

The monthly payments are between $456/mo and $532/mo. Also, these are all with the Giga World interior which is a $1,500 upgrade.

 

[Stoaty]

As with anything, it really depends on what options you want and what you want to put down. I had my dealer print out an OwnersChoice with Flex deal where I got a base i3 BEV with $2,500 down and 12K per month and the monthly payments are $461.54 for 36 months.

That's $19,000 over 3 years. I could almost get a Leaf in California for that much after the rebates... and I would own it free and clear. Not very enticing.

 

[JeremyW]

As with anything, it really depends on what options you want and what you want to put down. I had my dealer print out an OwnersChoice with Flex deal where I got a base i3 BEV with $2,500 down and 12K per month and the monthly payments are $461.54 for 36 months

Won't you blow through the 12k miles per year with how much driving you do?! :? What's the over mileage penalty?

 

[TomMoloughney]

As with anything, it really depends on what options you want and what you want to put down. I had my dealer print out an OwnersChoice with Flex deal where I got a base i3 BEV with $2,500 down and 12K per month and the monthly payments are $461.54 for 36 months.

That's $19,000 over 3 years. I could almost get a Leaf in California for that much after the rebates... and I would own it free and clear. Not very enticing.

Agreed! It is much more expensive than a LEAF and for many people a LEAF is indeed a better deal - no argument here. You can also get a much better deal on an Accord than a 3-Series. Just the same they are vastly different cars. The LEAF is indeed a very good EV at a very good price!

 

[TomMoloughney]

As with anything, it really depends on what options you want and what you want to put down. I had my dealer print out an OwnersChoice with Flex deal where I got a base i3 BEV with $2,500 down and 12K per month and the monthly payments are $461.54 for 36 months

Won't you blow through the 12k miles per year with how much driving you do?! :? What's the over mileage penalty?

Yes of course! I'm buying mine. I never lease (the only cars I've leased were the lease-only MINI-E and ActiveE). I'll have 100,000 miles on my i3 in three years so leasing is not even an option.

 

[kmp647]

I'm glad my Leaf lease isn't up til January 2015, by then I'm hoping the pricing pressure is off the i3
I don't want to buy when something is so new you have to beg for it.

I3 will be at the top of my list so far prob with Rex
Other might be PHEV such as Audi a3 and mitsubishi outlander if they ever actually sell it in the us
Guessing those 3 cars, i3 rex , Audi a3 and the outlander will be within a grand or so of each other

Won't be able to wait for smaller tesla

I3 will do well, but maybe not as many as leaf as its in a higher bracket

 

[evnow]

Seattle i3 drive tests are sometime in June. That is actually a good month for test drives - with little chance of rain.

I'll figure out at that time if i3 is worth the price compared to Leaf.

Though, I should say, I always thought it would be about $500 a month - and OC w/flex is that much. So, can't complain about the price.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Seattle i3 drive tests are sometime in June. That is actually a good month for test drives - with little chance of rain.

I'll figure out at that time if i3 is worth the price compared to Leaf.

Though, I should say, I always thought it would be about $500 a month - and OC w/flex is that much. So, can't complain about the price.

You'll definitely be able to get one in that price range if you don't load it up with options. The high lease prices you've seen aren't completely fantasy either though. You can add about $9,000 worth of options to an i3 and if you get the range extender that's another $3,850. So the price range is actually $42,275 (base BEV) all the way up to $56,025 (loaded REx). Add sales tax to that in California and it's $60,000! So there were people asking for 3 year lease quotes an loaded cars with little or no money down and yes, they are close to $900/month which is crazy, but lease a car that's $60K with no money down and it's going to be expensive any way you look at it.

 

[evnow]

The 7.5k is going to have lesser effect as the price increases. It has the biggest effect on lowest prices EVS like Mitsu I - and lowest effect on Model S - since as a percentage the 7.5k will get lower.

Leaf is in the sweet spot. Esp. if the local government throws in some money - like they do in Georgia.

 

[cwerdna]

I3 will do well, but maybe not as many as leaf as its in a higher bracket

IMHO, there's almost no way the i3 (even if there are no supply constraints) will sell in equal numbers to the Leaf for a given equivalent 6-month or 1-year period in the US.

The price is too high, I don't like its styling (and it seems to be quite true amongst Americans, judging by some other threads on Facebook) and its EPA range will likely not exceed even that of the Leaf's. There are a # of other factors such as it using J1772 CCS for DC FC (almost no J1772 CCS infrastructure in NA), high lease prices and some not-so-good stories I'm hearing about re: BMW dealers.

I find it even unlikely that i3 US sales will be even 75% of Leaf sales, for a given time period. I'd suspect that it'll be somewhere between 25% and 50% of Leaf sales, given that BMW Group only sells about 30% of the number of vehicles in the US as Nissan NA (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/06/2013-yearly-auto-sales-by-the-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, for a given year.

 

[Clippy]

I3 will do well, but maybe not as many as leaf as its in a higher bracket

IMHO, there's almost no way the i3 (even if there are no supply constraints) will sell in equal numbers to the Leaf for a given equivalent 6-month or 1-year period in the US.

The price is too high, I don't like its styling (and it seems to be quite true amongst Americans, judging by some other threads on Facebook) and its EPA range will likely not exceed even that of the Leaf's. There are a # of other factors such as it using J1772 CCS (almost no infrastructure in NA), high lease prices and some not-so-good stories I'm hearing about re: BMW dealers.

I find it even unlikely that i3 US sales will be even 75% of Leaf sales, for a given time period. I'd suspect that it'll be somewhere between 25% and 50% of Leaf sales, given that BMW Group only sells about 30% of the number of vehicles in the US as Nissan NA (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/06/2013-yearly-auto-sales-by-the-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, for a given year.

I think the price is too high currently and will remain so for a bit. They could be trying to control supply in this country with this scheme. Anytime you take some of the dealer's fudge factor numbers away from them, they can't be happy. As I discussed with my dealer, we used to call this particular smoke screen "Blowing up the Balloon" to get them in the car.

I think the car will do well in Europe, and of course in Germany.

In this country, they just aren't dealing yet. They are still playing with a big MSRP and low residuals and that will impact sales. How much no one knows.

Speaking only for myself, my current $200 per month net including insurance and electricity made any i3 "deal" my dealer and I could come up with an impossibility. With or without the exclamation points!

Looking forward real soon to the thread entitled, "Dealers offering discounts!"