New guy says thanks

[Leptons]

Thanks to this forum, I'm becoming a Leaf Pilot.

I've been in the aircraft systems business -- more specifically, aircraft electric power -- for a number of years, with a brief detour into nuclear and petrochemical/chemical refining. (Consequently the Forum gets yet another self-professed "energy expert"!)

My involvement in these businesses led to an obsession with auto propulsion technologies, which in many ways are well ahead of the aerospace curve. The Leaf, Volt, and Tesla each caught my eye from the start; I came dangerously close to buying an orphan Th!ink City from a dealer in Chicago who had picked up some bankruptcy leftovers. But I couldn't really make sense of bringing an EV into the family (correction: I couldn't convince my wife).

But thanks to lease-swapping web sites and the wealth of information from this forum, the consensus building is done, and my cherry 2012 SL will load onto a truck in CA in the next week or so. I'll be running on L1 for awhile; 240 to the garage will be part of a complete panel redo in the spring. With a daily commute of 10km each way I should be fine, even in the snow and related local winter misery.

I'll keep you posted. In the meantime thanks to all who've educated me so well.

 

[WetEV]

Welcome, and enjoy!

 

[TimLee]

But thanks to lease-swapping web sites and the wealth of information from this forum, the consensus building is done, and my cherry 2012 SL will load onto a truck in CA in the next week or so.

Welcome to the LEAF world :!: :!:
Could you elaborate further on the lease-swapping deal you are doing?

 

[Leptons]

Re: lease swapping... (I've also received a couple of messages on this topic; hope this answer addresses everyone's needs)

Ultimately I used SwapALease, primarily because they had a decent selection and not just a bunch of overpriced dealer ads.

It's important to note that none of these sites really executes the process for you. They are all pretty much Match.com for lease exchanges. In other words, you could still end up meeting a fetishist with unusual needs. They simply post potential matches.

In a nutshell, it works like this:
(1) Go on the site and look around. If you find potential matches, you then need to "join" to get in touch with the current lessee.

(2) As a shopper, you pay a fee (about $50, as I recall), and with that they will make the lessees' contact info (name, address, etc) available to you for whatever interests you. [IMPORTANT: Your fee is pretty much unrefundable, period. It should be clear that unless you see plenty of attractive potential mates, you should probably not spend the money.]

(3) You contact the lessee and make a deal. There are potential disappointments at this point as well. The first prospect that piqued my interest never answered any mails, calls, or texts. I have also read in various forums that sometimes SwapALease is "slow" to take down the ads for lease candidates that have been completed or withdrawn. (My "Leasing Specialist" assures me they do their best to keep the listings up-to-date.) I don't think my particular instance of failure to connect fell into this category, but just be aware that there may be a listing or two that just isn't going to happen.

(4) What you come up with in your negotiation is between the two of you. Recognize, however, that the terms of the lease are immutable. The lessee cannot offer to lower the rate. He CAN, of course, pay you an incentive, underwrite application fees (see (5) below), transport costs, or other concession that, on an amortized basis, reduces your lease payment.

(5) So now you've made your proposal and your future mate accepts. But you're not finished: you need Daddy's permission. The lessee contacts the lessor (Nissan-Infiniti) to open the door for contact with you. Nissan mails you (that's right: 3rd class MAIL) a poor xerox of a credit application that you fill out and return, along with a cashier's check for $272.50. This tidy sum covers the "cost" of processing your application, and is non-refundable, whether you are approved or not. I understand they are picky (740 or so is the floor), which won't be a problem for most, but if you're borderline, you are putting that check at risk.

(6) And now you wait for Nissan to process the application. This may take 7-10 working days. (They are in no hurry because they ALREADY HAVE A LESSEE who is obligated to the Terms of the lease. As a matter of fact, even after they approve the transfer and you are happily motoring on electrons, the original Lessee is still ultimately liable for the remission of payments. So this looks nothing like a new car purchase from a dealer in which you can be approved for a $100k credit transaction and driving out the door in a couple of hours. Please note that SwapALease controls NONE of this activity, nor do they profit from the exorbitant fee. Even if you find a swap here at this Forum, you will go though the same wickets.

(7) Nissan will contact the Lessee with approval notice and then MAIL the transfer agreement to him. The lessee then sends it to you for signature, proof of insurance, etc. Then the physical transfer can take place. (I'm still awaiting the agreement on my end, but my lessee is motivated and will expedite from his end.)

(8) FYI I will be paying $280/mo for 26 months on a 2012 with 4000 mi and a 12-bar battery. Right now the site is showing another '12 for $240/mo.

Lemme know if I missed anything.

 

[kikbuti]

I believe that you can lease a brand new Leaf for 24 months for about the same amount of money... maybe a little more, but not much more.

 

[Leptons]

kikbuti:

I agree, you can, but I chose this one instead because...
(a) every new under-$300/mo deal I found also required a fairly substantial (>$2500) down payment, and
(b) I didn't want a car from the first-year run of Smyrna. It's not that I think Tennessee folks can't build cars. But this is an enormous manufacturing transition accompanied by a number of component piece-part cost reductions and sourcing changes. As much as I trust Nissan (this will be my 3rd), I have seen too many significant quality impacts in transitions like this. Some of the component infant mortality on early '13s seems to bear out this caution.

Without a doubt there have been better deals in the past (and probably better ones to come), but a no-down payment lease for under $300 on a proven Oppama-built car with low miles + excellent battery suits me OK. I just missed one with 6000 miles at $218. Now there was a deal.

 

[TimLee]

(They are in no hurry because they ALREADY HAVE A LESSEE who is obligated to the Terms of the lease. As a matter of fact, even after they approve the transfer and you are happily motoring on electrons, the original Lessee is still ultimately liable for the remission of payments.
Lemme know if I missed anything.

Thank you for the very well done, very informative response.
I still don't understand how lease swapping doesn't still carry a very large significant risk, if the person you make a swap with fails to carry out their end of the bargain.
If the person you swap with fails to make the payments, aren't you still left holding a very big very costly bag?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

^ Yeah, the guy taking over the lease doesn't appear to be taking any risk but boy sure sounds like the original guy is. What if the new guy not only fails to make the payments but also trashes the car?

 

[Leptons]

TimLee and LTLFT:

It's true: although I "agree to assume all right, interest, and obligations of the Transferor [the guy giving up the lease] as detailed in the above-described Lease, and to honor the requirements set forth in said lease", right underneath that is the following clause:

"Transferor [the guy giving up the lease] hereby guarantees the prompt and unconditional payment, performance, and discharge of all Transferee's obligations under this agreement covering the specific lease, and covenants that in the event of default in any of said obligations thereunder, to pay upon demand the full amount remaining unpaid thereunder..." etc.

Clearly, if I were indeed as big a tool as my kids have occasionally stated, then I could really make life hard for the gentleman who signed over the car. This is probably one of the key reasons that Nissan makes the credit hurdle about as high as required for a mortgage in the post-Crash era. Dragging payment out of the Transferor would be problematic regardless of the contract.

Also, the Transferor does have solid ground for serious legal action against a derelict Transferee, including recovery of attorney and court fees. So, were I inclined to such nefarious acts, I still wouldn't do it because the consequences would be worse than a simple loan or lease default.