evnow
Well-known member
Reaction from the hybrid side ...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?7918
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?7918
You should have left it without the MPG calculation. The Volt gets somewhere around 35 miles per gallon when using the gas engine. The rest of the time it uses battery power. That does not equate to anything other than roughly 35 miles per gallon of gasoline. The Toyota Prius does not get 50 MPG. It gets something less because some power is provided by a battery. As plug-in Hybrids become more common, we will continue to see ever inflating gasoline miles per gallon numbers. These will all be inaccurate unless and until there comes a way to measure how much energy is provided by gasoline and how much energy is provided by battery. But the marketing types have already paved the way with Prius, so all future hybrids, plugin or otherwise, will just continue to provide inflated miles per gallon.LEAFer said:A friend of mine has had a Volt for 4.5 months: almost 3,600 miles and a total of 2.6 gallons consumed ( that's 1,384 MPG so far, and a projected 9,600 miles per year ).
Edit: I substituted my memory recall numbers with the actual numbers in above paragraph, and added the MPG calculation.
Uh, yeah it does. Unless you can plug it in - it gets all it's energy from gas so if it gets 50 MPG - it gets 50 MPG. For example - cruise at a steady 65 mph on flat land and your Prius will get about 50 mpg. You could remove the hybrid components and it would still get 50 mpg - when cruising the Prius does not use the battery to any significant degree.LEAFguy said:The Toyota Prius does not get 50 MPG. It gets something less because some power is provided by a battery.
So looks like he could have done with an EV instead of a PHEV.LEAFer said:A friend of mine has had a Volt for 4.5 months: almost 3,600 miles and a total of 2.6 gallons consumed ( that's 1,384 MPG so far, and a projected 9,600 miles per year ).
Ah man, why did I click on that link? I went over there and read posts likeevnow said:Reaction from the hybrid side ...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?7918
:shock:Yes the Volt doesn't use gas but, depending on where you live, the Leaf may end up emitting more pollution and emissions.
Exactly.. he could have driven the same 3,600 miles in a LEAF with 0 gallons, which would be INFINITE MPG.. my calculator exploded.evnow said:So looks like he could have done with an EV instead of a PHEV.LEAFer said:A friend of mine has had a Volt for 4.5 months: almost 3,600 miles and a total of 2.6 gallons consumed ( that's 1,384 MPG so far, and a projected 9,600 miles per year ).
Not necessarily. He might have used that 2.6 gallons for one trip of 125 miles. If he drove the LEAF instead and thought he could make it, but didn't, the tow truck could easily have used 5 gallons of diesel while rescuing him.GroundLoop said:Exactly.. he could have driven the same 3,600 miles in a LEAF with 0 gallons, which would be INFINITE MPG.. my calculator exploded.evnow said:So looks like he could have done with an EV instead of a PHEV.LEAFer said:A friend of mine has had a Volt for 4.5 months: almost 3,600 miles and a total of 2.6 gallons consumed ( that's 1,384 MPG so far, and a projected 9,600 miles per year ).
Hmm.. there's that.planet4ever said:Not necessarily. He might have used that 2.6 gallons for one trip of 125 miles. If he drove the LEAF instead and thought he could make it, but didn't, the tow truck could easily have used 5 gallons of diesel while rescuing him.
Leaving out the nonsense about the Prius, which drees already corrected you on, you are right that you need to allow for the electrical energy. But you are wrong in your "unless and until" assertion. This has already been measured and computed, and the answer is on the Volt's official sticker: 37 MPG on gas, 93 MPGE on electricity. So the Volt that went "almost 3600 miles" on 2.6 gallons of gas must have traveled about 3500 miles on electricity. At that ratio the gas component is lost in the rounding error, but if you insist, 3500/97 = 36.1 gallons of "e-gas". Combining, (3600 miles) / (36.1 + 2.6) = 93 MPGE uninflated.LEAFguy said:The Volt gets somewhere around 35 miles per gallon when using the gas engine. The rest of the time it uses battery power. That does not equate to anything other than roughly 35 miles per gallon of gasoline. The Toyota Prius does not get 50 MPG. It gets something less because some power is provided by a battery. As plug-in Hybrids become more common, we will continue to see ever inflating gasoline miles per gallon numbers. These will all be inaccurate unless and until there comes a way to measure how much energy is provided by gasoline and how much energy is provided by battery. But the marketing types have already paved the way with Prius, so all future hybrids, plugin or otherwise, will just continue to provide inflated miles per gallon.
planet4ever said:Not necessarily. He might have used that 2.6 gallons for one trip of 125 miles. If he drove the LEAF instead and thought he could make it, but didn't, the tow truck could easily have used 5 gallons of diesel while rescuing him.
Ray
No - engine doesn't need to start. What Volt does is to start the engine once in 6 months to burn the stale gas.DaveinOlyWA said:it must start up even when it wont be going farther than its EV range, correct? so the 2.6 gallons could have been burned at the rate of a few ounces at a time every time it started.
Well, that is the "my friend is an idiot" argumentplanet4ever said:Not necessarily. He might have used that 2.6 gallons for one trip of 125 miles. If he drove the LEAF instead and thought he could make it, but didn't, the tow truck could easily have used 5 gallons of diesel while rescuing him.
evnow said:No - engine doesn't need to start. What Volt does is to start the engine once in 6 months to burn the stale gas.DaveinOlyWA said:it must start up even when it wont be going farther than its EV range, correct? so the 2.6 gallons could have been burned at the rate of a few ounces at a time every time it started.
Another way to look at it is that the friend brought a very short range EV and decided to drag along a very heavy gas generator everywhere he went just in case he exceeded his range. While it appears a few times he did exceed his range and had to use the generator, he may have not had to if he had a larger battery, with say a 100 or even 73 mile range. It should be noted that dragging the heavy generator everywhere reduces the efficiency of his use of electric power. In fact, if he had left the generator at home he might have had enough extra range for those few occasions where he would have used the generator, to not have needed it.evnow said:So looks like he could have done with an EV instead of a PHEV.LEAFer said:A friend of mine has had a Volt for 4.5 months: almost 3,600 miles and a total of 2.6 gallons consumed ( that's 1,384 MPG so far, and a projected 9,600 miles per year ).
evnow said:No - engine doesn't need to start. What Volt does is to start the engine once in 6 months to burn the stale gas.DaveinOlyWA said:it must start up even when it wont be going farther than its EV range, correct? so the 2.6 gallons could have been burned at the rate of a few ounces at a time every time it started.
I stand corrected. (Apparently I was just feeling really contentious right around then (and wasn't really thinking, either...))drees said:Uh, yeah it does. Unless you can plug it in - it gets all it's energy from gas so if it gets 50 MPG - it gets 50 MPG. For example - cruise at a steady 65 mph on flat land and your Prius will get about 50 mpg. You could remove the hybrid components and it would still get 50 mpg - when cruising the Prius does not use the battery to any significant degree.LEAFguy said:The Toyota Prius does not get 50 MPG. It gets something less because some power is provided by a battery.
I said "around 35" initially, only because I didn't feel like looking it up. I knew it was mid-30's. And just as with the LEAF, or a Ford F350, your mileage WILL vary, depending on driving conditions and driving style. Nothing new there. Some will likely get 35 or less, just as some may get 40.LEAFer said:Yes, the Volt gets 35[sic] mpg. Actually the EPA claim is 37. And it easily achieves better than that (like 40) in mixed driving, because the regen gives you just a little "juice" which it then uses on the next acceleration cycle (where the gas engine is inefficient).
Ray, I never said anything about the efficiency of the Volt while running on electricity. Only that the gasoline and electric components needed to be accounted for separately. So I guess I contradicted myself with the "unless and until" statement, as this has already been determined. The only thing that threw me with your response was the 3500/97. Where did the 97 come from? Thanksplanet4ever said:At that ratio the gas component is lost in the rounding error, but if you insist, 3500/97 = 36.1 gallons of "e-gas". Combining, (3600 miles) / (36.1 + 2.6) = 93 MPGE uninflated. Sorry, LEAFguy, but that is a very respectable number, and only about 6% lower than what the official LEAF sticker claims.
To set the record straight - GM started this whole thing.MrFish said:So, in the immortal words of Rodney, "can't we all get along?"
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