Official BMW i3 thread

[Valdemar]

I'm curious what percentage of i3 and other SAE Combo equipped car buyers would have walked away had they realized their QC port will be mostly useless for quite some time.

SAE CCS sites are springing up faster than I thought possible. There are two in the Bay Area, and the count in SoCal seems to be going up every month.

That may be a bit too optimistic. Speaking of LA I see one operational in Hermosa beach that just recently opened after being worked on for months and another under construction in West Hollywood. There are 3 more down south in Irvine that has been around for a while. But yes, i3's range extender and deep pockets do seem to work well together.

 

[TomT]

Until BMW modifies the current U.S. Rex programming so that the battery does not have to be nearly completely depleted before it will start or fits the vehicle with a more powerful Rex, I consider it a nonstarter...

But yes, i3's range extender and deep pockets do seem to work well together.

 

[Valdemar]

Until BMW modifies the current U.S. Rex programming so that the battery does not have to be nearly completely depleted before it will start or fits the vehicle with a more powerful Rex, I consider it a nonstarter...

But yes, i3's range extender and deep pockets do seem to work well together.

I consider it a non-starter because of the sticker. For 40+ grand I'd rather get a 328d xDrive wagon and be done with it.

 

[KJD]

The 2 gallon gas tank pretty much did it for me. If it had an 8 gallon tank it would be a good Volt competitor.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Someone I know here in Dallas who has been talking to me about leasing a Leaf for quite sometime now, finally after intense negotiations was about to sign but pulled back at the last minute (literally last minute.. at 10 pm) because he thought the dealer is a pulling a fast one at the last minute on the disposition charges which increased his total cost of ownership by $400. I applauded him for walking out..

.. and then this is what he did: He walks into a BMW dealer and buys (not lease) an i3 without ReX but with QC port for an OTD price of (I believe) $43K. He of course agrees the car is overpriced, the doors are funky, back seats and trunk are small and the range is the same as the Leaf, but apparently bought it for the driving experience. I reminded him that there are literally no QC here in this area but he is hoping that will change.

It is amazing that someone who was upset that they got shortchanged for $400, went and spent literally $15K more for a lesser car (IMHO). It is strange how human minds work..

 

[BestPal]

It is amazing that someone who was upset that they got shortchanged for $400, went and spent literally $15K more for a lesser car (IMHO). It is strange how human minds work..

I don't think that's strange at all. The $400 was obviously the last drop. The guy was clearly leaning towards the beemer and the "hidden" $400 was an excuse to walk out. Sure, you can't justify that when presented with the extra $15K cash out of pocket but that's how he managed to talk himself out of RATIONAL choice that would be the Leaf to an IMHO BETTER choice of the i3.
Having driven the i3 for two days now, it is not a lesser car by any measure except the shocker sticker price. Matter of fact, it feels far superior to the Leaf in almost every aspect! Sure, the trunk is smaller but both cars will do just fine for your day-to-day needs. But you won't take either one on a family road trip. So the trunk space is irrelevant. If money is no object i'd take the i3. If he wants the driving experience and ready to pay for it - it was the right choice for the guy.
Probably better than 3 years of regret that he didn't get it. IMHO ) the i3 is a FUN FUN car

 

[TonyWilliams]

BTW what's up with the DC plug on i3? Dealer told me you can use Level 3's in the area. Dealer is obviously clueless. Is there some sort of adapter one could use?

Sorry, no adaptor, nor will there likely be.

The international DC fast charging system standards IEC 61851-23 gives the requirements for "DC chargers" and provides the general requirements for the control communication between a DC fast charger and an EV.

IEC 62851-24 defines digital communication between a DC fast charger and an EV.


1) CHAdeMO (System A)

2) GB/T (B)

3) COMBO1 by the US and COMBO2 by Germany (C)

4) Tesla Supercharger (not recognized by IEC)



USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "L3"


1. SAE CCS Combo1, or "J1772 DC" - approximately 23 in the USA (and worldwide)
http://standards.sae.org/j1772_201210/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible include:

*GM Spark EV - less than 1000 cars
*BMW i3 - less than 1000 cars
*VW eGolf (coming 2014)



2. CHAdeMO - 3800 worldwide, 700 in the USA, adding about 1 per day
http://www.chademo.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 60,000 in the USA and over 140,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2015)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Citroën Berlingo - not sold in USA
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2015)
*Mitsubishi Fuso Canter truck
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Peugeot Partner - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV (coming Oct 2014)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla except Roadster with Tesla supplied adaptor



3. Supercharger - 200 worldwide, 120 stations in the USA, each with 4-8 stalls, growing fast
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 135kW eventually, currently limited at some sites to 120kW
EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only, except Roadster - 55,000 worldwide


*******

Neither GB/T and CCS-Combo2 are offered outside of China and Europe respectively

 

[Berlino]

The first dual-standard DCQC went online in Quebec yesterday. http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/55291" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Of the other ones to be installed this year, one is literally just 20 yards from a BMW dealer. However, the dealer doesn't offer the i3.

 

[GRA]

All right! The Green Lots/Sun Trail CHAdeMO in Pt. Reyes Station has just had a CCS added. Not sure if they replaced the CHAdeMO only QC, or added a separate CCS. This is one of the most obvious and needed places for QCs in the Bay Area. In addition, someone listed a 'coming soon' dual mode QC at Stevens Creek Kia in San Jose, and although still taped off, the photo shows it's definitely there and a dual-mode ABB. Compared to the CHAdeMO rollout in the Bay Area, CCS is hopping along. There's already access to West Marin and Hwy 1 north to Bodega Bay, the wine country via Benicia, Sacramento and points east via I-80, and San Jose north up 101 a far as Belmont so people can do the SJ-SF drive. In addition there are now 7 open and one coming soon sites in SoCal, and one of the open sites has two QCs of each standard. While I dislike posting 'coming soon' sites on Plugshare, it's a Trader Joe's on Sunset Blvd. in L.A. and being put in by eVgo, so I think it's almost certainly real.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... being put in by eVgo, so I think it's almost certainly real.

At least 200 over 4 years is a "done deal".

 

[GRA]

... being put in by eVgo, so I think it's almost certainly real.

At least 200 over 4 years is a "done deal".

Yes, I know, I was referring to this site specifically.

 

[TomT]

One problem I have is that the highest level trim version looks inside like the helm of a boat I built in my garage... What were they thinking with that wood and how it is applied?!

Having driven the i3 for two days now, it is not a lesser car by any measure except the shocker sticker price.

 

[ELROY]

... being put in by eVgo, so I think it's almost certainly real.

At least 200 over 4 years is a "done deal".

I went to two quick charge locations in my LEAF today. Both of them are already being retrofitted with DC combo chargers. They broke through the concrete next to the Chademo chargers, and installed a wooden cover on it for now. EVGO rep said they are going to installing the combo chargers at many of the current EvGo Freedom stations.

 

[Valdemar]

... being put in by eVgo, so I think it's almost certainly real.

At least 200 over 4 years is a "done deal".

I went to two quick charge locations in my LEAF today. Both of them are already being retrofitted with DC combo chargers. They broke through the concrete next to the Chademo chargers, and installed a wooden cover on it for now. EVGO rep said they are going to installing the combo chargers at many of the current EvGo Freedom stations.

From talking to an evGo installer I understand that some of these locations will be set up for shared power, which means slower charging for both Chademo and combo. Less than ideal.

 

[GRA]

Finally saw my first i3 yesterday, although only from a long (ca. 150 yds) block away. It was making a left turn from a side street ahead of me onto the same direction I was heading, and the mental I.D. process went something like this:

"H'mm, what's that strange looking car up there. Tall, skinny 5-door hatchback . . . really odd proportions and really skinny tires . . . weird kink in the beltline at the rear wind . . :!: An i3!"

It's just as ugly as I thought, and I only saw the right side and rear I doubt it will improve on closer inspection. I think the Soul and to a lesser extent the e-Golf will eat this thing's lunch in sales.

 

[Boomer23]

Some BMW dealers are offering a three day test drive for the i3, and I got ahold of one through Shelly BMW in Buena Park, CA. I just returned it yesterday, and I had a ball with it. I got the base ("Mega") trim level with the range extender and the 20 inch wheels replacing the stock 19 inchers.

I'll try to be brief.

What's important to me:
+ This is a little sports car disguised as a city runabout. A torquey motor that has about 60% more horsepower than the LEAF's motor (yes, I know that torque is different from horsepower), in a car that weighs 500 pounds less than a LEAF means great acceleration when you push it. Rear wheel drive and BMW's traction control puts the power on the road instead of spinning the front tires like the RAV and the Mercedes do. The skinny tires grip like mad on high speed curves, at least on dry pavement. I had a blast with this car on some twisty roads, and this is the one reason I'm considering the car over the competition to replace my LEAF next June. Power off the line is muted a bit, I assume on purpose by BMW for durability or other reasons, but once you're away, the power builds and builds and it falls off less than in the LEAF after 40 mph or so.

Other stuff:
- Undeafeatable strong regen on the e-pedal. Off-putting at first but easily learned and gotten used to. There are both pro and con safety arguments to be made.
- Very informally, and based solely on the in-car mi/kWh displays, I found the BMW to be more energy efficient than the LEAF on surface streets, and less efficient than the LEAF at freeway speeds.
- I got about 72 miles of range with my usual driving style before the range extender kicked in, compared with the 80-ish range I'm used to with my LEAF.
- Performance with the range extender running was not noticeably worse than on full BEV. This includes a spot of racing up a steep hill. Keep in mind, though, that multiple owners have reported significant reduction in performance on LONG uphill grades while in range extender mode.
- It's a small car, a foot and a half shorter than a LEAF, and has a 5 inch shorter wheelbase. This has several effects. The short wheelbase and light weight make the car handle well in the curves, but make it bob and rock more easily on uneven pavement. Interior room is commendably good for four people, and front seat travel is long enough that I didn't even have the seat all the way back, but fore-aft room in the rear is tight, so placement of two kiddie seats back there is more challenging than in the LEAF, and rear knee room is tight.
- The "coach" suicide rear doors are a mixed blessing. They make for an airy, open interior, but if you're parked next to another car, there are logistical issues.
- fit and finish and material quality were very good IMHO. I happen to like the choice of materials BMW used, and I like the interior and exterior styling. This is a polarizing design, and I happen to like risky styling sometimes, and this is one of those cars where the unusual trumps the bland, to my way of thinking. Looks are a matter of taste, so I won't debate styling here. I know and I get that most people think the car is ugly, especially in photos. I'll say that it looks better in person, and the closer the better, but if you hate it, I get it and you'll get no argument from me. Apparently, though, the level of interest from folks on the street is so high that drivers are constantly in conversations with passers-by, and most of the reaction is positive.

If you're at all interested, or just to see what I'm talking about, and if you like tight handling and strong power in a small car, try to take the car for a longish test drive that includes some opportunity to test the car's acceleration and handling in corners. After you get used to the strong regen, which will take a while, you'll probably be grinning pretty wide at the end of the drive.

 

[TomT]

Yeah, it is funny. I've got three different offers from three different dealers... I haven't had a chance to take any of them up on it yet, though...

Some BMW dealers are offering a three day test drive for the i3

 

[cwerdna]

Yeah, it is funny. I've got three different offers from three different dealers... I haven't had a chance to take any of them up on it yet, though...

Some BMW dealers are offering a three day test drive for the i3

Heh... that's better than the reception the guy at http://slickdeals.net/f/210461-official-auto-car-ride-drive-events?v=1&p=70676100#post70676100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; got. Stevens Creek BMW that he mentioned happens to be the closest BMW dealer to me...

I might try once I have some more time.

 

[ELROY]

Finally saw my first i3 yesterday, although only from a long (ca. 150 yds) block away. It was making a left turn from a side street ahead of me onto the same direction I was heading, and the mental I.D. process went something like this:

"H'mm, what's that strange looking car up there. Tall, skinny 5-door hatchback . . . really odd proportions and really skinny tires . . . weird kink in the beltline at the rear wind . . :!: An i3!"

It's just as ugly as I thought, and I only saw the right side and rear I doubt it will improve on closer inspection. I think the Soul and to a lesser extent the e-Golf will eat this thing's lunch in sales.

I used to say the same thing. The two tone color slabs make the rear look really skinny and tall.
I just saw a Arravanni Grey i3 though. 100% better looking. The hood, rear bumper, and sides match
Much better in the nearly monochromatic paint scheme. Check it out and let me know what you think, or go
On the BMW website and build one in that color configuration. It's amazing the difference color makes.

 

[BestPal]

I wholeheartedly agree: it looks really nice (and even sexy IMHO) in two-tone dark grey and black and it looks much better in person. Although the pumpkin color (that I had for the 3-day test drive) is a bit too... rich for me.

Most importantly, BMW got the recipe just right:
1. 70-75 mile electric + range extender makes it a practical electric one-car ownership (also makes Level 3 charging irrelevant!! I for one can do without annoying planning your extended range trips around Level 3 charging and waiting and failed Level 3 stations, and 2 cars in line in front of you) Yes, please! Make it go away. 99% of my commute is covered by electricity, the rest, when I do take extended trips, I'm fine with burning a bit of gas to avoid all the trouble. I'm not a fundamentalist here ) + I would NOT need my second car. Thank you BMW, good thinking!

2. Regen is awesome. After three days, I fail to understand why my Leaf tapers off regen as I get closer to stopping. CLEARLY I'm trying to stop, and I do that many a time during my commute, so car, please help me?! Use the kinetic energy instead of giving it away to heat. LOVE the regen of the BMW!! One pedal driving (for the most part) takes only a couple of hours to get used to.

The only area that BMW failed at is those skinny tires. Sure, it handles OK but it's not a proper BMW. Before my leaf I drove BMW's for years (a 328i and later a 530i) - both of my bimmers were confidence inspiring in corners. i3 isn't! It's not BAD, it's not worse than the Leaf in corners (which is not bad at all!)! but it's not what I'd expect when I get behind the wheel with the BMW badge on it and have paid the price. So, dress the i3 in proper shoes and it would make the car very sporty. As it sits now, it's only sporty in a straight line and tries hard not to kill you in high speed corners, admittedly doing a pretty good job, but not up to my BMW experience, standards and expectations.

When I'm looking for my next electric car when the lease is up on my Leaf in 2016, I will most certainly consider the i3 as it really is a FUN car but not a practical choice at today's price. I can only hope that Nissan will offer a range extender as a $2-3K option - I'd take that vs. double the battery capacity for the same price.
Because I'd hardly ever use the extra range but I need that for airport trips and other very occasional trips, why carry the extra weight all the time? A 24kwh nissan battery weights ~600lb, when BMW range extender weights only ~260lb; also, what if you need just a bit more range again, say 160 vs. 150 miles on that one trip, that bigger battery that you won't use most of the time anyway will still not allow you to have an easy, stress-free enjoyable trip. Extender please!
Again, I hope Nissan learns the BMW recipe and cooks up the base Gen II Leaf S at current $28K or less with a $2-3K range extender option, that would be awesome, that would be my next car... provided they include proper regen, of course, the one that makes sense ))