No Heat - brrrr

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I really believe Li batteries are probably the best choice for a 12v battery in most areas, "except" areas that regularly get below zero F and occasionally get -20F, in those cases, I believe AGM is the better choice. Of course, there are areas that get -30F or colder, luckily my area isn't one of those, it has gotten that cold in MSP but only every decade or so. It regularly gets that cold in northern MN, the iron range and while -20F is REALLY cold, -30F is another level. At -20F it's fun to take a pot of hot boiling water and toss it into the air, it instantly turns into snow, before it hits the ground. I haven't tried it at -30F but it's probably even more show.
I'm a firm believer in AGM batteries for my area, at least for Leafs.
 
I remember -30F from my days as a paperboy and you are right it's a different level. At least it was for me.

Any, and I mean ANY, wind was excruciating at those temperatures. It felt like a knife on bare skin. And of coarse nothing could keep your toes or hands warm.

It didn't help that down was an exotic thing in my neck of the woods and all the other modern conveniences of cold weather gear were not available then either. BRRRRR.
 
Just and update, I haven't had this problem since, but the temps haven't been as cold. I need to wait for another sub -10ºF day to test.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks,

Bill
 
Seb34567 said:
.....In the same time the other leaf when have (2014 SV) lost power brakes and steering. The dash is illuminated like a Christmas tree. Really dangerous driving. It's now in a heated garage with the acc. battery unplugged and charging.

I did not try the third leaf (a 2012 SL) since at this point I'm becoming paranoid.

I think the heater problem is probably cause by the heat pump on the 2022. I'll check tomorrow if it's still not working. The car has 3000km...

I already had cold weather problems in 6 years of ownership with the 2014 who where fixed by maintenance on the ACC battery and a night stay in a heated garage.
I believe I just had the same thing that happened to your '14 happen to my '13 and man it was scary! A little back story.
It had been sitting for about a week at ~60% SOC and I charged and preheated it last night(8F) for a 12-mile trip, one way, it got up to 96%. Using the heater all the way and mostly 65mph I was hoping to get to my destination with at least 60% SOC, giving me more than enough to get home. On the way, it seemed very doggy and didn't want to coast in the least. SOC was dropping like a rock and by the time I had made the 12 mile trip my SOC was down to 48% :shock: I felt all the rims and two were quite warm(pass front and driver rear) and the other two ice-cold, I thought I could have had a couple stuck rotors as I hadn't really used the brakes much on my trip. Needless to say I was worried but after some searching and monkey business in the very cold temps I was able to plug in, albeit only at L1 and 13a. By the time I left it was up to 82% and I felt relieved. It seemed like a different car on the way home and I made it home with 60% SOC but I still plugged it in(16a L2) as it was going to get down to -12F.
I started the car up this morning(-8F out) for a short 2-mile trip and also preheated it a little. Drive there was fine but when I went to leave it was scary. It started fine but as soon as I put it in R the car seemed to speed up and the brakes didn't seem to work. Not really realizing what was going on I put the car in D and like R I hardly had brakes, I finally, while doing a couple of MPH in the parking lot held down the power button and the car turned OFF and abruptly stopped.
A little shaken and half blocking a drive lane I cautiously pushed the power button back on and the car made some sort of weird noises from under the hook, kind of a high pitched noise and moaning, all the dash lights were on also. Next, I put it in gear and it went forward but the brakes hardly seemed to work and they went about half? way to the floor, I again held down the power button and a few seconds the car shut off and came to an abrupt stop.
My first thought was 12v battery problems so I took my digital VOM out of the glove box, only to find it dead, probably due to the -8F temps. I took my handy 12v lithium jump starter out of the back and hooked it up the battery under the hood, well actually it was a chore to get the hood open as it had apparently frozen down and pulling the hood release didn't do anything, at first I tried pounding down on the hood to break the ice but no luck, finally I had to open the charge port door, then squeeze my frozen fingers under the hood and finally have someone else pull the hood release latch while I pulled up on the hood, finally the ice broke loose! So then I hooked up my 12v battery back, let it sit for a few minutes and tried restarting the car, same thing, all the dash lights came on and weird whining from under the hood as the car did it's startup routine, followed by moaning when I tried pushing down on the brakes, that went halfway to the floor.
The parking lot cleared out a little so I did some testing and discovered the brakes would eventually work but required a real hard push and had to go 1/2 way to the floor, the gas pedal did work normally so I took mostly side streets home, with my flashers on and not going over 20mph and would let off on the gas well before any stoplights so I could mostly drive through without having to push on the brakes. The hard part was when I did have to push on the brakes it took quite a long for them to start slowing the car as the pedal had to travel so far and I had to push so hard on the pedal.

When I got home I checked the battery with another VOM and it was 13.5v, so good and it doesn't really drop when booting up the car, I don't believe at all that this is a 12v battery issue but do currently have it hooked to a 14.5v battery charger. The car is also sitting in a 40 degree and rising garage as I turned on the electric heater in the garage. I'm going to first try warming up the car for a couple hours and keep the battery charger on while I try starting it, this should give an extra boost of 12v but again I don't feel it's a 12v battery issue. If this doesn't work I'll disconnect the battery for 20 minutes or so, like you did and see if that might clear out anything. I checked the brake fluid and it's well above MIN and I don't see anything obvious, looking under the hood.

Have you had any more such occurrences or read from anyone else with this issue? This is my 7th year with the Leaf although only probably get temps like this a handful of days/year. I wonder if it could be some water in the brake lines freezing? I've never changed the brake fluid or really done anything to the brakes.....
 
jjeff said:
Have you had any more such occurrences or read from anyone else with this issue? This is my 7th year with the Leaf although only probably get temps like this a handful of days/year. I wonder if it could be some water in the brake lines freezing? I've never changed the brake fluid or really done anything to the brakes.....
My first guess would be the brake booster having issues with the cold. Rather than pushing on the brake pedal as hard as possible, how about pumping the brakes to see if that builds the pressure to give you back the braking the power? With the continued cold temperatures, you might have a chance to try it again if it is acting weird.
My second guess would be moisture in the brake lines freezing the caliper pistons or ice on the outside freezing somewhere in the braking system where it can hinder the brake friction.

I've not had this happen to my Leaf, but I've had the same thing happen many times over the years in other ICE vehicles I was driving, so it might not just be a Leaf thing, but it's hard to know without more information.

The freezing point of brake fluid (in pure form) is -40F/C, but as the moisture gets in over time, it raises it up so that it can freeze at warmer temperatures.
 
I recall a, er, recall for an issue with the brake booster icing under some conditions. The recall consists of reprogramming the brake controller to frequently 'exercise' the booster to stop the ice from forming. A site search should find it.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I recall a, er, recall for an issue with the brake booster icing under some conditions. The recall consists of reprogramming the brake controller to frequently 'exercise' the booster to stop the ice from forming. A site search should find it.
Oh wow, you are right, I totally forgot about that. I had to get that for my 2013, but I luckily never had it happen to me as I live in a warmer climate area.
 
knightmb said:
jjeff said:
Have you had any more such occurrences or read from anyone else with this issue? This is my 7th year with the Leaf although only probably get temps like this a handful of days/year. I wonder if it could be some water in the brake lines freezing? I've never changed the brake fluid or really done anything to the brakes.....
My first guess would be the brake booster having issues with the cold. Rather than pushing on the brake pedal as hard as possible, how about pumping the brakes to see if that builds the pressure to give you back the braking the power? With the continued cold temperatures, you might have a chance to try it again if it is acting weird.
My second guess would be moisture in the brake lines freezing the caliper pistons or ice on the outside freezing somewhere in the braking system where it can hinder the brake friction.

I've not had this happen to my Leaf, but I've had the same thing happen many times over the years in other ICE vehicles I was driving, so it might not just be a Leaf thing, but it's hard to know without more information.

The freezing point of brake fluid (in pure form) is -40F/C, but as the moisture gets in over time, it raises it up so that it can freeze at warmer temperatures.
I've had air in the lines in previous brakes and yes, pumping the brakes did give me braking in that case but I guess I didn't try that in this case as eventually after about half the way to the floor the brakes did start braking. The car is starting to defrost now, sitting in a mid 40s garage, it's amazing all the frost all over everything under the hood, the battery looks white in frost as a few other areas. I suppose everything in the car is very cold and the garage is probably fairly humid so a frost layer quickly forms on things with lots of mass. I don't think I'm going to try and start the car until tomorrow morning and let it defrost all night in the somewhat warm garage.
Even if this defrosting fixes things I'm going to be a bit worried it might return when the car gets it's normal spot outside of the garage. I really wonder if this is what also caused the stuck brake scenario I experienced last night and actually about a month ago when my range got severely reduced and I was forced to do something I'd never done before, pay for an L2 charge at a parking ramp where I was parked at for about 3hrs. Like last night I should have easily been able to make my round trip but the range was severely reduced. From what I remember that night might have also been cold but I don't think as cold as last night or as cold as tonight is supposed to get, -18F :(
I've never had to replace the brake fluid in any of my other cars, well other than when doing a brake job and even then it was just to top things off but maybe I'll have to reassess my maintenance items on newer cars that may be more prone to things like this.....
I suppose I should also check into the brake recall thing too, I think I have a couple other things that probably need to be fixed under recall, including the Takita? airbag thing.
 
This site is handy for checking if there are any outstanding recall fixes for your LEAF:

https://www.nissanusa.com/recalls-vin/#/#/Home
 
alozzy said:
This site is handy for checking if there are any outstanding recall fixes for your LEAF:

https://www.nissanusa.com/recalls-vin/#/#/Home
Thanks, I tried my vin and the interesting thing is it only came up with one recall, for the bonding plate, even though I know and have letters saying I have two other recalls. One for the A/C hose, which I believe had fail about a year after owning the Leaf and was fixed under warranty because I had no A/C and the other was for a OCC Sensor for the airbag? which I know I haven't had addressed yet.....do the recalls ever expire? Looking at the letters I got from Nissan I see nothing about them expiring but again using the tool you linked I only see the bonding plate recall. Also apparently the Takata airbag recall doesn't include the Leafs? I could find nothing about the Leafs on your link.
Leftie, also no mention about a recall for the brake booster icing on the recall site, did you have it done on your '13 or were you able to find out anything more about it? I'll try more MNL searching but no luck yet.

OK I changed my search parameters and found something.
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21619&p=455454&hilit=brake+booster+recall#p455454
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21292&p=449964&hilit=brake+booster+recall#p449964
Sounds like I should take my Leaf into the dealer and see exactly what recalls they show for my vehicle. I sure hope the brake booster recall is still active as it sounds exactly like what I need done.
 
Well I'm happy to report my dash no longer lights like a Christmas tree and I now have braking functions!
The car was probably 45 degrees, through and through after sitting in the garage all night, -19F outside this morning :shock: I got in and pushed down the brake pedal to start and shortly after pushing the power button the pedal dropped an inch or so and then came back up. No funny whining under the hood or no growling as I'd push the brake pedal.
It's my belief something froze and wouldn't release and defrosting the car in the garage restored operation, although I wonder if I don't either get the recall done or fix something, it might come back when it gets really cold again.....The Leaf doesn't get driven all that often nowadays, mostly just on weekends and it's supposed to get real cold again next weekend so I'm going to try and get an appointment at my local Nissan dealer as soon as I can.
 
jjeff said:
alozzy said:
This site is handy for checking if there are any outstanding recall fixes for your LEAF:

https://www.nissanusa.com/recalls-vin/#/#/Home
Thanks, I tried my vin and the interesting thing is it only came up with one recall, for the bonding plate, even though I know and have letters saying I have two other recalls...

That's disappointing, sounds like I should likewise book an appointment as that database must be unreliable.
 
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it. So to combat this I need to turn on the recirculation mode which just takes the cabin air and runs it by the heater. This does produce warm air, but also causes fogging issues because the humidity in the air is compounded with your body producing moisture. So they recommend turning on AC as well to help dehumidify the air.

What I've found is yes this does produce heat, but the AC can't keep up with dehumidifying the air. So what I do it bounce back and forth between defrost and cabin circulation as needed to reduce the windshield from fogging up.
 
hilts50 said:
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it.
I would be very surprised if 6 kW couldn't keep up with the heating and the explanation that the service center is giving sounds like a "say anything so they go away" response. :(
 
hilts50 said:
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it. So to combat this I need to turn on the recirculation mode which just takes the cabin air and runs it by the heater. This does produce warm air, but also causes fogging issues because the humidity in the air is compounded with your body producing moisture. So they recommend turning on AC as well to help dehumidify the air.

What I've found is yes this does produce heat, but the AC can't keep up with dehumidifying the air. So what I do it bounce back and forth between defrost and cabin circulation as needed to reduce the windshield from fogging up.
Not sure if your '19 is similar to my '13 but there is a trick to go into partial recirculation, it's in Leftie's Tips and Tricks thread but I believe you hold down the recirc button until it flashes. This might be a good compromise for you between fresh air and full recirc.
I agree with the above though, 6kw really should be enough to keep the relatively small Leaf warm on the inside.
 
With the arctic air coming in this week, even our area is going to have single digit temperatures in the forecast, I'll be able to tell very quickly if my Leaf is about to keep up or struggle. ;)
 
knightmb said:
hilts50 said:
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it.
I would be very surprised if 6 kW couldn't keep up with the heating and the explanation that the service center is giving sounds like a "say anything so they go away" response. :(

One thing to keep in mind -- Eco mode reduces that to 3kW.
 
jjeff said:
hilts50 said:
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it. So to combat this I need to turn on the recirculation mode which just takes the cabin air and runs it by the heater. This does produce warm air, but also causes fogging issues because the humidity in the air is compounded with your body producing moisture. So they recommend turning on AC as well to help dehumidify the air.

What I've found is yes this does produce heat, but the AC can't keep up with dehumidifying the air. So what I do it bounce back and forth between defrost and cabin circulation as needed to reduce the windshield from fogging up.
Not sure if your '19 is similar to my '13 but there is a trick to go into partial recirculation, it's in Leftie's Tips and Tricks thread but I believe you hold down the recirc button until it flashes. This might be a good compromise for you between fresh air and full recirc.
I agree with the above though, 6kw really should be enough to keep the relatively small Leaf warm on the inside.

I've got a '22 model, but I'll give that a try thanks!
 
Nubo said:
knightmb said:
hilts50 said:
So I had this happen again on a coldish day. I called the service center and they said that on very cold days the heater can't heat up the outside air enough to make it warm, it gets over powered by it.
I would be very surprised if 6 kW couldn't keep up with the heating and the explanation that the service center is giving sounds like a "say anything so they go away" response. :(

One thing to keep in mind -- Eco mode reduces that to 3kW.

I had tried turning off Eco before and it didn't seem to make much a of a difference. I'll give it a try again here this week. Thanks!
 
Code:
knightmb said:
With the arctic air coming in this week, even our area is going to have single digit temperatures in the forecast, I'll be able to tell very quickly if my Leaf is about to keep up or struggle. ;)

I've been working with -20ºF temps as of late. Single digit above zero I haven't had much for problems.
 
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