New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

[VenatorFox]

This car showing a 35 mile range at 100% is just plain wrong... I would be interested in seeing what the next screen says about state of charge %.....

% SoC screen on '13+ Leafs tells you nothing about the battery condition. You could have a very degraded battery and it's still going to read 100% at full charge.

Go to a Nissan Dealer IMMEDIATELY and have a Leaf-trained technician do the "yearly battery check". Don't waste time with any experimenting!!

Why? The report by itself is pretty useless to the customer.

I also don't have a screen with %. I might running older software.

Correct. % state of charge didn't come until 2013 model year. All '11 and '12 Leafs only have the crap GOM, the fuel bars on the right + charging time estimates.

Do you know where the car was sold the 1st time and where it spent most of its time?

OP, can you please respond to this?

We're trying to figure out if it resided in a hot climate (e.g. Phoenix, Vegas, Texas, etc.) or a milder one or somewhere in between. The hot climates will rapidly degrade a '12 Leaf's battery and there's NO way a '12 from a hot climate on its original battery will still have all 12 capacity bars, unless someone reset the BMS/battery capacity display. (For reference, from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326, when the Leaf had only been out ~21 months, 1 Phoenician Leaf was down FOUR capacity bars.)

If I were in your shoes and there's some law that mandates (or some sort of dealer guarantee) that you can still return the car at this time, do it now. Figure things out later and buy it back if it somehow tends to end up checking out.

Okay, I'll take it back tomorrow and ask them if I can return it. I'm pretty sure I can't since I signed. I purchased it 5 days ago. The range has not been improving. If the battery health is truly only 42.33% (Am I reading that right? Hx?), then its not going to work out at all. They told me the battery was fine. They told me GOM was ~80 miles when they last fully charged it. The car was originally in Denver, CO. I'm driving it around in Kearney, NE.

 

[Firetruck41]

SOH is the the one that reflects capacity, it is at 63%, this should qualify you for a new battery if you are under 5 years and 60k miles... once it is actually indicated on the dash, which apparently can take months after a reset...

On the other hand you have a quantifiable reason to try to return the car, as it was sold to you with the battery capacity meter altered from actual (whether they knew it or not is up for debate). I would take a single video of your car dash gauges, a newspaper (for the date), and then the display of the app screens (close enough to be able to read them and the VIN), in the case you need some evidence for the future.

 

[GerryAZ]

I suspect you will lose capacity bars rapidly if you keep driving it because the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers look like my 2011 with 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery. You may qualify for a new battery if you drive it enough to get the bars to disappear. We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells. There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

Gerry

 

[VenatorFox]

I suspect you will lose capacity bars rapidly if you keep driving it because the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers look like my 2011 with 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery. You may qualify for a new battery if you drive it enough to get the bars to disappear. We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells. There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

Gerry

Okay, Ill drive it until GOM displays dashes, and get LeafSpy screenshots.
Ill then override the 80% to get it to charge to 100%, and get screenshots. It will only take 13 hours to charge, according to the car.

If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
You can tell us the Ahr, SOH and Hx numbers now w/o fully charging the car. It shouldn't matter. You will see those numbers vary a little bit and it seems we've learned that long trips improve SOH and/or Hx, a bit. It might improve a bit with a 100% charge or two...

IIRC, I've seen SOH and Hx values vary between ~89% and ~91% in the time I've owned my used '13 Leaf (was a lease return). I've owned it since mid-July 2015. Its build date was 5/2013 and its first in-service date was late 6/2013.

I had an in-person conversation w/Turbo3 (author of Leaf Spy, who has an '11 IIRC) a few weeks ago and he mentioned that the delta of cell voltages between the highest and lowest voltage (mV) gets really high (hundreds of millivolts) as the battery's near dead (low SoC). He mentioned he uses that as an aid to determine how close he is to running out.

 

[cwerdna]

We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells.

Yep.

There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

There has been more than 1, IIRC. Here's 1: http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html and http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/12/update-saga-of-vin-222-resolved.html. The latter also shows the crap battery report sheet.

Well, re: fighting... as long as the car's goes back to being a 4+ capacity bar loser BEFORE the 5 year/60K mile mark, OP should be able to get a replacement. The moment it hits 4 bars, if you're close to either mark, stop immediately and have it towed to the dealer. Do NOT let it pass either mark if you get down to 4+ CBs lost.

 

[dm33]

If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?

To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

 

[GerryAZ]

To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

VenatorFox asked why someone would reset it. A couple more possibilities: Unscrupulous used car dealer did not know about retroactive capacity warranty for 2011 and 2012 models or original owner opted out of the class action suit and warranty coverage is questionable.

This is one of the reasons we need to check for weak cells because weak cells are covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles regardless of the capacity warranty status.

Gerry

 

[VenatorFox]

If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?

To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

Since someone reset it, I would need to drive the car until the bars disappear again to become re-eligible for warranty, is that correct?
According to that article it would take a few months for it to "undo" the reset as it re-calibrates.

I think I'm just going to take it back to the dealer tomorrow with these findings.

 

[GerryAZ]

You are correct--to get coverage under the capacity warranty requires the capacity bar display to be down to 8 or fewer bars showing. The defect warranty which would apply to weak cells does not require the loss of capacity bars. If there is some record of the capacity bar reset, you might have a chance to get a replacement battery without waiting for the bars to drop. Still, your best course of action might be to return it and let the selling dealer address the issue.

Good luck,
Gerry

 

[knightmb]

To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

Since someone reset it, I would need to drive the car until the bars disappear again to become re-eligible for warranty, is that correct?
According to that article it would take a few months for it to "undo" the reset as it re-calibrates.

I think I'm just going to take it back to the dealer tomorrow with these findings.

It might be a blessing in disguise because if the vehicle does qualify for the battery replacement, as others have mentioned, it would score you a brand new $5500 battery and top range once again. You have enough people here giving you advice and all of really good, so my only $0.02 is determine what the issue is with the car (one bad cell vs. entire pack is bad) to decide which path will gain you the most for the vehicle.

 

[grandizer52]

To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

VenatorFox asked why someone would reset it. A couple more possibilities: Unscrupulous used car dealer did not know about retroactive capacity warranty for 2011 and 2012 models or original owner opted out of the class action suit and warranty coverage is questionable.

This is one of the reasons we need to check for weak cells because weak cells are covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles regardless of the capacity warranty status.

Gerry

Hea guys, I got a 2011, got some help translating leafspy I get 44% fully charged SOC, I still have 9 bars, can leaf spy hold weight against the dealer to get the battery replaced?

 

[derkraut]

IMHO, Leaf Spy means nothing to Nissan or the dealer. It is not a factory manufactured device. The only way you're going to get a new battery at no charge is you LOSE your 9th bar prior to 5yrs AND less than 60K miles on the ODO.

 

[dm33]

IMHO, Leaf Spy means nothing to Nissan or the dealer. It is not a factory manufactured device. The only way you're going to get a new battery at no charge is you LOSE your 9th bar prior to 5yrs AND less than 60K miles on the ODO.

And for those that don't realize the importance of 5 yrs and 60k miles, there is/was an owner on this site who drove to the dealer and ended up literally two miles over 60,000 miles and they refused to replace the battery. So the warning does not come lightly.

 

[grandizer52]

IMHO, Leaf Spy means nothing to Nissan or the dealer. It is not a factory manufactured device. The only way you're going to get a new battery at no charge is you LOSE your 9th bar prior to 5yrs AND less than 60K miles on the ODO.

And for those that don't realize the importance of 5 yrs and 60k miles, there is/was an owner on this site who drove to the dealer and ended up literally two miles over 60,000 miles and they refused to replace the battery. So the warning does not come lightly.

the week I got my 11 i went to the dealer to get it checked. I'm at 29,999, and have 5 months left on warranty. leaf spy says bar #9 is dangling

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yeah, but the guy just put down some big change on a car that has less than half of the capacity that it should... He should not wait for anything. If a Nissan dealer is far, then have it towed there (regardless of cost) --- Nissan is the maker of the vehicle and can "document" the condition of the car, and THEN you can go from there...

Wasting time to "check things with Leafspy" is not a productive use of time. It is like waiting for the surgical instruments to come in the mail when you need an operation and you want to try to operate on yourself!! The Nissan dealer would be the only one to "document" the state of the battery and give an explanation (documentable) on how 12 bars of charge only gives 35 miles of range........

This might seem like a reasonable argument, so it bears some rebutting. Nissan dealers can do nothing more than look at the dash display to determine warranty status, while Leaf Spy can actually determine the state of the pack. It's true that if you are showing 8 bars you need to get the car directly to a Nissan dealer before 60k miles, even if it means having it towed there. But for a car showing 10 or more bars, the dealer will be of zero (or worse) help. The real issue that's probably going to arise here is the validity of the dash display vs the info coming from the diagnostic port and being interpreted by leaf Spy. Since the cars with reset BMS seem to always revert to their real status in a matter of weeks, in contradiction of the initial dash display readings, it should be possible for a lawyer to establish that fraud can and does occur in these situations.

 

[Evoforce]

Well, since it is a 2012, you should have plenty of time to let it loose all of it's bars and get a brand new battery, providing it is under 60,000 miles and not opted out. You may have inadvertently won the battery lottery! If you can stand the lack of miles while the gauges take time to reset themselves, you will have a like new car with a free new battery once you are all done. Plenty have purposely put themselves in this position. Of course, they were not tricked into it like you were. Time to call or go to a Nissan Dealer to get some vehicle info and make sure it wasn't opted out.

 

[cwerdna]

IMHO, Leaf Spy means nothing to Nissan or the dealer. It is not a factory manufactured device. The only way you're going to get a new battery at no charge is you LOSE your 9th bar prior to 5yrs AND less than 60K miles on the ODO.

+1

By opt out, we're talking about http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17045. I don't know the final status as a bunch of stuff happened later where people could opt back in. It's a long story that I haven't followed carefully since it doesn't apply to me.

And for those that don't realize the importance of 5 yrs and 60k miles, there is/was an owner on this site who drove to the dealer and ended up literally two miles over 60,000 miles and they refused to replace the battery. So the warning does not come lightly.

For reference, we're talking about http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20725. I just noticed today he made an edit to his OP stating that Nissan finally came thru, after his writing to Nissan execs. Whew!

 

[VenatorFox]

We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells.

Yep.

There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

There has been more than 1, IIRC. Here's 1: http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html and http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/12/update-saga-of-vin-222-resolved.html. The latter also shows the crap battery report sheet.

Well, re: fighting... as long as the car's goes back to being a 4+ capacity bar loser BEFORE the 5 year/60K mile mark, OP should be able to get a replacement. The moment it hits 4 bars, if you're close to either mark, stop immediately and have it towed to the dealer. Do NOT let it pass either mark if you get down to 4+ CBs lost.

As suggested, I drove it until it went into neutral to discharge it, and pushed it into an EV parking space. I drove around in circles on the Hy-vee parking lot at 3 in the morning. Pretty sure that didn't look odd at all.

Here are the screenshots:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Thanks! We didn't need a few of the screens like elevation and charging power.

Re: the "weak cells" listed and the big delta (I alluded to it at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447143#p447143), I don't run my car that low, so I don't know if that's "normal" when you run the car until power cut. Can someone chime in about the criteria that a dealer would use for a bad cell replacement? If not, seems one would need to skim results from Googling for stuff like these:
site:mynissanleaf.com weak cell test
site:mynissanleaf.com cvli
site:mynissanleaf.com cell voltage inspection

There's NO way that car should have all 12 capacity bars. At least we (or I) now have some confirmation that a reset of the BMS to reset the capacity bars doesn't reset SOH and Hx. IIRC, the only legitimate reason for a dealer to reset it is if the pack is replaced. (Nissan corporate did reset it on a Phoenix Leaf that lost a bunch of CBs years ago... long story.)

You may want to skim http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19739. I don't follow since I haven't even lost 1 capacity bar yet and may not have my Leaf long enough to lose 3 or 4 of them. If http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=445294#p445294 is correct, then you should already have a 4 bar loser, and you'll just have to wait for the BMS to relearn the battery and shed those CBs. I wonder if your car has P3227 applied.

You have 1 low tire and the others you might want to inflate a bit higher than door placard pressure to help w/range and head off edge wear.

Do you know the original in service date of the car? That's when the 5 year/60K mile clock started ticking.

Side note: I found http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=18539 on the car that DaveinOlyWA wrote on his blog about.