Next Car when LEAF Lease Ends?

[pkulak]

I was also considering the A3 e-tron as a possible 'combo' car (EV + ICE for long trips) but its also too small to serve the utility aspect of the ICE it would replace; your 20 mile R/T or less may indeed be doable with the e-tron but the Audi reps I spoke with at an event a few months back thought 15 to 18 miles was about it in full electric mode; but as always YMMV. You're correct about current lack of choices in the rest of the US but this Audi should slowly show up nationwide; VW/Audi/Porsche has a few other PHEV and full EV models in the wings but this one is the first.

We actually consider the small size a plus. Two years ago, I wouldn't have, but our youngest kid is 3 now, which means no strollers, pack 'n' plays, diaper bags, or any of that stuff. We go on two week trips with just a few bags. And with 99% of trips in the city, smaller is better, but with a hatch so I can put the seats down and still haul Ikea furniture if I need to.

Plugs, I'm 5'8" and the tallest member of my family by half a foot.

 

[EVforRobert]

GM should put their Voltec into a CUV. If the Audi wagon gets only 15-20 miles, GM can easily beat Audi. Why they don't, I can't understand.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I had made up mind pretty much to lease another Leaf, my 3rd one. But guess what, 2016s have not arrived here in Dallas with any dealers and they don't know when they will, and even if it hit the lots here the lease deals I am seeing are simply insane - around $550+/month with zero down for the 30kwh SV.

So I convinced myself that a 2015 would do, but then came the shocker. NMAC has reduced the residuals to as low as 31%, leaving the lease rates pretty high - as high as $400 for a decent SV (zero down). So even though the MSRP has not changed and in fact Nissan and dealer rebates on a 2015 are still healthy, and buying one outright is no more expensive today compared to one year ago. Leasing on the other hand is a completely different story. Looks like NMAC has woken up and understood that leasing is a losing proposition for them, since almost no one is buying their Leafs at the end of the lease. So they reduced the residuals to an unbelievable 31%

The salesman acknowledged that the few 2015s they have, have been sitting on their lots for over 10 to 12 months and the chances of moving them out is very slim.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I had made up mind pretty much to lease another Leaf, my 3rd one. ...
The salesman acknowledged that the few 2015s they have, have been sitting on their lots for over 10 to 12 months and the chances of moving them out is very slim.

Pretty much us. I never questioned that we'd lease another LEAF. Until I looked at lease rates. It seems that Nissan has given up on encouraging anyone to buy or lease a LEAF. There are no other viable options in my area. Can't extend the current lease. I had thought about purchasing a used one, but they haven't been available and prices have gone up several thousand dollars. Overall we're being forced to get an ICE. We've been shopping this month and will pull the trigger this week (year end sales!) or order a Mini in January. Wish Mini would make an EV.
Maybe its <$2 gas thats killing electric cars now.

 

[Flyct]

I bought a 2015 SL w/Premium pkg, 2 months ago. Negotiated $11,000 off MSRP between NMAC cash and Dealer discount. Then factor in the $7,500 tax rebate for a total savings of $18,500. That made it a sub $20k deal. The same car was offered at $3,000 down and $305/month lease for 3 year lease. A lease would have cost me $14,000 to drive it for 3 years with no equity at the end. Buying outright was a better deal. Assuming it is worth $11,000 after 3 years my monthly cost will only be $250/month.

My ICE is a loaded 2015 Lexus RX450h Hybrid. I found the the Leaf has become a great choice. Today I drove the Lexus only because it hasn't moved in 4 weeks. I don't feel guilty any more making the short trips to the store, the beach or just going out for a nice drive in the beautiful Florida weather with our Leaf.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We all seem to be having the same experience. I thought I'd see if there was a good lease deal on a leftover 2015 SV with Premium. They are rare here (lots of S models and SVs with no premium) but one dealership found one for me, and a SuperBlack SV at that. I had specified no more than $220 a month, and hey, no problem! I just have to give them $6800 down, plus tax. I started looking at incentives online, and to buy the same car I can put down $5k, roll the tax into the payment (remember, it's ZERO percent for 72 months, so there is no issue with financing a lot) and pay $321.55 a month to own the car. I don't love either deal, but buying is clearly better than leasing, now. The thing is, I have almost 6 months left on my $159 a month lease extension, and I like my 20013. I hate having to decide this week whether to buy a Leaf now or never buy one (I don't want an S) at all.

 

[TomT]

Meanwhile, GM is making good deals on 2016/2017 Volt leases... I can get the Premier model with both convenience packages and nav for 36 months and 12,000 miles/year for $295 a month with $1,995 down on the Costco deal...

 

[LeftieBiker]

We actually wanted to test drive a 2016 Volt today, before I decide, but can't find one in stock right now. Not a Hot item locally, and the dealers are indifferent to them. I'm sure my housemate would prefer to keep her PIP anyway. She is very conservative, car-wise.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

We actually wanted to test drive a 2016 Volt today, before I decide, but can't find one in stock right now. Not a Hot item locally, and the dealers are indifferent to them. I'm sure my housemate would prefer to keep her PIP anyway. She is very conservative, car-wise.

I've disliked the Volt in the past because the interior seems too cramped with low ceiling and encroaching battery in the center console. But I might be more open the idea if the 2016 has a more open feel. Outside of CARB states, I have to wait for the 2017 which is supposed to come out in February (probably later).

 

[pkulak]

We actually wanted to test drive a 2016 Volt today, before I decide, but can't find one in stock right now. Not a Hot item locally, and the dealers are indifferent to them. I'm sure my housemate would prefer to keep her PIP anyway. She is very conservative, car-wise.

I've disliked the Volt in the past because the interior seems too cramped with low ceiling and encroaching battery in the center console. But I might be more open the idea if the 2016 has a more open feel. Outside of CARB states, I have to wait for the 2017 which is supposed to come out in February (probably later).

You have to wait for the '17 for ACC anyway. I'm in Oregon and I wouldn't buy the '16.

 

[LeftieBiker]

My purchase deal fell through (the car had serious lot damage) so the Volt remains on the table. If we drive one (Base LT) and like it, I'd lease that in both our names next May, and she'd take over driving it when her lease ended, leaving me free to buy a used Leaf next Fall.

 

[RonDawg]

I've disliked the Volt in the past because the interior seems too cramped with low ceiling and encroaching battery in the center console. But I might be more open the idea if the 2016 has a more open feel.

I sat in a '16 at the LA Auto Show, on the inside it feels just as small as the original version. The low roofline and low seating position definitely make it more uncomfortable than the Leaf.

 

[bradbissell]

For those who asked in PM, the $205 per month included $2800 down, but that included fees and first month. $2500 of that payment will be covered by the MA EV rebate.

Unfortunately due to my GM dealer being idiots the Volt is still in transit and I'm without my leaf. Not the best situation, but one that I have learned from. I'll never trust a dealer and will not deal with Quirk Cheverolet in Braintree again.

Decided to lease a 2016 Volt for $205/15k miles/39 months and turn in my month to month 2013 Leaf. The Leaf will go back by the end of the month since I refuse to buy the Leaf with 38k miles for $14.5k after Nissan's not so generous discount. The Volt isn't my first choice in EV (it is a PHEV, ugh). Since I can't afford a Model S, and the lease rates on the 30kwh Leaf are insane, I settled for the Volt. Hopefully the Model 3 will be out when my Volt lease ends in 39 months. I really wish Nissan had released the Leaf2 rather than the 30kwh stop gap car.

 

[LeftieBiker]

When I was about to buy a 2015 Leaf SV because of those insane lease rates, I did several rough calculations. One was of particular interest: it would have cost me about $28k, with sales tax, to buy the 2015 using the 0% 72 month financing from NMAC and $5k down. It would cost me, if I can lease a 2016 SV for $5k down and $350 a month (I'm hoping for a Memorial Day sale) and then buy it for the $11k residual after three years, about $30k, with estimated tax. I think I'd rather pay $2k more for a 107 mile Leaf with standard QC and 17" wheels than for a 2015 with no QC, 83 mile range and 16" wheels, especially since I wouldn't be obligated to buy the 2016. Frankly, though, if I don't hate the car, $11k to buy it after lease will be hard to resist. I need a 100 mile range car (and the QC will hopefully prove useful in the near future) that I can afford, not a 180-200 mile car that I can't.

 

[booper]

When I was about to buy a 2015 Leaf SV because of those insane lease rates, I did several rough calculations. One was of particular interest: it would have cost me about $28k, with sales tax, to buy the 2015 using the 0% 72 month financing from NMAC and $5k down. It would cost me, if I can lease a 2016 SV for $5k down and $350 a month (I'm hoping for a Memorial Day sale) and then buy it for the $11k residual after three years, about $30k, with estimated tax. I think I'd rather pay $2k more for a 107 mile Leaf with standard QC and 17" wheels than for a 2015 with no QC, 83 mile range and 16" wheels, especially since I wouldn't be obligated to buy the 2016. Frankly, though, if I don't hate the car, $11k to buy it after lease will be hard to resist. I need a 100 mile range car (and the QC will hopefully prove useful in the near future) that I can afford, not a 180-200 mile car that I can't.

You would benefit from the $7,500 Federal Income Tax Credit on a purchase though, NMAC gets that with the lease.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You would benefit from the $7,500 Federal Income Tax Credit on a purchase though, NMAC gets that with the lease.

That is included in the 2015 purchase price, along with the $5500 in NMAC incentives. It's still only about $2k more to lease a 2016 and then buy it, because NMAC uses the $7500 to reduce the monthly payments.

 

[mihird]

When I was about to buy a 2015 Leaf SV because of those insane lease rates, I did several rough calculations. One was of particular interest: it would have cost me about $28k, with sales tax, to buy the 2015 using the 0% 72 month financing from NMAC and $5k down. It would cost me, if I can lease a 2016 SV for $5k down and $350 a month (I'm hoping for a Memorial Day sale) and then buy it for the $11k residual after three years, about $30k, with estimated tax. I think I'd rather pay $2k more for a 107 mile Leaf with standard QC and 17" wheels than for a 2015 with no QC, 83 mile range and 16" wheels, especially since I wouldn't be obligated to buy the 2016. Frankly, though, if I don't hate the car, $11k to buy it after lease will be hard to resist. I need a 100 mile range car (and the QC will hopefully prove useful in the near future) that I can afford, not a 180-200 mile car that I can't.

I just started using my 107 mile 2016 SV on my 86 mile daily commute. The range alone was what broke me from my 2013 & convinced me into the 2016. No more forced to recharge at work every day. The range boost is real & has taken more than 50% range anxiety off my daily drive.

The standard QC & fast building out CHAdeMO network already makes me think this car is usable in a 200-250 mile radius. Without the QC, I never ventured on a long drive in my 2013 SV.

 

[LeftieBiker]

What would you say the real world range is, the way that you drive?

 

[booper]

You would benefit from the $7,500 Federal Income Tax Credit on a purchase though, NMAC gets that with the lease.

That is included in the 2015 purchase price, along with the $5500 in NMAC incentives. It's still only about $2k more to lease a 2016 and then buy it, because NMAC uses the $7500 to reduce the monthly payments.

28k including all rebates/credits seems really high to purchase a 2015 SV. I've seen prices in the Seattle area in the 25k and less range before the Fed Income Tax Credits, which puts it at around 17.5k all-in. No sales tax on Leafs in WA state helps as well. Not sure if they are still available, as they may have trying to hit a year-end target.

 

[mihird]

What would you say the real world range is, the way that you drive?

Right now, the battery is new but at the same time we are going through very cold weather (sub zero overnight) & my leaf charges outside on the driveway.

I still see 115-120 miles on the guess-o-meter in the morning & come back after driving 86-90 miles with 22-25 miles left on the guess-o-meter & 20% charge left on the battery. I keep the heater off on the way back though to conserve battery. And I pre heat the cabin in the morning on house power.

My feeling after driving. 5-7 days is that you can squeeze 100 miles of range, no matter what the conditions outside as long as you follow a few basic norms (this is exactly what my sales rep. told me)

1. Try not to cruise over 62-65 mph (passing at 70-75 is fine)
2. Steep ascends - slow down to 55-60 mph
3. Use HVAC in moderation. Pre heat the cabin in the morning using the climate control timer. Use the seat & steering wheel heaters later.
4. Keep your tires inflated properly.

The real relief with range anxiety came to me in this form. The leaf still has 12 bars, but it took me 2 days to realize that each bar is lasting 25% more miles. So, the bars are disappearing slower compared to the 2013. Also, when you have 6-7 bars left at end of morning one way drive, it is not the same as the 2013 - each of those bars will give more miles on the way back. It took me 2 days to reprogram this mentally. The low battery indicator is also delayed. It no longer appears at the previous threshold. Because there is more in reserve, I guess.

I am able to consistently roundtrip 86-90 miles without range anxiety - not even the low battery indicator comes on in this dead cold weather. Of course, having the QC & 2 year free access to it makes it that much more stress free, unlike the 2013 which I had without the QC. I have 3-4 CHAdeMO stations between home & work. Back in 2013, there were none of these CHAdeMO stations.

I once tried the CHAdeMO just to gain familiarity with the port/station. It pumped 45-50 miles of range in 12 minutes. I think, you can pump 80 miles in 30 mins.

I am expecting to see 125-140 mile range in summer. I intend to take it on a 200+ mile drive in spring.