Need assistance, Leaf used for aquarium home backup power

[vgonzalez]

Hi Team,
In preparation for this week 2nd PG&E meter install, my house will be out of power for several hours, I do have two 50 gallon aquariums that will need to have power at all times, my question: here attached is a picture showing the connections, is this the correct Leaf to DC/AC inverter hookup, the leaf is on acc mode, pls advice. I tested the setup for several hrs with no problems, but you never know.

 

[vgonzalez]

Here are the information on the two combined fish tank loads:
2 heaters = 300 watts (not active all the time)
2 filters = 60 watts
2 air pumps = 30 watts
Total = 380 watts

 

[TonyWilliams]

Looks good!

 

[Deleted member 3147]

the leaf is on acc mode, pls advice.

Do not leave the car in accessory mode. In this mode, the HV systems are not running and your 12V battery is on it's own! Turn the car on to make sure the HV systems will keep the 12V battery charged.

 

[iluvmacs]

the leaf is on acc mode, pls advice.

Do not leave the car in accessory mode. In this mode, the HV systems are not running and your 12V battery is on it's own! Turn the car on to make sure the HV systems will keep the 12V battery charged.

You can, however, leave it in IG-ON mode (two presses on power button). That will energize the system as needed to keep the 12V up. You'll see it start flashing one of the blue charging lights on the dash when it is running the 12V charger. I've left my car on in this mode to show off the car for a few hours at a car show without having it in Ready mode (i.e. ready to drive over a person in front of it... :lol: )

 

[MikeD]

iluvmacs: Your understanding of the "On" 12-volt battery charging capability seems to agree with the 2012 and 2013 Owner's Manual, but NOT with what is stated in the 2011 Owner's Manual.

From the 2013 Leaf Owner's Manual (same as in 2012 Manual):

CHARGING THE 12-VOLT BATTERY
The 12-volt battery is charged automatically using electricity stored in the Li-ion battery. When the 12-volt battery is being charged, the charge status indicator light on the instrument panel flashes. (except when charging the Li-ion battery or the power switch is in the READY to drive position.) See Charge status indicator light in the Charge section.

While vehicle is driven
The Li-ion battery charges the 12-volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position or ON position. The 12-volt battery is not charged in the following conditions.
• When the power switch is in ACC position.
• When the power switch is in ON position and shift position is in the N (Neutal) position.

While the vehicle is not in use
When the EV (Electric Vehicle) system is off for an extended time, the 12-volt battery may be automatically charged for a short period of time on a regular basis.

From the 2011 Leaf Owner's Manual:

CHARGING THE 12-VOLT BATTERY

While vehicle is driven
The Li-ion battery charges the 12-volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position.

While the vehicle is not in use
When the EV (Electric Vehicle) system is off, the 12-volt battery charges automatically for 5 minutes every 5 days. The charge timing resets to 5 days without charging the 12-volt battery if:
. The vehicle is placed in the READY to drive position for more than 5 minutes.
. The Li-ion battery is charged for more than 5 minutes.
When charging the 12-volt battery, the charge status indicator light on the instrument panel illuminates. See “Charging status indicator lights” in the “CH. Charging” section.

I checked with Customer Support and they confirmed that the 2011 Owner's Manual is correct in this matter about the 2011 Leaf's 12v battery charging behavior.

 

[smkettner]

I am thinking the fish would survive just fine for 8 to 12 hours without power.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just put a hot brick in there.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am thinking the fish would survive just fine for 8 to 12 hours without power.

ah ya, right.

depends upon a lot of things that none of us but the OP knows about. I know people with $5,000 tanks (fish and all) and its like saying your dog will be ok for 10-12 hours in a blizzard, its a very personal decision.

 

[Ingineer]

You have the inverter correctly wired, though be warned it appears you have not fused the positive lead.

The 12v battery will go dead unless the car is in ready mode (Green car icon lit) or when charging. Bottom line is unless the main contactor is closed, the 12v battery is "on it's own" as others mention. You can hear the main contactor close as the "clunk-clunk-CLUNK" noise under the car when charging/ready.

The 12v battery by itself will put out only a few hundred watt-hours before it gives up, whereas once the main contactor is closed, the traction pack is online keeping the 12v system charging, so you then have over 20,000 watt-hours on tap. I think a fully charged Leaf should have no problem running the aquarium load for over a day with your inverter setup.

-Phil

 

[MikeD]

Ingineer: iluvmacs' post is correct concerning when the 12v battery will be recharged if OP's Leaf is a 2012 and your's is correct if it is a 2011, I think (see my last post). For a 2011 Leaf, Nissan documents (and CS confirms) that the 12-battery will not recharge in "On" mode (unless the main battery is charging, I think), but for later Leafs, it will.

BTW, are there any visual clues that can sometimes allow one to differentiate between 2011 and 2012 Leafs?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

BTW, are there any visual clues that can sometimes allow one to differentiate between 2011 and 2012 Leafs?

From the inside of the car, sure.

1) The 2012 is missing the button to disable the pedestrian alert
2) The 2012 has switches for the heated steering wheel / seats

I don't know about from the outside, though.

 

[greengate]

If you don't want to risk drawing down the main battery on the Leaf, here are a couple of tother options:

1. "Borrow" a 12 V deep cycle battery from Sears, (charge it up,) and see how long it takes to run it down. If it is within your projected out of service time frame, (or do the P=EI math to determine the results.

2. Buy 2 6 volt golf cart batteries, wire them in series to receive 12 volts and do the same as above. It will, of course be much longer. If still not within your OOS range, put up a solar panel or two and a charge controller and you will be able to sleep in the darkness without concern for the fish!!

 

[iluvmacs]

BTW, are there any visual clues that can sometimes allow one to differentiate between 2011 and 2012 Leafs?

From the inside of the car, sure.

1) The 2012 is missing the button to disable the pedestrian alert
2) The 2012 has switches for the heated steering wheel / seats

I don't know about from the outside, though.

Late 2011's had the Cold Weather package, adding the same heated seats & wheel switches. So you can't use that to differentiate MY. The '12 is also missing the glove box light, but that's a little more work to go check ;-). No exterior differences to my knowledge. Best indicator is the VSP disable button.

 

[Ingineer]

I can't yet comment on the 2013's, but the 2011 and 2012 behave exactly the same, when not in ready, the 12v is discharging. Since the DC-DC converter that keeps this charged is under the hood, the main battery contactor inside the battery box MUST be closed in order to enable 12v charging. It's easy enough to hear this close, and on every 2012 I have checked, it DOES NOT close in "on" mode.

Try it for yourself. Do not trust bad advice in the forum from inexperienced people.

-Phil

 

[smkettner]

You can always check voltage to verify. 12.6 or less is not getting a charge from the big battery.

 

[MikeD]

iluvmacs: Do you still stand behind your post about your car's charging behavior? Any 2013 owner's interested in running a test on this issue?

 

[iluvmacs]

iluvmacs: Do you still stand behind your post about your car's charging behavior? Any 2013 owner's interested in running a test on this issue?

Absolutely. As I said, I was showing my Leaf at a car show, and I most definitely had it in ON (not Ready) mode. It was not plugged in. After 20 or 30 minutes (?), it went clunk-clunk-clunk as the contactors closed, and the blue light on the dash was on. It remained this way until the car was powered off.

 

[MikeD]

Ingineer: Another possibility, of course, is that a change in the Leaf's charging behavior occurred sometime during the 2012 model year, and if so, probably beginning with a certain vin serial number (and all after that). There is no question about a change in documentation concerning this issue in the 2012 Leaf Owner's Manual.

[Edit update] I checked with Leaf Customer Support again and they confirmed that all of their information indicates there was no mid-year change introduced in regard to this issue, i.e. all 2012 Leafs will begin charging in "On" mode, if the battery needs it (in situations similar to what iluvmacs experienced).

 

[MikeD]

In the 2012 Leaf Owner's Manual (same as in 2013 on page CH-35) it reads on page CH-28:

"CHARGING STATUS INDICATOR LIGHTS
.
.
.
When the indicator light (3) [the one closes to driver's side] flashes
The indicator light (3) flashes when the 12-volt battery is being charged. See“Charging the 12-volt battery” in the “Overview” section.

The indicator will also flash for up to 5 minutes if the electrical power to the EVSE is interrupted during charging. Charging will restart automatically when the electrical power to the EVSE is restored if the charging connector is connected. The charge start beep will not sound when charging restarts.

The indicator will also flash when the following system are operating:
. Climate Ctrl. Timer
. Remote climate control
. Li-ion battery heater"

On page EV-5 of the EV Overview section (same as in 2013 Owner's Manual):
"CHARGING THE 12-VOLT BATTERY
.
.
.
While the vehicle is not in use
When the EV (Electric Vehicle) system is off for an extended time, the 12-volt battery may be automatically charged for a short period of time on a regular basis."

[This "on a regular basis" MAY (or may not) follow the more detailed description from page EV-5 of the 2011 Owner's Manual:
"While the vehicle is not in use
When the EV (Electric Vehicle) system is off, the 12-volt battery charges automatically for 5 minutes every 5 days. The charge timing resets to 5 days without charging the 12-volt battery if:
. The vehicle is placed in the READY to drive position for more than 5 minutes.
. The Li-ion battery is charged for more than 5 minutes.
When charging the 12-volt battery, the charge status indicator light on the instrument panel illuminates. See “Charging status indicator lights” in the “CH. Charging” section."]

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SUMMATION:
I'm not sure, but I think the single driver's side flashing blue light may be an indicator that although 1) the car is not in "Ready" mode, yet 2) the main battery pack is powering something (except possibly when the charging session has been interrupted?). I'm trying to simplify here (the complete explanation may require something like a flow chart!).

So it seems the Leaf can power up (i.e. engage the main battery pack) to do various things like heat its battery pack, heat its interior, and charge its 12v battery, and some of it can occur at any time (at least at any time it has been programmed to do so -- this part is not always evident).