Nissan,how could you Screw Up so BADLY

[GeorgeParrott]

I TOTALLY sympathize with all of you waiting for you Leaf to arrive. I do have mine (VIN #320), but I still spent a couple of months trying to get an understanding from Nissan as to WHY even my "day 1" order was not to arrive until at least two months after the initial posted and verbally assured delivery date.

Nissan's "customer service" rates somewhere below even ComCast relative to handling the feedback process of when our cars would/will arrive.

I also ordered VERY early the Chevy Volt, and while that was painful to find an honest dealer, after that hurdle, GM handled the order processing and delivery feedback AMAZINGLY well.

Anyway, though I have my Leaf and I am very impressed with the overall "package," I fully support your disgust with how Nissan responds to questions about delivery....

George in W. Sacramento
Leaf SL VIN #320 with QC, 2200 miles
Volt, VIN 679 , 3400 miles, 99 mpg currently

 

[Herm]

You know those CS guys are getting paid $8 an hour, and they dont have an engineer sitting next to them.. I would be very careful what kind of questions you ask them, we probably know more about the Leaf than them.

 

[sdleaf619]

Earthquake and Tsunami aside (my heart goes out to Japan for their terrible loss), Nissan is going to lose business over their constant pushing back of delivery dates on the Leaf. I have had four changes in the month of delivery and now have been changed a fifth time to July. They simply do not have good information to give out and are incapable of good customer service.

I am keeping my order (placed on day 1) but actively searching for an alternative.
I do not like the Volt. If anyone has found a good alternative, please let me know.
No matter how good the car might be, the lack of reliable customer service is a huge concern.
I expect a sixth change to my delivery date to be posted to my account soon.

 

[EVDRIVER]

For those of you in the still waiting, I invite you to speak with anyone that signed up to get an Aptera, it makes all this look like excellent communication and speedy delivery All we received were occasional propaganda letters with spelling errors and typos from one incompetent marketing moron on a fat salary, all for a $500 deposit that in some cases was to be non-refundable with the baited hope of a discount in the future. Years and counting....

 

[xtremeflyer]

I contacted Christopher Elliott, a consumer advocate.. He's been a travel ombudsman for years but over the past few has been expanding into other industries. He currently writes for Mint.com and bnet.com (along with National Geographic and his own webpage elliott.org and onyoursi.de) .. He says he's going to do his own digging.

Should be interesting to see if he can crack a nut we haven't been able to.

 

[daniel]

... there is no delivery contract or guarantee of delivery order even though they stated deliveries based on reservation, etc they have no obligation to do so...

I believe you are correct. Nissan has no contractual obligation to us other than to refund the $99 when we either buy the car or cancel our order. What's more, they couldn't care less if we cancel our orders, since the car is still in a seller's market. My dealer asked me, back in September, to place my order even if I had already decided not to buy the car, as he is so sure of being able to sell it.

The only issue here for me is one of respect. A friend of mine has already canceled his order due to the disrespect that Nissan has shown towards its customers. He is accustomed to honesty and respect, and when it became clear that Nissan does not care to provide either, he no longer wanted to deal with them, regardless of how much he might have wanted the car. And Nissan does not care, because someone will buy that car.

Nissan has no legal obligation. They have broken no law and defaulted on no contract. And their lawyers would get any lawsuit thrown out of court before you could say "watt."

But in my view there is a moral obligation to common decency which involves giving customers the respect of an open and transparent system with information made public. This includes information about the ordering and delivery process, as well as information about the safety and/or crash testing (mentioned in another thread) and information about battery testing and longevity and why Nissan has decided not to use active cooling of the battery. (Is there technical information indicating it would not help, or is it simply cost-cutting at the sacrifice of battery life?)

Folks who know me know how much I hate GM for the contempt in which they hold their customers and the people of this country. I entered this process with an overflow of goodwill towards Nissan. That has pretty much dried up, due to the lack of information and the lack of respect we have gotten from them.

Caveat: This could all change if I get my Leaf before Tesla offers to sell me a Model S, and if it turns out to be a really superb car. Or if my EV Porsche arrives, and turns out to be everything I want in an EV, and the Leaf is not here in another month after that, I could write off Nissan as the Japanese GM and walk away.

Nissan's "customer service" rates somewhere below even ComCast ...

Hey, here in Spokane I have had consistently excellent customer service from Comcast.

 

[Stoaty]

The only issue here for me is one of respect. A friend of mine has already canceled his order due to the disrespect that Nissan has shown towards its customers.

It always surprises me how important this is to some people re: a large corporation in another country. I tend to expect little, and thus am not disappointed. On the other hand, if a local dealer wasn't respectful and didn't do a good job I would change in a heartbeat. Fontana Nissan has been a pleasure to deal with; they have no control over how Nissan corporate does things. Probably Nissan USA gets their marching orders from Japan, where the culture may be quite different. I haven't seen anything to suggest that there will be a problem after the sale, from either the dealers or Nissan itself (witness the Service Announcement for the A/C restart inhibition problem). Not saying one way or another is right or wrong, it just tends to surprise me how different peoples reactions are to this issue.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Nissan owes no one transparency in the order process detail but in good business practice they should communicate with customers better and address the order concerns in some manner. Even though I have my car Nissan has lost my respect as a company for many reasons, mostly for flat out lying on one occasion about delivery dates not changing when they did and then refuting things they stated in writing as if they never existed. It's not that I can't tolerate many mistakes it's more an issue of the utter BS, never calling or getting back to me on four issues as promised and constantly passing the back to AV and Ecotality when they are Nissan partners, really pathetic business practices that are easy to avoid. Their entire CS platform is disjointed and seems to lack any real process into improving the process and their communication folks send out announcements to consumers and don't inform the parties impacted. Really poor management overall and unless it improves it will tarnish their products. Since many LEAF buyers are first time Nissan buyers they should have done better to retain new customers rather then alienate them. I still don't have an answer on some issues and I expect to get them on my own, that's how you get an answer with Nissan, you find it elsewhere.

 

[LEAFfan]

CS surprised me today! I called because with a DB delivery date of 'week of May 6', I was concerned about the NMAC Lease Application because it says that the lease terms are only good through April 30 (no one seems to know if they will extend the agreement as written now). So after Apr. 30th, they could change it to whatever they want and it could cost me many more bucks a month. But before the CS rep could tell me whether the lease application will be extended, he told me that my LEAF was finished Apr. 15th with all the service (port accesories, software updates, a/c fix, etc.) and it is shipped to the dealer two to three days later. Also, ECOtality called today and scheduled the charging station install for next Mon. So it looks like you can subtract one week from what your DB says.

 

[gbshaun]

My point which I repeated was that those seeking recourse have no legal grounds

Might I genuinely enquire if this is a professional opinion? From a mostly lay perspective it would seem that if Nissan did indeed say it would deliver cars in the order they were ordered, and if as seems likey their failure to do that is going cause X #of CA customers to each lose out on $Y of rebate which they otherwise would have received, then Nissan could quite reasonably be determined to be legally liable. It's not a huge sum, the the #'s and names are going to be very easy to confirm. If they were smart, they'd do the right thing and settle.

attempting to sue Nissan is a bit silly..... I have accepted the fact Nissan is useless at managing information and customers.

The final part of your sentence explains why the first part is incorrect. But the fact that many people will suffer a financial loss in itself means no one is
"silly" if they choose to exercise their right to take legal action.

I would also note that there is info out there that supports that Nissan had much more severe issues after the quake then has been revealed both with inventory damage and going forward getting parts to make cars, it's not just a few days of the plant shutting down, but would anyone expect them to mention that as a business struggling in a disaster situation.

As has been pointed out many times, the error was initiated before the tragic events in Japan (which everyone here seems to be very sensitive to, and understanding about). From what i have read, the mistake was made over here. But how would we know for sure as Nissan does not seem to be volunteering any information.

 

[Stoaty]

But the fact that many people will suffer a financial loss in itself means no one is "silly" if they choose to exercise their right to take legal action.

Yes, but they can avoid the financial loss by not taking delivery of their Leaf. If the customer chooses to go through with the purchase and suffer that loss, it is on them. Nissan isn't holding a gun to their head to buy the Leaf.

 

[smkettner]

No one has lost a dollar yet. Time will tell.

 

[gbshaun]

But the fact that many people will suffer a financial loss in itself means no one is "silly" if they choose to exercise their right to take legal action.

Yes, but they can avoid the financial loss by not taking delivery of their Leaf. If the customer chooses to go through with the purchase and suffer that loss, it is on them. Nissan isn't holding a gun to their head to buy the Leaf.

I could definitely see that point being argued. In fact it's about the ONLY thing I can see being disputed, and i don't know where it would fall. There are many reasons why someone might go ahead anyhow with the purchase, especially after having waited for over a year. I'm not totally sure one would even HAVE to give a reason as to why the purchase was still made. That may well be irrelevant.


But also if someone could no longer afford the higher effective cost, and had to decline the purchase, they'd have possibly incurred unusual expenses over the preceding months in anticipation of the pre-arranged Leaf purchase. I have already seen posts to this effect on this board. Those incurred costs would then be in vain due to Nissan's screw-up. That may be a tougher argument, but I believe it has some merit.

Best situation: The $5k rebate pool covers everyone in CA who ordered before those whose positions in line were jumped forward by Nissan
Next Best: Nissan admits its mistake and promises now to make up the difference for anyone who misses out,.. meaning no one has to cancel their order after a year because they hit their price limit.
Worst: Nissan says nothing, and does nothing, not even apologize formally.

 

[thankyouOB]

What is all this cackling about suits and liability? Get real. Will you pay a lawyer's bills to follow up on these claims against Nissan? Can you find a trial attorney who sees some class action here?
NO.

Let's face it: You don't have to buy the car.
To incur the supposed loss you must buy the car and not realize the 5k rebate. Is that even an actionable loss against Nissan?
Assume it is (against all logic). Then, if you realize the 3k rebate and the loss is 2k, is that less than the legal bills?
Can you find a lawyer to take on the "class action" of the (lets way over estimate this) 100 people who got leap-frogged and lost out on 2k = $200k?
You take the legal fees out of that, or get lucky and the court awards the legal fees, if you can find a lawyer to do this on spec.

Can we elevate this board beyond this issue. Nissan screwed up. Cancel the order. Take the order.
Complain about the order, but stop this nonsense about legal liability and winning in court.

They have an army of lawyers and you have just anger.
We all get that you are upset.
I, too, am past the due date on my car. but all this cat-calling and pissing and entitlement is just not going anywhere.
kick the dog, if that helps. But stop talking about having a legal action.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

Very early in the Leaf literature Nissan changed the wording regarding the federal tax credit from it being $7500 to it being "Zero to $7500"... here's what it says regarding California: (again note the "zero"): Rebate of zero to $5,000 per vehicle to be claimed by individuals and businesses. Although the project is in effect through 2015, it is anticipated that funding will not be sufficient to allow this. Therefore, rebates are awarded on a first come, first served basis. Total funds of $3,079,906 remain available as of December 31, 2010.

Nissan never promised you a rebate or incentive, and you never entered into a contract with them to deliver a car on a specific date nor to deliver a car eligible for an incentive.

The initial reservation e-mail stated that there was limited availability with full roll out due on 2012.. again, Nissan never promised anyone a specific date.

Again, I totally agree with those that see no potential law suit.. there just are no damages.. The customer choosing to complete the transaction once incentives are exhausted waives any claim that they were mislead or that negligence or fraud on the part of Nissan existed. And, as stated, there were never promises of incentives.

 

[derkraut]

What is all this cackling about suits and liability? Get real. Will you pay a lawyer's bills to follow up on these claims against Nissan? Can you find a trial attorney who sees some class action here?
NO.

Let's face it: You don't have to buy the car.
To incur the supposed loss you must buy the car and not realize the 5k rebate. Is that even an actionable loss against Nissan?
Assume it is (against all logic). Then, if you realize the 3k rebate and the loss is 2k, is that less than the legal bills?
Can you find a lawyer to take on the "class action" of the (lets way over estimate this) 100 people who got leap-frogged and lost out on 2k = $200k?
You take the legal fees out of that, or get lucky and the court awards the legal fees, if you can find a lawyer to do this on spec.

Can we elevate this board beyond this issue. Nissan screwed up. Cancel the order. Take the order.
Complain about the order, but stop this nonsense about legal liability and winning in court.

They have an army of lawyers and you have just anger.
We all get that you are upset.
I, too, am past the due date on my car. but all this cat-calling and pissing and entitlement is just not going anywhere.
kick the dog, if that helps. But stop talking about having a legal action.

I don't have a dog....so, I'm gonna kick my wife. Will that work??

 

[Stoaty]

Best situation: The $5k rebate pool covers everyone in CA who ordered before those whose positions in line were jumped forward by Nissan
Next Best: Nissan admits its mistake and promises now to make up the difference for anyone who misses out,.. meaning no one has to cancel their order after a year because they hit their price limit.
Worst: Nissan says nothing, and does nothing, not even apologize formally.

The Best is possible, the Next Best will never happen, the Worst is certain.

Edit: I am not going to respond to any more posts that mention legal action. I suggest others take the same vow of abstinence :lol:

 

[thankyouOB]

I don't have a dog....so, I'm gonna kick my wife. Will that work?? [/quote]


you be nuts to get your wife involved in this in a negative way.
around my place, no good comes of that.

 

[smkettner]

Very early in the Leaf literature Nissan changed the wording regarding the federal tax credit from it being $7500 to it being "Zero to $7500"... here's what it says regarding California: (again note the "zero"): Rebate of zero to $5,000 per vehicle to be claimed by individuals and businesses. Although the project is in effect through 2015, it is anticipated that funding will not be sufficient to allow this. Therefore, rebates are awarded on a first come, first served basis. Total funds of $3,079,906 remain available as of December 31, 2010.

Nissan never promised you a rebate or incentive, and you never entered into a contract with them to deliver a car on a specific date nor to deliver a car eligible for an incentive.

The initial reservation e-mail stated that there was limited availability with full roll out due on 2012.. again, Nissan never promised anyone a specific date.

Again, I totally agree with those that see no potential law suit.. there just are no damages.. The customer choosing to complete the transaction once incentives are exhausted waives any claim that they were mislead or that negligence or fraud on the part of Nissan existed. And, as stated, there were never promises of incentives.

I agree with you. However in that old literature I believe it also said something about orders and deliveries would be in the reservation order. Makes me dissappointed in Nissan but still no real leg to stand on. It will be interesting how it all plays out.

 

[Stoaty]

you be nuts to get your wife involved in this in a negative way.

Yes, you might end up getting divorced and having to sue Nissan for alimony :lol: