Official BMW i3 thread

[edatoakrun]

Nov 26, 2013

The BMW i3 platform will be stretched to create a new family car probably called the i5, according to insiders.

The new model would be notably more family friendly, with extra legroom in the rear cabin and a bigger boot...

Creating the i5 is potentially a much cheaper and simpler operation than stretching a conventional steel monocoque car, as the i3 uses a separate chassis. Lengthening it is mostly a matter of extending the chassis’s longitudinal aluminium extrusions.

Likewise, because the body is made of carbon fibre-reinforced plastics, extending the pillarless passenger cell is mainly a case of stretching the roof and floor sections. Only the rear door structure would have to be completely re-engineered, although the hinge and clamp systems would be unchanged.

It’s not clear yet whether the i5 would need a more powerful range extender unit because of the car’s greater load-carrying capability. The model is unlikely to appear before mid-2015.

.


http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-news/bmw-to-expand-i3-electric-car-lineup-365605.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Boourns]

Interesting. My first question is whether it's going to cost $60,000.

 

[Stoaty]

BMW i3 scores only 4 stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test:

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-scores-only-4-stars-in-euro-ncap-crash-tests/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

Safety Assist is what seems to account for the shortfall. It scored high on everything else and higher than many, but low on that...

BMW i3 scores only 4 stars in Euro NCAP Crash Test:
http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-scores-only-4-stars-in-euro-ncap-crash-tests/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RegGuheert]

Safety Assist is what seems to account for the shortfall. It scored high on everything else and higher than many, but low on that...

I'm not sure what "Safety Assist" is, but I will say the i3 scored lower than the LEAF in every category.

 

[johnqh]

Safety Assist is what seems to account for the shortfall. It scored high on everything else and higher than many, but low on that...

I'm not sure what "Safety Assist" is, but I will say the i3 scored lower than the LEAF in every category.

On "Adult", "Child" and "Pedestrian", i3 is only marginally lower than Leaf. However, for "Safety Assist", it is significantly lower.

I think it lost points in the "Safety Assist" category for lacking of "Speed Assistance System" and no warning for rear seat belt. However, I am not aware that Leaf has those features either....

 

[Beleaf]

Any Aussies interested in this EV?

Currently, the suggestion is 3rd quarter 2014 and priced expectations are around AU$70k, $80k for the PHEV. The Leaf is AU$40k

Initial sales focused on Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth with Adelaide and Canberra to follow later.

I rang the local dealer and they didn't seem to know anything about it. There is a pre-production version here doing the rounds of the dealers, but not anywhere near me apparently.

Maybe I'll go and pay a deposit and see if I can stir them up

 

[TomMoloughney]

Yes, it did score 5 stars for the actual crash safety tests. the Safety Assist catagory srore was really low and it drove the overall score just below the 5 star rating. It's important to note that this category has been made much more difficult in the new test starting this year. As noted above the reason it got 4 stars overall instead of 5 is because it didn't have a rear seatbelt warning light to make sure the rear passengers are buckled up (I've never had a car with that) and the speed limit feature isn't standard. The car does have it, but it's optional in Europe (I think it's standard on US cars -the car I drove had it) What it does is the car knows the speed limit of the road you are driving on and it displays it on the screen. You can also set the car so that it will warn you if you exceed the speed limit. Evidently it had become too easy to achieve 5 stars on the test so they have made it more difficult - that's a good thing as we should continue to improve safety, but it should be noted the i3 scored a 5 of 5 in the actual crash tests for the driver and all passengers.

 

[ELROY]

Awesome display at the LA auto show. I went on Thanksgiving, pretty much no waiting to test the i3. You don't even have to pay the entry fee to the convention center, as this is across the street. You get to drive the cars solo also.

Pretty amazing how the carbon fiber frame is made. You can't imagine it being very strong, as it feels like plastic. But they have a material comparison showing the same weight sheets of steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber side by side. The steel easily flexes just like tin foil. The carbon fiber was very rigid.














Car was very smooth. Has a dampened throttle control right off the line, so not likely to get wheel spin. Unlike the Rav4E on sport with DSC off, it spins the tires instantly off the line. I think if BMW had more aggressive throttle mapping, then it could be quicker off the line. Whoever said the i3 has a throttle that is too touchy is not in touch. Many ICE cars have a more jerky throttle response than the ultra smooth i3.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm curious how repairable CF structure is. Definitely this is not what your typical body shop can fix. I drove the car today. Not a big fan of its exterior design but liked the cabin very much. Wish it had a larger battery, as it is it's likely a non-starter for my new 70 mile commute.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm curious how repairable CF structure is. Definitely this is not what your typical body shop can fix. I drove the car today. Not a big fan of its exterior design but liked the cabin very much. Wish it had a larger battery, as it is it's likely a non-starter for my new 70 mile commute.

BMW says that the CF structure is quite reparable, with costs comparable to their 1 Series. They say that the damaged piece is just cut out and the new piece is glued into place. Repairs, at least for a while, will need to be done at BMW centers. At launch in the US, BMW will have about 37 centers in place to do these repairs.

 

[Boomer23]

--Snip--

Con:
-- Very strong regen braking combined with a difficult-to-feel neutral band for coasting and no low speed "creep". Regen strength is non-adjustable, non-defeatable. Note that these are seen as positives by some EV drivers. See discussion below.
-- Odd exterior design. It has grown on me, but I must admit that I'm not drawn to the looks of the car. (And this is coming from a LEAF driver! LOL)
-- The lack of any on board SOC percent display. All the car has is a moving "progress bar" that diminishes as you use up the charge, and a range estimate (GOM) that is enhanced by the inclusion of elevation into the NAV calculations. (BMW is listening to customers and who knows, an SOC % display may be considered). SOC% is displayed on the remote smart phone app.
-- A too minimal dashboard array. While there are two tablet-type screens, I felt a lack of immediate EV information. Especially coming from the LEAF, I missed having the ability to display current and average energy economy, battery temperature range, and numeric kw usage and ancillary system power usage at the same time. Part of this impression might change if I had time to learn the i-Drive system and delve into some of the available displays on the center screen. But some of this information may just not be available at all in the BMW. But with the LEAF, these info screens are often just a push button away, while I find the BMW's i-Drive system daunting and distracting to scroll through while driving.
-- Seating position is too upright and high-feeling, even compared with LEAF. Seating position doesn't encourage sporty driving.
--Quirky door design, with front seat belts attached to the leading edges of the rear doors, requiring front seat passengers to open their doors and unbuckle to let rear seat passengers get out. With rear-hinged rear doors, if all passengers got out at the same time in a tight parking lot, well, think about it...
-- Rear seating limited to two people.
-- Rear side windows are fixed, do not open or tilt open at all.

--Snip--

I went back and drove the i3 on four laps of their street course today so that I could see how easy it would be to get used to the strong regen and lack of "creep". I'm pleased to say that I feel much more comfortable with the car after today's drives. Today I didn't even notice the lack of "creep" and it certainly wouldn't be a problem for me.

(By the way, if you have time to go there on Sunday morning, I'd still recommend it. The BMW i3 Experience tent is easy to access, costs nothing, wasn't crowded, and they trust you to drive alone without a BMW person with you. There are snacks and a barrista for free coffee drinks in the tent, plus some nice displays.)

As for the regen, I tried driving an entire street lap gently and sedately, the way I drive the LEAF when I'm trying for maximum passenger comfort and maximum economy. I found that it was pretty easy to drive the i3 that way, without needing to focus too strongly on finding the right angle position for the throttle to let the car "coast".

I also got used to the seating position. Yes, it's not set up like a sports car in terms of driving position, but you get used to it and it feels pretty good. The seat height adjustment control is awful, however. If you want to raise the driver seat height, you have to get your weight off the seat by pulling up on something like the steering wheel while pulling up on the seat lever with your left hand and letting the seat bottom rise up on its own springs. Not easily done without opening the car door. Lowering the seat is easy, just pull up on the lever and gravity does the rest.

I found the energy economy screen and I liked driving around with that screen open so I could see my average energy economy. If BMW changes the software and adds an SOC% display, the instruments should work ok along with the GOM to give a pretty good idea of range. Still not as good as LEAFs multiple energy economy meters and instantaneous power and regen kW displays, but acceptable. I'd miss the LEAF Scan or Gidmeter, though. BMW fans will need hackers like Gary, GregH, Turbo3, Ingineer, lincomatic, etc.

I'd remove the regen and lack of creep from my "Cons" list, and I'd also remove the display issue. Once I played with the i-Drive controller, it's fairly intuitive and easy to use. Still not as good as dedicated buttons and a touch screen, IMHO. I'd also remove the seating position from my "Cons" list. And I'm not concerned about the "stupid doors" problem. I played with getting out of the rear seat of the i3 in a normal parking lot situation, and it's not hard to step toward the front door in order to be able to close the rear door so that you can walk to the rear of the car.

At this point, I'm keeping the i3 (non-REx) on my short list for mid-2015, along with the Mercedes B Class EV and whatever Nissan comes up with by then. The Audi A3 E-Tron PHEV is interesting, but with less than 30 miles EV, I'm not really serious about it.

The screen shown below with an average energy economy of 2.2 mi/kWh was after I drove a fast street lap after resetting the meter. When I drove with economy in mind, I got something like 4.7 mi/kWh. I was expecting something over 5 mi/kWh with the car being fairly light.

On the bottom picture, that horizontal four part "reverse progress bar" is all that currently passes for an SOC meter on the i3. I envision people putting sticky numbers on the screen to mark approximate percentages of charge. :roll:

 

[cwerdna]

You guys in LA are really lucky to be able to get in and test drive. All the reports I'm seeing back from http://www.sfautoshow.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are i3 there is locked up so you can't sit inside and of course, there are no test drives. This is rather puzzling given the BEV and PHEV market the SF Bay Area is.

Hope BMW changes their mind for http://www.motortrendautoshows.com/sanjose/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[ELROY]

I recorded a 0-60mph run. (2nd part of video). You can see from the time the power bar moves, till you see 59mph flash, it seems to be 7 seconds flat, or quicker.

Should have turned the darn radio off, because the electric motor is kind of cool sounding.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhidVwQewA4[/youtube]

Also, here is a better picture of what it looks like inside of the battery pack:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Wow. Very fast indeed.

 

[Valdemar]

There is plenty of pull once you get moving, and unlike in the Leaf it feels as it is building up as you accelerate.

 

[JeremyW]

A good video of a Leaf driver attempting to only use 25kW

 

[surfingslovak]

A good video of a Leaf driver attempting to only use 25kW

Jeremy, this is a good idea, but it does not consider the fact that the REx is supplemented by battery power. Additionally, this report does not consider the fact that the i3 is about 17% lighter, which would translate to proportionally higher speeds on inclines. About 20% improvement on hills is not a huge difference, but a significant improvement nonetheless.

According to an interview with Andreas Feist, head of i3 vehicle development, and this test drive report, the US version will not allow the REx to engage before the SOC reaches 6.5%. Once the SOC has declined to 3%, a critically low level, the REx will recharge the battery. Otherwise, it won't. This will give the US version about a 0.65 kWh buffer to supplement the REx. While that's plenty for accelerations, it's not enough to traverse more than 500 feet of altitude difference.

Yes, this is a very slim operating margin, and while the speed and performance won't be as bad as Paul Churchley has demonstrated in his video, courtesy of the significantly lower weight, there is no denying that the US version of the i3 will not be a practical replacement for a Volt. The REx in conjunction with 6% battery SOC will really be just enough to avoid the tow truck or make it to the next charging station. It would appear that the driving experience, especially in hilly areas, won't be very pleasant in range-extended mode.

This, of course, won't be the case in Europe, where the REx can be switched on at or below 75% SOC according to the most recent reports. That should allow the i3 to go on a cross-country trip, if one is willing to refuel frequently. The US version will be much more limited, courtesy of the low reserve SOC. This is a very unfortunate limitation, which wastes the potential of this feature.

With a slightly larger tank, say 5 gallons instead of 2.37, and a slightly higher maximum REx output power, say 30 kW, and a minimum battery SOC of 20%, the i3 would be a potent and more efficient Volt competitor. I'm still considering it, mainly because of a number of innovations and the strong regen, but I too find the castrated REx implementation unappealing. I plan to blog about this, since the projected performance limitations in REx mode really killed my enthusiasm for what I thought is going to be one of the defining features of the i3.

 

[Berlino]

Is BMW doing anything to help build CCS/SAE infrastructure for their i3's in North America?

 

[surfingslovak]

Is BMW doing anything to help build CCS/SAE infrastructure for their i3's in North America?

Nothing has been announced yet, I believe, but I have seen reports of significant investment in CCS along important routes in Germany. I would expect that BMW will show commitment to this quick charging format in North America as well. The limited REx usefulness indicates that they intended the i3 to be an electric car, and not a hybrid. Consequently, charging infrastructure will be important; it's going to be one of the key catalysts for market acceptance of the i3.