National charge network

[Zythryn]

Ok Tesla is a bit faster but the primary advantage is the larger capacity battery in the car itself. No real magic to the charging stations. CHAdeMO would be far more viable if LEAF had a 200 mile epa rating.

Yep it's not magic. 10 kw charger and a larger battery pack sure are nice though.

I agree it would be great if the range of the Leaf was 200 miles but it's unfortunately not yet. I'm sure it will be in a few years and the same will go for the other evs out there. Infrastructure still needs to get set up so that anyone no matter what their potential range or type of ev it is is can take advantage of it. It's simple, you have to two plugs on the station. 1 for chad connector and 1 for SAE connector that way any car can connected. Tesla already has their own stations that their owners could use or they develop an adaptor to use these two types.

thoughts?

On a positive note, it looks like the petition I started is seeing some more people sign it. Only 38 now but it was 23 last night so thats quite a lot over night.

I like the chargers with multiple 'plugs' idea as an interim solution.

As for Tesla's chargers not being magic, completely correct. It isn't.
However, CHAdeMO is 50 kWh, Tesla is 120 kWh.

50 works well for cars with a battery around 25 kWh. It won't work as well for cars with 50,75 or 100 kWh which is why I say CHAdeMO will be obsolete.
Yes, CHAdeMO can be upgraded to as much as 90 kWh (?). Tesla was already there with their first generation chargers and has already surpassed that with the new 125 kW chargers.

If they make a 200 mile Leaf, which I would love to see as it would really help accelerate EV adoption, it would take about 75-90 minutes for a quick charge on CHAdeMO and 35-40 minutes on Tesla's.

Which do you think will appeal to people more?

 

[Luft]

... Nissan thought they could build one for "only" $10,000 but they gave up. A typical unit costs $30,000 to $40,000 installed.

That's news to me do you have a reference?

 

[smkettner]

If they make a 200 mile Leaf, which I would love to see as it would really help accelerate EV adoption, it would take about 75-90 minutes for a quick charge on CHAdeMO and 35-40 minutes on Tesla's.

Which do you think will appeal to people more?

At what cost? If LEAF was half the price and could go the distance the extra wait may not be so bad as the QC use will generally be infrequent.
If LEAF had 200 epa range most QC today would not even be needed.

Just saying a CHAdeMO network for current LEAF needs to be every 25 miles vs close to 150 miles for Tesla.
Tesla SC can be placed between cities used mostly by long distance travelers. CHAdeMO/LEAF needs to be in many cities just to get through. This lends itself to overuse by locals. This is why TESLA free system works and CHAdeMO/LEAF is a boondoggle.

I am all for the government to cut red tape to allow the QC but not install and administer some grand plan that can easily become obsolete like the inductive paddle.

 

[evguy5]

If they make a 200 mile Leaf, which I would love to see as it would really help accelerate EV adoption, it would take about 75-90 minutes for a quick charge on CHAdeMO and 35-40 minutes on Tesla's.

Which do you think will appeal to people more?

At what cost? If LEAF was half the price and could go the distance the extra wait may not be so bad as the QC use will generally be infrequent.
If LEAF had 200 epa range most QC today would not even be needed.

Just saying a CHAdeMO network for current LEAF needs to be every 25 miles vs close to 150 miles for Tesla.
Tesla SC can be placed between cities used mostly by long distance travelers. CHAdeMO/LEAF needs to be in many cities just to get through. This lends itself to overuse by locals. This is why TESLA free system works and CHAdeMO/LEAF is a boondoggle.

I am all for the government to cut red tape to allow the QC but not install and administer some grand plan that can easily become obsolete like the inductive paddle.

Said this a few times but we can't depend on Tesla to give out its technology for free or in a timely manner not to mention getting everyone to adopt it. The car companies have already chosen their connectors so we need to go with what they choose. Otherwise, we are going to get into a bigger mess then we already are. Imagine a 2011- 2014 Leafs (need to check if previous gens support it) having the chad connector and the 2015 having the Tesla charger and not supporting the Chad connector etc. Just feel like we need move forward with what is already out there.

Just put in support for the Chad connector and the SAE connector at the stations and then you support everyone aside from Tesla of course. If Tesla wanted to give away their technology for free and did it a few years back it would be great and we wouldn't be in this position.

what do you think?

 

[evguy5]

... Nissan thought they could build one for "only" $10,000 but they gave up. A typical unit costs $30,000 to $40,000 installed.

That's news to me do you have a reference?

I'd like to see some more information on this too. There are companies out there that will pay for all of the cost and simply charge for usage. Seems like a pretty easy way to get things installed without having to get business to pay for it one at a time.

 

[Zythryn]

...
Said this a few times but we can't depend on Tesla to give out its technology for free or in a timely manner not to mention getting everyone to adopt it. The car companies have already chosen their connectors so we need to go with what they choose. Otherwise, we are going to get into a bigger mess then we already are. Imagine a 2011- 2014 Leafs (need to check if previous gens support it) having the chad connector and the 2015 having the Tesla charger and not supporting the Chad connector etc. Just feel like we need move forward with what is already out there.

Just put in support for the Chad connector and the SAE connector at the stations and then you support everyone aside from Tesla of course. If Tesla wanted to give away their technology for free and did it a few years back it would be great and we wouldn't be in this position.

what do you think?

Companies pay licensing fees for tech from other companies all the time.
An adapter between Tesla and CHAdeMO would be wonderful. However, I still think the EV market would be best served by taking the best, most expandable charger and using it.
Yes, there would be a lot of chargers that would be phased out. However, the other companies could simply wait until they have to update the 50kW chargers anyways, and make the transition then.

As long as they have an adapter by that time to let the legacy EVs charge, it should work well.
Alternatively, all EVs can currently use J1772 chargers. Why install CHAdeMO at all?

For the same reason going to the Tesla superchargers is a better idea IMO. Faster charging allows EVs to work for more people (or at least be more attractive to them).

 

[brucedp]

I support this petition and have signed it. This petition is an easy way to show our Government that better planning and coordination is needed as to what type of EVSE and where EVSE is located (Fed Gov funding not just thrown around anywhere, but a plan for contiguous public EVSE so all drivers can get a charge and reach their destination).

Please see my post on this topic on the evdl.org (the mother of all EV discussions)
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Drivers-petition-for-national-L3-quick-charging-infrastructure-tp4664693p4664702.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I envision that a public EVSE station would have both L3 and L2 EVSE. This would provide charging for all plugins, from Tesla's to pih/phevs, and yes, even those conversion EVs that have upgraded to charge off J1772.

On this thread it had been mentioned that non-long-range/non-Tesla EVs should not be used for long distance traveling. But I put it to you, that there are other reasons to have this EVSE network other than that one notion.

Those that buy or lease a short range EV (i.e. iMiev r:60mi w/ CHAdeMO capability), the majority of their charging is likely going to be at home, and or at work. But the occasional jaunt may see the need to use a public EVSE station. But a driver might miscalculate, and that well established public EVSE station is the one place a tow truck driver knows to take the plugin. Or with the severe lack of Combo L3 infrastructure, Combo capable EVs can always get a charge where there are J1772.

I am also thinking that these public L3 & 2 EVSE stations would invite Tesla to install their EVSE as well. Tesla would decide if it would install a supercharger and or standard Tesla EVSE, and if the location worked for their purposes.

The petition gives the opportunity for citizens to show their desire for a well laid-out network of public EVSE.

So, please sign the petition and give your support
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-fast-charging-network-wide-scale-adoption-electric-vehicles/zf0nNH7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Thanks for reading,

Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
brucedp.150m.com
(Near Silicon Valley, south of SF, CA USA)