New breakthrough in gasoline powered fuel cells

[GeekEV]

Now we're talking. Not only could this provide an effective range extender (while maintaining some semblance of environmentalism), it may displace ICEs as the primary way to consume gas - if it truly doubles the effiency as they claim. All of which would hasten the conversion of the market to EVs since even gas cars would be electric at heart. I'd often wondered of this was possible, now I know!

Read all about it:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070251_gasoline-powered-fuel-cell-to-fix-electric-car-range-anxiety" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Drivesolo]

Very cool. Sounds like a more affordable and compact version of a Bloom Box. Looking forward to see where this goes.

 

[adric22]

The problem with this is you have to compare the cost of this system compared with the cost of a combustion engine paired with a generator, much like the Chevy Volt. If you are talking about using it only as a range extender then the idea becomes that you would still want to drive your car as an EV as often as possible and only use the range extender when there is no other choice. Sure, the fuel cell would be far more efficient but if it is something that is rarely used anyway, the efficiency isn't that important. Hence the reason GM probably didn't bat an eyelid much to the miserable fuel economy of the Volt as compared with a Prius. After all, if I owned a Volt, I'd probably use the range extender once or twice a year so the fuel economy isn't that important. So I think cost of the range extender is probably paramount.

I actually think an ideal range extender would probably use a smaller engine/generator pair. Maybe even a turbine engine. It wouldn't be able to produce enough power for hard acceleration, it would only be able to provide a steady stream of constant power to keep the batteries somewhat charged. Any hard acceleration would have to use the batteries.

 

[Herm]

The Bloom box is another example of a SOFC such as described in the article.. it mentions twice the efficiency of an ICE but that could mean 44% efficiency.. a Prius Atkinson ICE already is running at 38% efficiency and Toyota is talking about improvements.. you may actually end up with a smaller, more durable, fewer moving parts and cheaper range-extender if you just used a Prius ICE optimized for a single power level.

Good article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_oxide_fuel_cell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It may be a while before an automotive SOFC beats an atkinson ICE genset, but tech keeps advancing. A methane SOFC such as the bloom box promises to be the simplest, but it requires methane that is free of sulfur..

 

[Herm]

Hence the reason GM probably didn't bat an eyelid much to the miserable fuel economy of the Volt as compared with a Prius.

The Prius is much lighter, and that affects economy. The Volt's mpg in the hybrid mode is pretty darn good, 37mpg combined... and its nearly 4000lbs.

 

[adric22]

Hence the reason GM probably didn't bat an eyelid much to the miserable fuel economy of the Volt as compared with a Prius.

The Prius is much lighter, and that affects economy. The Volt's mpg in the hybrid mode is pretty darn good, 37mpg combined... and its nearly 4000lbs.

Yes, pretty darned good compared to a non-hybrid vehicle. But being the Volt has some really advanced technology and can do regenerative breaking, etc... most people would have expected more. GM themselves have said that the fuel economy could have been better but they wanted to use an off-the-shelf engine. I would imagine future versions of the Volt will get much better fuel economy.

 

[Herm]

... most people would have expected more.

People are like that, they also expect 30mpg out of an SUV on the hwy doing 75mph.. and complain bitterly if its not achieved.

The whole point of the Volt is the BEV mode, the hybrid mode is just for occasional and rare use... think of it as range insurance.

Lets look at a Ford Fusion Hybrid vs a Volt, we will only look at the hybrid mode and ignore the BEV mode for fairness. The Fusion is considered one of the best hybrids in the non-econobox category.

Fusion is 3720lbs.. rated 41mpg in the city and 36mpg in the hwy
Volt is 3781lbs.. rated at 35mpg city and 40mpg hwy.
Prius is 3042lbs.. rated at 51mpg city and 48mpg on the hwy.

I think the Prius is a great car, but the Volt is not bad.. but it could afford to lose a few lbs and perhaps increase rear passenger room a bit.

 

[evnow]

People are like that, they also expect 30mpg out of an SUV on the hwy doing 75mph.. and complain bitterly if its not achieved.

Not just a question of People's expectations - see early statements by Bob Lutz to see why people started having those expectations.