Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Class Ac

[TimLee]

I've lost 2 bars at 14,000 miles in Arizona and I will stay in the class action as this is helpful for me. Most others should leave the class action if they are not in a hot climate and don't anticipate losing 4 bars by 60,000 mi or 5 years as it can limit your options if any other issues with the battery.

But if Nissan is going to extend the 5 year, 60,000 miles 4 bar loss capacity warranty to everyone whether they stay in the class or not (per Nissan statements at recent Phoenix "Hot" battery meeting a 66.25% capacity loss), what is the advantage for anyone staying in the class, even those in Arizona? Other than Nissan possibly replacing the battery if you have four missing capacity bars and this prior to the P3227 software change, which I'm still skeptical Nissan will do, although their earlier statements did indicate that was the case? Even if they do that it will only have a small chance of making a difference if you're close to the mileage or time limit but the non-P3227 software inaccuracy happens to be biased to show the 4 bar loss in time to get you the warranty replacement.
What % of LEAF owners / leasers have to stay in the class for the class to remain certified by the court?

 

[Vuman]

I've lost 2 bars at 14,000 miles in Arizona and I will stay in the class action as this is helpful for me. Most others should leave the class action if they are not in a hot climate and don't anticipate losing 4 bars by 60,000 mi or 5 years as it can limit your options if any other issues with the battery.

But if Nissan is going to extend the 5 year, 60,000 miles 4 bar loss capacity warranty to everyone whether they stay in the class or not (per Nissan statements at recent Phoenix "Hot" battery meeting a 66.25% capacity loss), what is the advantage for anyone staying in the class, even those in Arizona? Other than Nissan possibly replacing the battery if you have four missing capacity bars and this prior to the P3227 software change, which I'm still skeptical Nissan will do, although their earlier statements did indicate that was the case? Even if they do that it will only have a small chance of making a difference if you're close to the mileage or time limit but the non-P3227 software inaccuracy happens to be biased to show the 4 bar loss in time to get you the warranty replacement.
What % of LEAF owners / leasers have to stay in the class for the class to remain certified by the court?

Personally, I don't think this class action lawsuit did nothing much because they were already going to extend the warranty to 2011/12 Leaf owners. Thus this class action lawsuit is actually very detrimental to most other Leaf owners as it limits Nissan liability in regards to its battery in the future. I'm staying with the class action because it will affect me and will need a new battery soon. Again, most others should option out of this lawsuit. Hate to say it again, but those lawyers and Nissan are the ones who will benefit the most from this one.

 

[TimLee]

Personally, I don't think this class action lawsuit did nothing much because they were already going to extend the warranty to 2011/12 Leaf owners. Thus this class action lawsuit is actually very detrimental to most other Leaf owners as it limits Nissan liability in regards to its battery in the future. I'm staying with the class action because it will affect me and will need a new battery soon. Again, most others should option out of this lawsuit. Hate to say it again, but those lawyers and Nissan are the ones who will benefit the most from this one.

But how does joining the class affect you, versus not joining? You need a new battery soon, but Nissan will do that under the warranty they are extending to everyone, right?
Are you not having the P3227 software change done, and believe that the possibly earlier loss of 4 capacity bars by not having the P3227 software done will be of benefit?
I tend to agree with you that most LEAF buyers / leasers should opt out of the class.
Way too many gross battery deficiencies and lack of OEM replacement part availability that have not been addressed in this limited settlement. I think Nissan recognized they had no choice but to offer some battery capacity warranty to everyone to salvage any confidence in the LEAF.
But its not much of a warranty compared to their 2010 battery life projections except for those in extremely hot climates.
Many people in somewhat more moderate climates like TN & significant parts of CA will end up with no capacity warranty coverage, and vehicles that are around 66 months old and with mileage from 35,000 to 50,000 and missing 4 capacity bars, < 66.25% battery capacity, and no remedy other than the SYB $100 per month rental if they can stomach that cost and the huge issues, or to basically sell a relatively new car for not much more than scrap value.
Nissan is going to try to minimize their losses on LEAFs coming off lease with their new Certified Pre-Owned Program, although I'm skeptical how much that helps.
All the other original purchasers, and the people buying the Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, will be left holding a very costly bag. LEAF - Leading Environmental Affordable Family Car - Cheap for Five Years - Then DISPOSABLE.

 

[SanDust]

I tend to agree with you that most LEAF buyers / leasers should opt out of the class.

That's an understatement. Got the letter this week and opted out. Anyone who leased will be better off opting out. Anyone who bought won't be worse off by opting out.

The settlement is a joke. The lawyers get paid; Nissan gets a sweetheart deal; consumers get screwed. Class action at its worst.

 

[thankyouOB]

I noticed after my software update that I lose bars at a MUCH lower GID reading than I used to.

They can just keep remapping the bars as much as they want since they don't relate to any real percentage or KWh number. What a bunch of BS.

Philip

exactly why the settlement is better than the warranty. you dont have to have the software redone under the settlement; while under the warranty, you do the remapping and the fourth bar is lost later, perhaps beyond the mileage or time limits.

I dont see anyone saying you get the warranty battery fix without doing the software upgarde.

 

[TimLee]

I dont see anyone saying you get the warranty battery fix without doing the software upgarde.

But where do you find the certainty that the settlement battery replacement with 4 capacity bars loss won't require the P3227 software upgrade first?
YOU the originator of the SYB acronym trust the Nissan class action settlement??????? :? :? :? :? :?

 

[Vuman]

TimLee,

If I understand right, Nissan was going to warranty the 11/12 Leaf. This lawsuit just forced them to do it for people who stays in the lawsuit. If I leave the lawsuit, then I would just have the original battery warranty. They would not give me a new battery if there is 4 bars lost in 5yrs or 60K miles. I would then have to deal with them personally to either replace my battery or buy back the car or some other remedy like hiring my own lawyer to sue them.

However, if I am wrong and Nissan has already extended the new warranty to the 11/12 Leafs. Then this lawsuit is worthless and I would need to opted out also. Could any one else confirm that Nissan has extended the new warranty? or if the warranty is extended to only those who stay in the lawsuit?

My plan was to get the battery replaced under the new warranty sometimes next year when they have the new "more heat-resistant" battery like Brian Brockman from Nissan said or get a certificate for that battery if I have to change this current battery before the "heat-resistant" battery is available.

 

[mwalsh]

Shouldn't have needed to be a lawsuit in the first place.

Hypothetical new lawsuit - Nissan (allgegedy) should have known better than to use a battery cell without a ceramic coated separator. Ergo: All battery degredation claims should come under the 8/100k warranty for defects in materials/workmanship and not the capacity warranty. Discuss.

 

[JeremyW]

Hypothetical new lawsuit - Nissan (allgegedy) should have known better than to use a battery cell without a ceramic coated separator. Ergo: All battery degredation claims should come under the 8/100k warranty for defects in materials/workmanship and not the capacity warranty. Discuss.

Agree 100%. I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea how to proceed.

 

[TomT]

My experience was that, after about a month when the BMS had relearned the battery, I was almost exactly back to where I was before P3227. Thus, I'd refute that there is any difference between old and new regarding when and at what level you lose the bars... The calculation of actual capacity is simply more accurate under some circumstances...

I noticed after my software update that I lose bars at a MUCH lower GID reading than I used to.

 

[Stoaty]

My experience was that, after about a month when the BMS had relearned the battery, I was almost exactly back to where I was before P3227. Thus, I'd refute that there is any difference between old and new regarding when and at what level you lose the bars... The calculation of actual capacity is simply more accurate under some circumstances...

Same thing here. I went from 210 Gids on an 80% charge up to 220, then drifted down to 208 over several weeks, now at 201 a couple of months later. Why not have a more accurate reading?

 

[mxp]

Before Nissan will honor the 4 bars (70%) lost warranty, the dealer has to install the P3227 software and then pull the actual loss with their Consult III+. Or, at least so I was told...

So, do we have the warranty offered earlier, or do we only have
that one if we have the latest firmware uograde?

that is the difference between the settlement and the warranty.
settlement has no requirement for the software change.

IF that is true of this particular settlement, clearly I shall not opt out.
I don't want to perform any of sw updates.
TIA.

 

[SanDust]

However, if I am wrong and Nissan has already extended the new warranty to the 11/12 Leafs. Then this lawsuit is worthless and I would need to opted out also. Could any one else confirm that Nissan has extended the new warranty? or if the warranty is extended to only those who stay in the lawsuit?

You should have gotten a letter from Nissan with the revised battery warranty terms. Did you get this? If so is there any mention of a lawsuit?

Agree 100%. I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea how to proceed.

I opted out. If the battery continues to degrade and the car becomes less useful then, based on the representations of the life of the battery, I'd want either a restoration of the battery to a level consistent with the point of sale representations or out of the lease. Either one.

Staying in the class kills your ability to seek redress for just about everything.

 

[garygid]

Some of you mention a "replacement" battery, but generally
it is just a "fix" of your battery, replacing a few of the lowest
modules.

It is not clear if the firmware update is significant, or required,
in either case. It would seem like we need more specific
information from Nissan or the Court.

 

[TomT]

I would not take any of that as gospel since it was simply an off-the-cuff remark and there is no definitive confirmation nor denial of it as a warranty requirement... That said, I see no downside and a number of upsides to the P3227 update so I really don't know why anyone would not want to get it...

Before Nissan will honor the 4 bars (70%) lost warranty, the dealer has to install the P3227 software and then pull the actual loss with their Consult III+. Or, at least so I was told...

IF that is true of this particular settlement, clearly I shall not opt out. I don't want to perform any of sw updates.

 

[walterbays]

I see no downside and a number of upsides to the P3227 update so I really don't know why anyone would not want to get it...

Can you please tell me the upsides? I read 20 or 30 pages of the p3227 thread and didn't find any explanation of what it did that was of any benefit to drivers, that lasted longer than a few weeks. And Nissan certainty hasn't said anything coherent about what the update does. I'm not afraid to get it next time I'm in for a regular service, but can't see any benefit worth bothering to take it in to the dealer. Thanks.

 

[thankyouOB]

i agree the software change ( i do not see it as an upgrade) appears by all accounts here to have NO benefit and may even manipulate the loss of the fourth bar -- without adding any range -- so that you pass the time or mileage maximums and be not eligible for replacement under the settlement.
the settlement has no requirement for the software change.

 

[surfingslovak]

Some of you mention a "replacement" battery, but generally
it is just a "fix" of your battery, replacing a few of the lowest
modules.

Gary, while that might work for some LEAFs, most of the packs look pretty evenly degraded. Replacing a few disproportionally impacted modules, if they were present, is not likely have much of a benefit. Perhaps that's the model Nissan planned to pursue originally, but I would be surprised if this approach was viable in any of the known warranty replacement cases.

 

[TimLee]

Can you please tell me the upsides ... of the P3227 software change?

One clear change is the correction of the interpretation of the EVSE standard to provide better EVSE compatibility, which is the way Nissan referred to it.
Differences in the EVSE standard interpretation between Nissan and GE and possibly other EVSE manufacturers resulted in a problem that did result in damage to the on board charger on some LEAFs.
Apparently the P3227 corrects this problem.
If you're never going to use an EVSE incompatible with Nissan original interpretation of the EVSE standard, not of much importance.
If you are, you might be better off with the P3227 software change.
Other than that, seems like it primarily tightens the tolerance of accuracy on the capacity determination.
Could that matter for you positively or negatively? :?
Maybe negatively if you've been reading 10% low, and the software change fixes that over 2 to 3 weeks after the change, and now you're only missing 3 bars instead of 4, and are right on the threshold of running out of the 5 year, 60,000 mile pathetic capacity warranty.
But that is a fairly small time window in which not having the P3227 software change and having opted into the class action, might make you better off than having done the P3227 software change and having opted out of the class action.
I haven't decided yet, but as someone who probably won't hit 4 capacity bar loss for at least another 2 years one way or the other, I'm leaning towards opting out and waiting to join the next class action about the deficient 2011 / 2012 / 2013 / early 2014 LEAF main pack battery.
Appears most everyone else will be covered by Nissan extension of the 5 year, 60,000 mile, 5 capacity bar loss warranty, whether they joined the first class action or not.

 

[TomT]

What it does, simply, is tighten up the tolerance in the BMS from plus and minus 10 percent to plus 0 and minus 4 percent. In other words, it is far more accurate.

Can you please tell me the upsides? I read 20 or 30 pages of the p3227 thread and didn't find any explanation of what it did that was of any benefit to drivers, that lasted longer than a few weeks. And Nissan certainty hasn't said anything coherent about what the update does. I'm not afraid to get it next time I'm in for a regular service, but can't see any benefit worth bothering to take it in to the dealer. Thanks.