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TomT said:
I drove the i3 twice on Friday...
Any more of a review? Was everyone only driving i3s without the range extender? I wonder how loud the extender is.
I'm also curious how small the back seat feels. Does the car overall feel more like a LEAF or a Spark EV?

Regarding SOC%, I wish a manufacturer would use consistent measurements. In the LEAF, it reports miles/kwh, SOC% and SOC bars. What I'd rather see is kWh remaining so that I easily use the miles/kwh to see how many miles are left. Or maybe a range left based on a miles/kwh that I enter rather than it guessing. Tesla uses the inverse, wh/mi.
 
The ones available to drive both times when I was there where the EV-only version, no Rex. I wish there had been a Rex as I have many of the same questions... I climbed in the back seat once and it felt more restrictive than the Leaf... I'd place it midway between a Leaf and a Spark...

dm33 said:
Any more of a review? Was everyone only driving i3s without the range extender? I wonder how loud the extender is.
I'm also curious how small the back seat feels. Does the car overall feel more like a LEAF or a Spark EV?
 
TomT said:
Without accurate look-ahead elevation change information, DTE meters will never be very accurate for the majority of drivers and this is something that critically needs to be included.
DTE can never be accurate in my case. From my house I can head onto the close by 70mph speed limit expressway and get 3.5mi/kwh at 75-80 or head onto quiet back roads with no lights and get 5.2mi/kwh. Not reasonable to expect the car to figure this out on its own.
 
dm33 said:
TomT said:
I drove the i3 twice on Friday...
Any more of a review? Was everyone only driving i3s without the range extender? I wonder how loud the extender is. I'm also curious how small the back seat feels. Does the car overall feel more like a LEAF or a Spark EV?

There were no REx versions there. The REx cars won't be available to test drive until after the new year and probably won't be available for sale till February or March and European customers that ordered then are waiting till then. It will be available for the US launch though, which should happen in April.

I did a long review with lots of pics if interested:

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-la-auto-show-driving-impressions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Okay, here are some thoughts from my i3 drive last Thursday.

All of the cars BMW has here in the US for test drives are the top of the line full leather, "Tera" package in Solar Orange, full BEV, no range extender, fully loaded cars. They are Euro pre-production cars that have been modified with US CCS charging hardware and software and Nav mapping. The side mirrors are Euro spec, meaning that they have a concave design that allows wider side vision, but have a disconcerting "wavy" look to US drivers. These mirrors won't be found on US production cars.

Overall, I liked the acceleration and the light and quick handling. I wasn't thrilled with the compulsory strong off-throttle regen and the lack of "creep" at low speeds, and I didn't like the upright seating position for sporty driving. Seeing the car on the road, I'm less impressed with the exterior appearance than I was before, and I've changed my mind from liking the Solar Orange color scheme to really disliking it. I'd go with a dark gray to reduce the contrast with the car's many black accents.

Since I tend to get wordy, I'll start with some Pros, Cons and Personal Preferences. Keep in mind that I like sports cars and I'm looking for a sporty driving experience and good handling. Some of the things I like most about EVs are the immediate torque and smoothness of the driving experience. Convenience and comfort come close seconds for me, followed closely by economy and efficiency.

Pro:
++ Super quick, grin inducing, OMG, right now! acceleration that keeps building. We never got tire squeal on takeoff because BMW has built in some ramp-up from a standing start, but the car quickly gets up to speed and that power keeps building til you have to back off in traffic because you ran out of room. If the car is already moving at any speed at all, punch it and it takes off like a scalded duck. Nipping in and out of traffic would be easy with this car, if that's your cup of tea.
++ Nimble, quick, responsive steering.
++ Very quiet. No drive line whine or any other noises that I heard. The drive line whine on my 2013 LEAF is much louder by comparison.
++ Impressively long front seat track, works well for those with long legs.
++ Good head room, especially in front.
++ Very roomy and open-feeling interior for such a small car.

Con:
-- Very strong regen braking combined with a difficult-to-feel neutral band for coasting and no low speed "creep". Regen strength is non-adjustable, non-defeatable. Note that these are seen as positives by some EV drivers. See discussion below.
-- Odd exterior design. It has grown on me, but I must admit that I'm not drawn to the looks of the car. (And this is coming from a LEAF driver! LOL)
-- The lack of any on board SOC percent display. All the car has is a moving "progress bar" that diminishes as you use up the charge, and a range estimate (GOM) that is enhanced by the inclusion of elevation into the NAV calculations. (BMW is listening to customers and who knows, an SOC % display may be considered). SOC% is displayed on the remote smart phone app.
-- A too minimal dashboard array. While there are two tablet-type screens, I felt a lack of immediate EV information. Especially coming from the LEAF, I missed having the ability to display current and average energy economy, battery temperature range, and numeric kw usage and ancillary system power usage at the same time. Part of this impression might change if I had time to learn the i-Drive system and delve into some of the available displays on the center screen. But some of this information may just not be available at all in the BMW. But with the LEAF, these info screens are often just a push button away, while I find the BMW's i-Drive system daunting and distracting to scroll through while driving.
-- Seating position is too upright and high-feeling, even compared with LEAF. Seating position doesn't encourage sporty driving.
--Quirky door design, with front seat belts attached to the leading edges of the rear doors, requiring front seat passengers to open their doors and unbuckle to let rear seat passengers get out. With rear-hinged rear doors, if all passengers got out at the same time in a tight parking lot, well, think about it...
-- Rear seating limited to two people.
-- Rear side windows are fixed, do not open or tilt open at all.

Personal Preference, Lifestyle Choices:
== You could put the throttle mapping and regen braking in this category, if you want
== No roof rack provision and no way to attach a bike rack. When asked, a BMW rep said "It's a city car." :roll:
== Interior design is minimal, Scandinavian-Modern. Interior colors are keyed to the "World" option that you choose. There is only one full leather interior color, and only one color scheme in the part-leather, part-fabric interior choices.


I was with a group of ardent, loyal BMW EV fans, most of whom had driven the original MiniE for two years and the ActiveE for over a year. Almost all of them were really happy with their drive experiences with the i3 and they are anxious to be able to order theirs, as long as the car fits their needs in terms of size and practicality. So I want to make sure to mention that the i3 appeals strongly to the group of customers who have the most experience with BMW EV products, and almost all of them seemed to see the i3 as a very appealing product. I think that this is important, because due to the strong regen and throttle mapping, the i3 is car that comes with a longer learning curve than any other EV in my experience, and so, more than with most other cars, the impressions gained from brief test drives may mislead potential customers into thinking that the car is not for them. I think that this may turn out to be a problem for BMW as they try to sell the i3 to the more mainstream customers after brief test drives at dealerships.

All of these current BMW EV customers are big fans of strong regen braking which allows one pedal driving, and also of zero low speed "creep". BMW has designed the strong regen and throttle response of the i3 exactly as this group of EV pioneers wanted them to, and the BMW staff at the meeting I attended said that this was one of things that BMW heard loud and clear from this group of customers. BMW is proud of the regen and throttle mapping and they point to it as one of many things about the i3 that set it apart from competitors. I even heard one customer mention that he wants the regen even stronger, and Tom Moloughney wrote that he thinks the regen on the i3 is a bit weaker than it is on the ActiveE. Everyone I spoke to said that it takes a very short time to learn to drive a BMW EV smoothly, and that none of them would ever want to go back to weaker regen and two pedal driving. They also like the lack of low speed "creep".

My driving impression was that it was too difficult to find the right throttle angle or band to let the car "coast" or "glide". Though I was very focused on this point while I was driving, there was no tactile feedback to tell me that the drive train was disengaged so that the car was coasting. I was either accelerating or braking fairly strongly at all times, unless I took great care with how much pressure I used on the throttle or I looked down at the car's display screen to see the neutral point in the curve of power use/regen, which is distracting to do. The lack of "creep" at low speeds was also bothersome to me. I found that I would lift my foot as I approached a red light, decelerate too strongly and almost come to a stop two car lengths before the limit line, and then need to apply throttle again, against fairly strong spring tension, to speed up enough to stop the car where I had intended to. At right turns on red lights, the lack of creep meant that I had to press the throttle against that same strong spring tension to be able to move forward slowly enough to see oncoming traffic to my left before making my right turn, but not jump out into the intersection before I was ready. Some time behind the wheel would eliminate most of these concerns, because I would learn to wait longer to lift as I approach a red light, and I would become more confident in finding the right amount of throttle pressure for low speed "creeping", but I have to say, these things made me walk away from the i3 less enthusiastic than when I started driving it.
 
Since most vehicle nav systems now know and display the speed limit for most-all roads, it is not that far fetched actually. Couple that with the nav traffic data on the actual speeds, and you could do a fairly good job if you include look-ahead elevation changes... But no, it will never be perfect!

dm33 said:
TomT said:
Without accurate look-ahead elevation change information, DTE meters will never be very accurate for the majority of drivers and this is something that critically needs to be included.
DTE can never be accurate in my case. From my house I can head onto the close by 70mph speed limit expressway and get 3.5mi/kwh at 75-80 or head onto quiet back roads with no lights and get 5.2mi/kwh. Not reasonable to expect the car to figure this out on its own.
 
I would agree with the majority of what you wrote except that I loved the aggressive regen and the absence of creep. Creep and weak regen in the Leaf are two of my least favorite driving dynamics... Oh, and I disliked the instrumentation in the i3... I forgot to mention that second one I drove had what very much sounded like a bad wheel bearing noise from the front... The BMW guy had no answer for that, but I'll bet you don't see it on the line tomorrow...

Boomer23 said:
Okay, here are some thoughts from my i3 drive last Thursday.
 
We had a stationery model visit the Scottsdale dealership this weekend - in advance of our (somewhat lame) Auto Show that's scheduled for Thanksgiving - and I got to sit in the car. I've had my eye on this car for quite some time since the timing will be perfect to replace my LEAF, and my "other car" is a BMW (oh, and yes, I cannot afford a Tesla). I was afraid that we wouldn't get to touch the car, but it was open and unlocked and we got to hang out in it for quite some time. The salespeople didn't know a thing about it (same as when I first shopped for the LEAF), but it sounds like they were taking actual reservations (or something akin to reservations). My salesperson was out for the weekend, so I'll learn more about that when he gets back tomorrow.

Personally, I actually like the look of the car - weird enough to stand out, but well designed enough to make sense and be relatively functional.

The backseat is not anything like the LEAF, and neither is the space in the hatch area. It does seem quite a bit smaller, but it was pretty comfortable. The material and finishes are head and shoulders over the LEAF (to be expected at the price point). I'm sure once it switches on, there will be a million quirks and new things to get used to - but I've never had a new car where there wasn't some learning curve.
 
Someone commented that for families with small children i3 is not an option. The suicide doors essentially rule it out - since it is very difficult to put a child in the car (or take out) when parked in our usually tight parking spaces.

Any comments on this ?
 
I can comment on the door setup. I use to have a 2008 honda element. for anyone interested in how an I3 would do with kids and rear seat passengers, if you have a chance drive a 2007 or older honda Element. Exact same door setup. I can say its a PITA. you pull into a spot between 2 cars, even a generous spot, and when both the front door and rear door are opened you are trapped.
You must then move forawrd towards the front door and close the rear door , then close the front door.

Also the 2007 element had the same seatblet setup with the drivers and passengers shoulder belt rretractor in the rear door. PITA everytime you let a rear passebnger out you must remove your belt or get a yank on the neck.

IN 2008 Honda integrated the seatbelt in the seat convertible style eliminating some of the issues. BMW would have been way better off copying that type of seatbelt/seat design.
 
evnow said:
Someone commented that for families with small children i3 is not an option. The suicide doors essentially rule it out - since it is very difficult to put a child in the car (or take out) when parked in our usually tight parking spaces.

Any comments on this ?

Yeah, I really don't think anything but the Rav4 EV, Leaf and Tesla will work if you have car seats.
 
pkulak said:
evnow said:
Someone commented that for families with small children i3 is not an option. The suicide doors essentially rule it out - since it is very difficult to put a child in the car (or take out) when parked in our usually tight parking spaces.

Any comments on this ?

Yeah, I really don't think anything but the Rav4 EV, Leaf and Tesla will work if you have car seats.

I'd say that's a bit of an overstatement. I think the issue is only a problem in tight parking situations. The lack of a B pillar does allow reasonable access to a kid seat that is already installed in the back seat.

Then again, the lack of a center rear seat position puts your kids at the outboard seating spots, which is less safe than the center. Consider also that in a post-crash situation, if the front door is blocked from opening, then so is the rear door.
 
kmp647 said:
you pull into a spot between 2 cars, even a generous spot, and when both the front door and rear door are opened you are trapped.
You must then move forawrd towards the front door and close the rear door , then close the front door.

This is what I've been trying to imagine.

Once I get the child out - I'd have to go towards the still open front door - with the child in my arms and squeeze into the front door opening and somehow close the rear door. This is going to be very difficult in most places (including may be even my home).

I think BMW got carried away with their "city car" objective and made it impractical for a large section of US population that might be interested in this car (well to do suburban families).
 
evnow said:
Someone commented that for families with small children i3 is not an option. The suicide doors essentially rule it out - since it is very difficult to put a child in the car (or take out) when parked in our usually tight parking spaces.

Any comments on this ?

It's hard for me to really comment without actually trying it out. I would think that in a vast majority of instances, it's not going to be any problem. However I can see cases (like a really tight parking spot) if you have to get a child seat out where it could be and you would need to find a different parking spot. It won't be any issue with kids that are big enough to get out of the car themselves though.
 
TomMoloughney said:
It's hard for me to really comment without actually trying it out. I would think that in a vast majority of instances, it's not going to be any problem. However I can see cases (like a really tight parking spot) if you have to get a child seat out where it could be and you would need to find a different parking spot. It won't be any issue with kids that are big enough to get out of the car themselves though.
I wasn't thinking about infant seats - just picking up toddlers from the seat, squeezing into front door opening in order to close the rear door.

Not sure about parking spaces in NJ, even in our suburbs the spaces are really small.
 
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