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garygid said:
I think the daytime PV does indeed help.

Ofcource it does.

My ideal would be
- 50% renewables
- 50% nuclear (gen 4 - LFTR/FBR etc)

I think it is very important to start building full scale prototypes of LFTR nukes that can replace coal plants in-situ. Atleast for every nuke we build, a coal plant must close. And then we need to start getting right of way for all the new transmission lines needed for renewables. All these will take decades.

The problem is not technology (which apparently is what everyone keeps talking about when it comes to renewables). It is economics & politics. That no one wants to talk about - I guess because they either don't understand / appreciate the problems - or because they do but don't want to talk about it (mostly politicians).
 
evnow said:
PV is completely useless unless you have backup - and a huge battery. Currently PV sounds cheap since it uses the grid as the battey. If you include battery costs PV or wind starts looking fairly bad. That is where the solar thermal comes a little better because of possibility of using liquid salts to store energy cheaply.

I'm not sure the folks that are off-grid would agree. ;)

For the economics of batteries vs grid expansion, look to Presidio Texas. Last month they brought a 4MW sodium sulfur battery on-line. It provides grid stabilization and 8 hours of peak-load power for the town. It was $23 million for the battery - and would have been $44 million to upgrade their 60-mile connection to the grid.

Lithium prices are down so far that I'll likely not use lead-acid for the storage pack. Wind and solar will give me more power than I'll need. Solar thermal for hot water should be close to year round.

As to storage. Did you catch the point in MacKay's comment that if all the US did was install concentrating solar in a 600x600km square that we could supply the entire country with power - including hot water and transportation? If that happened, we could take all the coal plants, nukes, wind, biomass, oil, and natural gas plants off-line and remove all the roof-top PV and solar thermal. The large scale concentrating plants use salt beds for heat storage - so yes - this is solar power that works at night.

You've already pointed that it's not inexpensive - but factoring in oil company subsidies and tax breaks, the money we're sending out of the country, and health insurance drain from direct and indirect effects of burning coal in this country, the numbers start to look pretty doable.
 
AndyH said:
You've already pointed that it's not inexpensive - but factoring in oil company subsidies and tax breaks, the money we're sending out of the country, and health insurance drain from direct and indirect effects of burning coal in this country, the numbers start to look pretty doable.

I'd like to see some numbers rather than a statement.

The reason why we are not all driving EVs today is not because of science/technology. It is because of economics & politics. I rest my case :(
 
Ok, then we can (or should) start working on the "politics", right?

Next vote, coming up soon?
Which candidates are most "invested" in protecting the oil industry?

Which candidates will support gradually increasing oil taxes, to be used for "green" transportation, and not used for paying for "endless" wars?
 
Thanks Jimmy,
That is wonderful to hear.

Have you seen AVATAR?
In my mind, a really Great Movie.
Now, it is my all-time favorite movie.
I just got it on Blu-ray.
If you want to see it, let me know.
 
evnow said:
The reason why we are not all driving EVs today is not because of science/technology. It is because of economics & politics. I rest my case :(

I frankly don't think you have a case. ;) I also don't think that 'all' is a valid target - because not everyone wants an EV, and there are plenty of segments for which an EV is not the best option - long haul trucks, sales people driving 25-35000 miles per year, folks with boats and RVs, etc.

At the same time, the electric auto association says in one of their ads that the 1500 EVs their members own have already traveled more than 12 million electric miles. Add those to the folks that own and operate the EV RAV4s, Rangers, S10s, Prizms, and Solectria vehicles, then all the folks with Chinese electric scooters and motorcycles, and the hundreds that use ebikes (and do you know that some Americans actually ride bicycles or - gasp - walk?!). The lead-acid trucks are moving thru end of battery life now and some are for sale. These provide a $5-10K opening where one can install ~$10,000 worth of LiFePO4 and come out with a 100 mile range factory-built EV for about $20K.

For the political side: Are you a member of the Electric Auto Association? How about Plug In America? Sierra Club? The oil and coal lobbies are powerful and can toss a lot of cash around. What are you doing to add your weight to the other side?

As to economics: Money is a renewable resource and is relative. There are many hundreds of trillions of dollars flying back and forth above our heads every day. The money is there. Once you really grasp that you'll see that it's not a limiting factor. The coal, gas, and oil industry understands that! (So do power companies. Do you get that the reason power companies are getting behind EVs and supporting infrastructure is because it will give them another way to sell their product?! It's a new source of cash flow!)

If you truly believe that everyone should be driving an EV, getting off coal, and moving to 100% sustainability, what are you doing toward that goal in your personal life? How long is your commute? Are you using CFLs? Driving a gas car? Buying local organic food? Writing letters to gov't officials to let your voice be heard?

Bottom line, Amigo, not a single one of us needs the government to change anything in order for us to adjust our lives to live the way we believe.

So...here's a plan of action. Businesses and governments live or die with cash flow. If people start with conservation they'll cut their electricity demand - some estimates say 40%. That keeps some of their money in their pocket and cuts some of the power company's cash flow. When electric customers add solar hot water capability - there's about a 40% cut in their electric or gas bill - and another bit out of the electric company's cash flow. Add wind and solar where available and inside the power company red lights start to flash. If there's also constant support from these soon to be former power customers supporting the EPA and other organizations lobbying for clean air and water, the power company will have reached the 'no-brainer' point where it's in their best interest to start decommissioning coal plants. There are many ways to arrive at the same destination. Set a goal and start with small step. And keep using our untapped creativity to find new ways to get where we want to go.

Or stay in place and say it'll never work. Whatever. Free choice. For every Eeyore there are plenty of others that are adding radiant barriers and buying PV while it's on sale. None of these plans live or die on the choices of a minority.

Andy
 
I am a fan of Dr. Hermann Scheer. One of the key players in rolling out the EEG feed-in tariff law in Germany. He is Member of the German Parliament, since 1980; President of EUROSOLAR - The European Association for Renewable Energy; General Chairman of the World Council for Renewable Energy (WCRE); Author, policy innovator and global leader in the field of renewable energy and opposed to nuclear. I agree simply because it is not sustainable. And makes you dependent on uranium from unstable countries. We should pursue (solar) thermal energy, wind and PV. Thermal energy alone can theoretically provide 44TWh (2 times the world needs) for the same costs as nuclear power without the waste problem and potential disasters.

A lot of things are already being said in this thread. I like to think in terms of solutions. One very powerful solution in my mind are plus energy houses. Or any other form of house that produces more power than it consumes and at the same time reduced energy needs. take a look at these German Bio-solar homes: http://www.bio-solar-house.com/index.html

It only takes 35kWh per square meter per year on energy needs.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z7cdDYP_zg[/youtube]
 
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