Official BMW i3 thread

[evnow]

Or are you interested to learn that I did not buy an Acura, Aston Martin, Audi, Bentley, ...

Yes - if they sold BEVs.

 

[surfingslovak]

Or are you interested to learn that I did not buy an Acura, Aston Martin, Audi, Bentley, ...

Yes - if they sold BEVs.

I think you missed cBeam's point there. Anyway, I think it's time to come back to the topic of the thread again.

 

[evnow]

I think you missed cBeam's point there. Anyway, I think it's time to come back to the topic of the thread again.

Not really. I'd actually be interested in knowing why someone considered but didn't buy brand x/model y - as long as it is a BEV.

Saying something like "Just don't buy the car, if you don't like it or can't afford it" is the most useless thing to say in an internet forum. That kind of statement is meant to kill conversation rather than promote discussion.

 

[surfingslovak]

Saying something like "Just don't buy the car, if you don't like it or can't afford it" is the most useless thing to say in an internet forum. That kind of statement is meant to kill conversation rather than promote discussion.

I'm all for continued discussion, but as forum moderator, I hope that you recognize that there are limits we shouldn't explore.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Anyone know if the RAV4Ev ever got it's charging timer fix? I almost bought that nice vehicle until these forums informed me of it. That and the lack of a CHAdeMO input cinched it for me.

Timer issue fixed. We are working on a CHAdeMO modification to the Rav4 EV called "JdeMO".

 

[TonyWilliams]

BMW itself has never said that the i3 will get a white sticker. This was based on comments and articles from one journalist.

Well, it is quite clear why BMW designed REx with the limitations we see - and those seem to match with the CARB rules as written. Highly unlikely, those two happened independently.

Also true that BMW issued a statement about stickers.

So, yes, BMW never stated they were going after white sticker - but actions of CARB (rule changes etc) and design of REx makes it obvious.

I have to agree that it would be beyond a stretch to believe that in Europe, the same car (and even the Volt twin, the Ampera) can start the petrol burner well before 5% battery level, but the US versions just happen to not do that.

Having said that, of course we really don't know what CARB will do. I tend to believe they will in fact issue the white sticker for the oil burner i3. But,that's just a hunch based on how all the little pieces of BMW's design perfectly matched the rules as I understand them:

1) burn electricity first, then oil (US only)
2) oil range can't exceed EV range (hence teeny gas tank... interesting point is that the actual BMW motorcycle that is the donor for the 650cc engine holds more petrol).

 

[surfingslovak]

Having said that, of course we really don't know what CARB will do. I tend to believe they will in fact issue the white sticker for the oil burner i3.

Yes, that's the $3,850 many have been waiting for. Still no word from CARB. I just reached out to them earlier today. They have already added the BEV to their eligibility list, and the BEVx cannot be far behind.

 

[TomT]

Actually, I think he nailed the point!

I think you missed cBeam's point there. Anyway, I think it's time to come back to the topic of the thread again.

 

[TomT]

I think it should be very simple: If it can burn petroleum fuel, it does not get a white sticker, only a green.
Otherwise, it is simply a scam.

Having said that, of course we really don't know what CARB will do. I tend to believe they will in fact issue the white sticker for the oil burner i3. But,that's just a hunch based on how all the little pieces of BMW's design perfectly matched the rules as I understand them

 

[surfingslovak]

Actually, I think he nailed the point!

I think you missed cBeam's point there. Anyway, I think it's time to come back to the topic of the thread again.

Well, we have to agree to disagree then.

Without wanting to get into semantics, cBeam's point was that this thread is about the i3 and what we can learn about it. I'm sorry that BMW is apparently not building the EV you might want to buy. This is not something we can fix on this thread. Why is it not possible to stick to announcements, facts, owner reports and other things relevant to the i3?

I'm surprised to see that the majority of posts on this thread is completely irrelevant to an owner or a potential owner. If you wish to discuss how much BMW disappointed you, and how you loathe their products, may I suggest that you did that on a different thread? I hope that you will be able to collect all the information you need there.

Otherwise, it is simply a scam.

I found your perspective always valuable, but the latest posts have been less than constructive.

 

[pbennett]

this thread is about the i3 and what we can learn about it

Which is also contained within the Nissan Leaf forum, not the BMW Forum, so it's *completely* appropriate to compare the BMW to the Leaf and what it does/doesn't bring to the table in comparison.

 

[surfingslovak]

this thread is about the i3 and what we can learn about it

Which is also contained within the Nissan Leaf forum, not the BMW Forum, so it's *completely* appropriate to compare the BMW to the Leaf and what it does/doesn't bring to the table in comparison.

I didn't say that or did I? Comparing the i3 to the LEAF is OK, but a continuous bitch fest based on made-up or incorrect information isn't particularly helpful. If you must vent, please do so elsewhere.

 

[cBeam]

Actually, I think he nailed the point!

I think you missed cBeam's point there. Anyway, I think it's time to come back to the topic of the thread again.

Maybe I should give some background:
I am in the process deciding about installing a solar system on my roof. We are a pretty energy efficient household, so the savings in the electric bill will not be enough to come up with a reasonable ROI. We do have 3 cars, and one seems to be a perfect candidate to be replaced by an electric car (predictable commute pattern). We would charge at home and exchange the fuel bill of one car against electricity generated on our roof.

I am following electric cars for quite some time, and getting closer on a decision about solar and exchanging one car. A 60-80 mile car (range) would fit our need.

If you read this forum one is confronted with an abundance of negativity:
The Leaf's battery loses 10% of its capacity a year, the car has an abysmal range in cold weather, you better buy a heated jacket when you intend to drive the Leaf in cold weather. You need to buy a device that displays "GIDs" so you know if there is still energy left in a battery. The Focus EV is unreliable and has no usable trunk, the electric propulsion system is an afterthoght. The i3 is a scheme derived by mean executives in Munich to get a white sticker, is ugly and has suicide doors. And some apparently feel betrayed because they think that BMW sells the car for too much $$$ and does apparently not offer low priced leases (but no one has bought or leased an i3 here in the U.S.A. as of yet).

As I am not a regular frequenting this site I try to read as much as possible to get information and opinions about the topic so I can make my own conclusions. If you read this particular "Official i3" thread you find good information and reasonably expressed opinions. However, you will find also many posts of people who do not consider buying or leasing an i3 and they seem to feel the need to tell the world that they feel betrayed, lost respect, or indicate that the only differences between a Leaf and an i3 are "suicide doors".

That's what I call sour grapes. If it is not the car for you and you have nothing else to contribute than a negative opinion without reasoning, why clog this thread and post at all? I find these posts are useless, in the same way why I find it useless to post why I did not buy certain brands of cars.

I hoped this forum provides some usable information to people interested in electric cars. And some posters provide just that, so thank you. Others? - Not so much, in my humble opinion.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I hope you find that perfect EV you are looking for. When you do, please let me know, I would like to get one too.

That's what I call sour grapes.

Please.. tell me what is that i3 gives me for $15K more than Leaf ? I have been dying to hear that. But I have not seen one post that gives me a good comparison between Leaf and i3.

Battery degradation is bad in Leaf, but we don't know how is it going to be in i3.

Winter range is abysmal in Leaf, and I can sure bet it will be just as bad in i3 too. This is just basic Physics. BMW doesn't have a magic wand to solve that. Heck even Tesla fairs poorly on a cold day, losing as much as 30% of range. Except on a Model S it will be a problem only when you a road-tripping, the range is good enough for all your daily chores. So on a 15F degree day on an i3, I will still be driving 50 miles to turtle, except the $15K more I paid might perhaps make me feel warm and fuzzy ?

Again, this is my request: explain in tangible terms, what am I getting over a Nissan Leaf for all the extra $$ that an i3 costs ?

 

[Valdemar]

^^^ You are getting the ultimate driving machine Jokes aside, it does drive better than the Leaf, arguably it looks better outside, definitely much more upscale inside. But I agree that the premium you pay for what you get is too much. But same can be said about other BMW cars, i.e. Altima vs. the 3-series. Some people prefer one over the other. Same applies here.

 

[aqn]

Please.. tell me what is that i3 gives me for $15K more than Leaf ? I have been dying to hear that. But I have not seen one post that gives me a good comparison between Leaf and i3.
[...]
Again, this is my request: explain in tangible terms, what am I getting over a Nissan Leaf for all the extra $$ that an i3 costs ?

I'm not gonna tell you, because what I consider "more" will not coincide with what you consider "more". It'd be a waste of your time and my time.

 

[mkjayakumar]

'm not gonna tell you, because what I consider "more" will not coincide with what you consider "more". It'd be a waste of your time and my time.

Fair enough. I take it as nothing more than BMW luxury tax. I paid my share of luxury tax on Lexus vehicles.

But here is my point: For a range limited, or a crippled BEV all those extra niceties mean very little. After 50 miles of driving at sub-zero weather, when your i3 slows down to turtle 10 miles from your house, all those zippy acceleration, wood trim, and a nice BMW logo means nothing. Or the likely scenario would be that the expensive i3 would be the garage queen on those days, when the trusted polluting ICE would take you around.

Now, don't get me wrong. The same thing is even more true for my lowly Leaf. Except atleast I will be satisfied that I paid far less than the neighbors garage queen who paid $15K more.

 

[cBeam]

Fair enough. I take it as nothing more than BMW luxury tax. I paid my share of luxury tax on Lexus vehicles.

But here is my point: For a range limited, or a crippled BEV all those extra niceties mean very little. After 50 miles of driving at sub-zero weather, when your i3 slows down to turtle 10 miles from your house, all those zippy acceleration, wood trim, and a nice BMW logo means nothing. Or the likely scenario would be that the expensive i3 would be the garage queen on those days, when the trusted polluting ICE would take you around.

Now, don't get me wrong. The same thing is even more true for my lowly Leaf. Except atleast I will be satisfied that I paid far less than the neighbors garage queen who paid $15K more.

Okay, this settles it then for me. According to your advice I will not get an electric vehicle because I don't want to be stranded 10 miles from my house knowing that you are getting satisfaction from the fact that I paid for an electric vehicle. [/End of sarcasm]

So what is your evaluation of the i3 compared to say a Leaf or a Focus EV? I already know that you find it too expensive, and I assume you don't like the door configuration. What is your experience in driving the i3 in cold weather, how does the range change? What about battery degradation, does the i3 also lose 10% per year battery capacity as stated by some for the Leaf? Does the i3's weight advantage turn into a range benefit when driving a hilly terrain? I saw in a different thread that you can't input a destination address into the Leaf's nav system unless the car is stopped. The (ICE) car I am currently driving allows to put in a destination while driving, which is usually done by someone in the passenger seat. How does the i3 handle this?

I haven't seen the i3 in person nor have I driven the car. Based on your location I assume you haven't driven the i3 either. I have test-driven the Leaf and I was underwhelmed, maybe because I am biased against Asian cars in general. Still I have not excluded the Leaf from my list of cars I consider to buy or lease. If nothing else the i3 seems to be one of the few credible additional offerings in the electric car category, competition is usually good. Time will tell if the car will be successful or not.

 

[GRA]

So what is your evaluation of the i3 compared to say a Leaf or a Focus EV? I already know that you find it too expensive, and I assume you don't like the door configuration. What is your experience in driving the i3 in cold weather, how does the range change? What about battery degradation, does the i3 also lose 10% per year battery capacity as stated by some for the Leaf? Does the i3's weight advantage turn into a range benefit when driving a hilly terrain? I saw in a different thread that you can't input a destination address into the Leaf's nav system unless the car is stopped. The (ICE) car I am currently driving allows to put in a destination while driving, which is usually done by someone in the passenger seat. How does the i3 handle this?

I haven't seen the i3 in person nor have I driven the car. Based on your location I assume you haven't driven the i3 either. I have test-driven the Leaf and I was underwhelmed, maybe because I am biased against Asian cars in general. Still I have not excluded the Leaf from my list of cars I consider to buy or lease. If nothing else the i3 seems to be one of the few credible additional offerings in the electric car category, competition is usually good. Time will tell if the car will be successful or not.

Here's a quick and dirty comparo list.

Sub $35k MSRP, 80-100 EPA range.

LEAF.

+ Best family car for room, CHAdeMO, heat pump available, charging receptacles in nose.

- Boring performance, battery longevity in hot weather major handicap, no thermal conditioning for heat or cold (except protecting the battery) so big range hit in winter, PDM and heater issues in 2013, weird looks.


Focus.

+ Sportier than LEAF, nice interior, liquid-cooled battery, best looking (along with Fiat), receptacle ?

- Smaller interior than LEAF, limited cargo room, no QC, only top trim available, MyFordTouch/Sync, issues with car dying (may be resolved now).


Spark.

+ Least expensive, best accel, CCS QC available, probably most real-world freeway range, liquid-cooled and heated TMS, heat-tolerant battery, simple, functional switches, receptacle left front side.

- Only 4 person, mainly suitable as 2 adults + 2 pre-teens, only 3.3 kW OBC, limited # of CCS QCs, battery more susceptible to cold (needs heating), smallish cargo space, only available CA/OR, essentially compliance car at the moment.


500e.

+ Best looking, stylish interior, fun to drive, best accel after Spark and probably 2nd best real-world range.

- 3 doors, small 2 + 2, weird Italian driving position, no QC, no B or L mode, 'Fix it Again, Tony' rep to live down, no built-in nav, wait-listed compliance car.


Fit.

+ Best utility for size, reasonably fun to drive, unlimited mileage lease, Li-Ti anode battery should be long-lived.

- Lease only, no QC, wait-listed compliance car, big range hit in winter, battery only air-cooled.


$40k+ MSRP, 80-100 EPA range

i3.

+ Best accel, handling, general refinement, CCS QC available, bigger interior than all but LEAF, Focus and probably Fit.

- Very expensive for range, 4 person only, suicide doors, fixed rear windows, small cargo area, receptacle on right rear, limited CCS deployment, Active-E predecessor very unreliable, unattractive.


Sub $50k MSRP, 100-150 EPA range.

Rav4.

+ 142 mile range @65 mph per Tony W., fits five, good utility, Tesla powertrain, good accel.

- No QC, spotty reliability, compliance car.

 

[surfingslovak]

Here is an updated ride & drive event schedule compiled by members of our i3 Facebook group.

Apr 25: Nalley BMW, Decatur, GA

Mar 22: BMW of Tenafly NJ

Feb 22: BMW of Sudbury, MA 10am-6pm

Feb 22: Herb Chambers BMW of Boston, 10:00 am to 6:00 pm

Feb 21-22-23: East Bay BMW, Pleasanton, CA

The German publication Manager Magazin, which appeared on newsstands yesterday, reports that i3 production is ramping slower than anticipated. You can read a summary of their research in the article linked below.

BMW ramps i3 production slower than expected, carbon body parts blamed