Non-dedicated 15A circuit out to garage - usable?

[Sergiov]

I am looking to lease a Leaf, but have an issue with the circuit out to the garage where it will be kept that I'd like you all to opine on.

There is a single 15-amp breaker in the electrical panel of my basement that supplies power to a 2-car detached garage about 40' away. That single breaker supports 2 garage lights, and 2 garage door openers (1/2hp I believe). Nissan specifies that a 15-amp dedicated circuit is required for L1 charging. This setup obviously doesn't qualify as dedicated. I am not sure what the gauge of the wire for the feed is, and believe it was run through some sort of buried pipe or conduit.

So -- the question is, would this setup be usable at all for L1 charging until the ground thaws here in Chicago and I can upgrade my wiring out to the garage to support L2, or would I be tripping breakers constantly (or creating a safety hazard).

Thanks!

 

[Reddy]

I have used a similar circuit and it will "work". However, I specifically charge for only a few hours each night and I don't use the other things on the circuit during these hours. I specifically close my garage door, and then plug in. I also use the same circuit for high power use (electric saw, drills, electric lawn mower, weed eater, etc.), but again, not at the same time. You just need to be smart about it. One thing that won't work, is a refrigerator, heater, or other device that turns on/off throughout the night. Also, remember to make sure the plugs are good and tight and the wiring is capable of handling 12 amps for upwards of 10-12 hours straight. Poor wiring can lead to fires as has been reported in previous threads on MNL.

More importantly, only using L1 in the winter in your area will mean that you can't drive more than 20-40 mi per day depending upon the temps. If that's acceptable, then go for it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Suggest you replace the lights with LEDs and make sure all of the connections in the circuit are sound, no "stabbed" outlets. Replace the outlet you are plugging into with a top grade device.

 

[smkettner]

Marginal at best. Where is the electric panel? Probably worth getting 240 volts pulled to where you need it.

Since it is shared I would suggest verifying EVERY outlet on circuit is upgraded to top grade clamp type outlets not just the last in the string.

 

[Graycenphil]

I agree with all of the above. Especially about running a 240 line out to the garage.

That said, I also had a similar situation. One 15 amp line which ran the outlets in the garage and two door openers. I charged my new Leaf for 2 or 3 weeks until I got my 240 volt EVSE set up. Never had a problem, and I'm pretty sure that included opening the garage door while the car was charging.

The 240 charging is much better. Hopefully you can pull additional wires through your conduit without too much trouble or expense.

 

[davewill]

The first time you charge, be sure to check every few minutes for signs of heating at each of the outlets. Use one of the point and shoot thermometers (or an IR camera if you access to one) If you can identify the outlet that is being fed FIRST try to use that one. The less junction points the better.

If you're unhandy with electrical work, go ahead and pay an electrician for an hour to come out and inspect the wiring, and repair/replace any questionable outlets. He can give you a quote on running the new circuit to the garage while he's there, so you know what you're looking at. I'd think you'd want to run 60-100a 240v out to a subpanel, then wire the garage and your EVSE from that.

 

[Sergiov]

Thanks all -- appreciate your advice...

 

[Elephanthead]

If there is buried conduit you might be able to pull more or better wires. Most electricians will give a free estimate. Even if you never use it future buyers will value a more useable garage.

 

[Publius]

Your situation sounds a lot like mine when I moved into a new house, only my garage is attached. My garage runs off of one 15 amp breaker (2 garage doors, 1 light, and anything else I want to plug in, which in my case is a battery operated lawn mower and snow blower, but also occasionally a leaf blower or vacuum), which is also shared with a couple outlets in my kitchen. I did not have a problem charging my car unless I tried to run my Keurig on one of those outlets while charging. That being said, as others have have already mentioned, I didn't like having to worry about tripping the circuit or worse, and charging on Level 1 is not ideal for the cold winter months. I found that it reduced the effectiveness of preheating (no matter how long I preheated the car never got as warm as on Level 2), and I often couldn't get fully charged before I had to leave the next day. It never proved to be a problem for me because my commute is 20-30 miles, but I always felt as if I was playing catch up. A Level 2 is worth it for the peace of mind and the practicality. I doubt you'll be happy leasing a car for 2-3 years and just charging on Level 1.

 

[cgaydos]

We have two LEAFs and use a 240V EVSE when possible, but use the L1 EVSE that came with the car when we need to charge both at once. The circuit is 15A and is shared with two garage doors and garage lights. The house is 20 years old which means that it has good wiring, modern circuit breakers, and there has never been a problem. I did find that we could not run the L1 EVSE at the same time as a 1500w pond heater from the same circuit (breaker tripped), which was not a surprise, but we can run it at the same time as a few strings of Christmas lights.

That said, if you have an older house with older wiring you should be more cautious and follow the advice above about overheating. (Our previous house was built in 1969 with aluminum wiring and based on a number of problems we had there I wouldn't trust it in the same situation.)

In addition, the comments above about whether L1 by itself is sufficient are right on. Even if you drive the car only for the daily commute, winter temperatures may mean that you need more than L1. Furthermore, as we found when we got the first LEAF, once you get the car you'll want to use it for as many trips as possible, and L2 gives you much more flexibility in that regard. In fact, I just bought a used EVSEupgrade and will be installing a dedicated 30A circuit for it in the garage so that we can charge both LEAFs at L2 at the same time.

 

[davewill]

Found something new, this thread brought it to mind:

http://poulsenhybrid.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EVSE Level 2 Residential Charging Station made simple!

Unlike competing brands the Poulsen Power EVSE Level 2 Residential Charging Station eliminates the expense of running a dedicated 240V line from the building’s power panel to the location. In the case of a detached garage digging and line drawing can run as high as $1,500 to $2,000.

The Poulsen Power EVSE Charging Station gives you Level 2 EVSE charging from the existing120V-20amp circuit serving the garage area, which is converted to 240V-20amp.

Installation can be done inexpensively by exchanging the single throw circuit breaker in your power panel with a double throw breaker. Once the 240V circuit breaker is installed, the electrician will mount the Poulsen Power EVSE charging station on your garage wall and you will have fast 240V Level 2 charging.

What happens to the lighting and power outlets in my garage after I convert my garage circuit to 240V? The patented Poulsen Power EVSE charging station contains a built-in 240V to 120V step down transformer for restoring the 120V supply to the garage light, power outlets and door opener.

I'm as skeptical on this as I'm sure you guys are, but there isn't any real reason it couldn't work for difficult cases. Particularly if the garage just has one light and a few plugs.

 

[ERG4ALL]

We charge half the year at 120V and the other half with a 240V EVSE. When using the 120V we do have to be mindful of where were going and when we can get back for several hours of charging. With the 240V, it is not an issue and if your LEAF has the 6.6kW charger, you will definitely want the EVSE to take advantage of the faster charge rate. With the 6.6 EVSE you can get as much a 30 miles on just an hour of charging.

 

[QueenBee]

Found something new, this thread brought it to mind:

http://poulsenhybrid.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EVSE Level 2 Residential Charging Station made simple!

Unlike competing brands the Poulsen Power EVSE Level 2 Residential Charging Station eliminates the expense of running a dedicated 240V line from the building’s power panel to the location. In the case of a detached garage digging and line drawing can run as high as $1,500 to $2,000.

The Poulsen Power EVSE Charging Station gives you Level 2 EVSE charging from the existing120V-20amp circuit serving the garage area, which is converted to 240V-20amp.

Installation can be done inexpensively by exchanging the single throw circuit breaker in your power panel with a double throw breaker. Once the 240V circuit breaker is installed, the electrician will mount the Poulsen Power EVSE charging station on your garage wall and you will have fast 240V Level 2 charging.

What happens to the lighting and power outlets in my garage after I convert my garage circuit to 240V? The patented Poulsen Power EVSE charging station contains a built-in 240V to 120V step down transformer for restoring the 120V supply to the garage light, power outlets and door opener.

I'm as skeptical on this as I'm sure you guys are, but there isn't any real reason it couldn't work for difficult cases. Particularly if the garage just has one light and a few plugs.

Have to admit that's a pretty nifty idea for someone who parks far away from power but already has a quality 120 volt/20 amp circuit...

 

[LeftieBiker]

That Poulsen station deserves a topic of its own. Brilliant idea, although in a garage like mine, with three or four circuits (but no other way to get 240 volts), it would make more sense to have a converter/transformer at the fuse or breaker box, rather than built into the EVSE. For single circuit garages, that thing would appear to be, at the risk of sounding dated, the bee's knees...

 

[GlennD]

The key word is non-dedicated. A home run can be converted to a 240V circuit not a shared circuit can not.

 

[smkettner]

I have a rental with a detached garage on a 20a 120v circuit. This Poulsenhybrid EVSE would work great if EV charging was requested by the tenant.
I doubt it will help the OP.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The key word is non-dedicated. A home run can be converted to a 240V circuit nut a shared circuit can not.

Er, "but" I assume"? Yes, but a converter at the garage panel could feed all the non-240 volt circuits with 120 volts. You send 240 to the garage, and then convert, say, half of it to 120. This is only worth considering for garages that can't get another line in easily.

 

[QueenBee]

The key word is non-dedicated. A home run can be converted to a 240V circuit nut a shared circuit can not.

Er, "but" I assume"? Yes, but a converter at the garage panel could feed all the non-240 volt circuits with 120 volts. You send 240 to the garage, and then convert, say, half of it to 120. This is only worth considering for garages that can't get another line in easily.

How many amps do you have going to your garage?

 

[GlennD]

you do not get something for nothing. the total watts remain the same. a 120V 20A circuit would be a 240V 10A circuit. It is 2400W either way.

The key word is non-dedicated. A home run can be converted to a 240V circuit not a shared circuit can not.

Er, "but" I assume"? Yes, but a converter at the garage panel could feed all the non-240 volt circuits with 120 volts. You send 240 to the garage, and then convert, say, half of it to 120. This is only worth considering for garages that can't get another line in easily.

 

[wwhitney]

you do not get something for nothing. the total watts remain the same. a 120V 20A circuit would be a 240V 10A circuit. It is 2400W either way.

I haven't looked at the product, but I'm pretty sure that the idea is to take a two conductor 120V circuit, change the breaker to 240V, and then use a 240V to 120V/240V transformer to reestablish the neutral at the load end for 120V loads. Doing this would double the available power.

Cheers, Wayne