MY ZEV license plate at LAX, Why did you unplug my Leaf?

[JPC2822]

Hello All.
It is clear that the EV chargers at LAX need to be able to be RESERVED at mychargepoint.net THIS IS A POSSIBILITY IF WE ALL E-MAIL charge point asking them to. I did but there is power in numbers. It is great to see ALL the LEAF owners who are parking for FREE and fighting over charging stations at LAX (particularly LOT 1)! Please e-mail Charge Point asking them to make the on-line "Reserve Option" available at LAX airport! You can e-mail them at: [email protected]

Thanks!

 

[JimSouCal]

It is clear that the EV chargers at LAX need to be able to be RESERVED at mychargepoint.net

I've considered your point, agree there is an issue, and disagree as to your proposed a solution. Thinking out loud...

I am not so sure reservations would work without a fee structure and on site management. Thinking it through, say someone no shows? So what would happen, if you get stuck in traffic? Or change flights? How many no shows, or late arrivals, until your reservation privilege is revoked? What if you have a reservation and the unit is occupied, and you can't make it?

I'd think that once there is enough demand, there will be a demand for EV valet, and some fees, maybe costly or not, to go along with it. While first come first served is both inefficient and problematic, borderline anarchy, I don't see unsupervised reservations working that great either...

 

[walterbays]

I am not so sure reservations would work without a fee structure and on site management.

I agree reservations wouldn't work without a fee. But the on site management could be performed by computer, not nearly as well as competent humans but better than incompetent humans.

E.g., you reserve a charger for 1pm to 4pm, so you pay for 1pm to 4pm. Don't arrive until 3pm? Fine, but you still pay from 1pm. Want it longer now, until 5pm? Only if nobody else reserved that time slot first.

Or you could use reservation fees in a way to manage "free" charging. Say you reserve a charger for 1pm to 4pm. Arrive at 1pm, plug in, and charge for free. But if you don't show up on time, it's $5/hr or $10/hr until you do show up, so reserve only what you really need. It would have to give a little leeway for the previous car to move away and you to get plugged in. E.g., if the last guy with the reservation ending at 1pm doesn't leave until 1:13pm, maybe you'd have until 1:23pm to start. Oh, and he would be paying $10/hr for those 13 minutes he overstayed his reservation.

 

[adaminla]

That's true. Mr/Ms MY ZEV ought to count him/herself lucky that car didn't get vandalized.

This is kind of harsh don't you think? They person obviously drove to LAX, flew somewhere and wanted to plug in their car. There are obviously a number of other ways to handle the situation with the charger but they chose to plug their car in at a FREE, PUBLIC and well known charging station. Is vandalizing other people's cars the way to go here?

really?

 

[JPWhite]

That's true. Mr/Ms MY ZEV ought to count him/herself lucky that car didn't get vandalized.

This is kind of harsh don't you think? They person obviously drove to LAX, flew somewhere and wanted to plug in their car. There are obviously a number of other ways to handle the situation with the charger but they chose to plug their car in at a FREE, PUBLIC and well known charging station. Is vandalizing other people's cars the way to go here?

really?

I was referring to the fact that they unplugged someone else's vehicle and then left for an extended period inconveniencing the other driver. Unplugging someones car clearly got a reaction, thankfully a mature reaction, but it needn't have ended that way. A less reasonable person could have removed the valve stems or worse.

 

[Herm]

lots of issues, from free parking to BEVs that dont need to recharge while parked for two months.

Your proposal would essentially force BEV/PHEV owners to sit in their car for 10-30 minutes for no good reason. I thought we were supposed to be encouraging adoption of these technologies?

A few good reasons:

1. the moment the charge was done the driver leaves, freeing up an expensive and rare L3 charger for the next person that needs it.. its only 30 minutes, listen to the radio or read a book.. or you may actually leave after 10 minutes once you have enough charge to get home.

2. Security, both the driver and the attendant are keeping an eye on things, no padlocks, your car wont get towed etc

3. reduces needless waste of resorces by electricity hoarders

4. increases L3 infrastructure at minimum expense, two chargers would cover 100% of any forseable need.. encourages adoption of fast charging options. Its at the entrance to the plot so you would not have to pay for parking.. its attended 100% of the time.

5. guarantees that you will get a charge if you really must have one.. no BEV hogging a charger just to park or some moron ICEing the charger.

 

[Smidge204]

Herm, I think you're overestimating the overall importance of L3 charging. This is, after all, an airport parking lot we're talking about.

You just got off a 6-8 hour flight from a week long family vacation. You took an early flight but it's still late afternoon on a Los Angeles summer day. You've got your wife and two kids with you. You decide to top off the car's battery before driving home. You're forced to sit in the car a half an hour in the blazing sun. Does that make you happy? Is it worth it?

OR

You arrive at the airport to catch a flight for a family vacation. Pulling into the first parking spot you come across you notice a cluster of 120V/208V outlets - one set for your spot and three more sets for each of the other four sharing a corner with yours. You plug in your L1 or L2 EVSE, padlock it to your car (because you're a responsible EV driver and always carry your EVSE and a padlock) and head to the terminal to check in. A week later you pack your bags into the car, unplug and drive off without giving it a second thought because the car took care of maintaining the battery for you.

You can still have your attendant toodle around the parking lot in a golf cart to deter vandals and theives but I really have to wonder how vital that is in a limited-access parking lot like those at airports. They're generally isolated from pedestrian traffic so you tend not to get the random ennui-laden jerkoffs breaking your stuff for lack of anything better to do. (Train station parking lots would be another story IMHO)
=Smidge=

 

[Herm]

You just got off a 6-8 hour flight from a week long family vacation. You took an early flight but it's still late afternoon on a Los Angeles summer day. You've got your wife and two kids with you. You decide to top off the car's battery before driving home. You're forced to sit in the car a half an hour in the blazing sun.

You can run the AC while it charges, and shade can be provided.. its only a few parking spaces. You could also charge your car before you leave on your trip. But I can see the wife and kids whining while you hoard those electrons

Another advantage is that the two chargers would be in a highly visible location, with perhaps a Leaf or iMiev actually being seen using them.. that is great publicity for electrics.

 

[SanDust]

My proposal (mostly for airports parking lots) is no free parking but available L3 charging.

Lower level charging may be a good or even great idea at work, but public charging creates more problems than it solves. People should be able to manage range without public charging. If they can't then they probably need a different vehicle. Tying the charger to the parking place only makes things worse since you're now conflating two different services. Your proposal removes the link, which is good. Charging for the power makes it even better since people who need a charge won't be forced to wait for someone who doesn't need a charge but who can't pass up a "freebie".

In addition to the problems created by public charging in parking spaces, I'd add: "Time wasted squabbling about the charger". This thread is a good example of just how much time can be wasted.

 

[mwalsh]

This thread is a good example of just how much time can be wasted.

Responding to this thread is only cutting into the amount of time I could spend with porn. No real loss there.

 

[davewill]

Lower level charging may be a good or even great idea at work, but public charging creates more problems than it solves.

Not really, it only seems a problem now, because we don't really have enough of it deployed. Once we get to the point where most spaces at appropriate venues are equipped, we just park and plug in.

 

[DaveEV]

Responding to this thread is only cutting into the amount of time I could spend with porn. No real loss there.

LOL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SanDust]

Responding to this thread is only cutting into the amount of time I could spend with porn. No real loss there.

Really? One of these has to be more fun. :twisted:

 

[JimSouCal]

Lower level charging may be a good or even great idea at work, but public charging creates more problems than it solves. People should be able to manage range without public charging. If they can't then they probably need a different vehicle. Tying the charger to the parking place only makes things worse since you're now conflating two different services. Your proposal removes the link, which is good. Charging for the power makes it even better since people who need a charge won't be forced to wait for someone who doesn't need a charge but who can't pass up a "freebie".

In addition to the problems created by public charging in parking spaces, I'd add: "Time wasted squabbling about the charger"...

I may see things very very differently than you do. The thing about opportunity charging is it does maintain range options. Say you head down to the beach from Pasadena, and don't charge, and you still hold enough range to get back, but then your friend calls in Palos Verdes, and invites you to dinner. If you'd been playing at the beach, and your car was charging, then that would be easy invitation to accept. No pick up charge while at your destination and you are out.

Clearly you have a different EV philosophy than I have arrived at, which is when the car is sitting around, if it is below 50%, it should be in some kind of charge mode. As others have pointed out, there is electricity distribution all around us. Why not encourage easy access to it.... I do agree that some kind of reasonable usage fee is in order, but my bet is that will be here soon enough.

To see it another way, as ICE were getting going, it was often about mapping the route to petrol supply. There are similarities today.

 

[TEG]

All this talk of "they took my J-plug without asking" has me thinking that inductive charging built into the parking space might have some appeal for popular/busy spots like at LAX...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoZPu0q0qN4[/youtube]

(As much as I dislike the efficiency loss, the convenience factor is worth a lot.)

 

[KeiJidosha]

My proposal (mostly for airports parking lots) is no free parking but available L3 charging.

Lower level charging may be a good or even great idea at work, but public charging creates more problems than it solves. People should be able to manage range without public charging. If they can't then they probably need a different vehicle.

Insufficient, poorly planned, poorly marked, poorly managed public charging WILL causes more problems than it solves. But, EV utility suffers without public charging. What's needed is a FINANCIALLY sustainable business model to encourage sufficient public charging. And that means pay-to-charge. Price will control demand from those that can manage without.

 

[Smidge204]

All this talk of "they took my J-plug without asking" has me thinking that inductive charging built into the parking space might have some appeal for popular/busy spots like at LAX...
(As much as I dislike the efficiency loss, the convenience factor is worth a lot.)

Inductive charging WOULD have a lot of benefits, providing you can design adequate tolerances for clearance and alignment, and have proper safety features (make sure you're not trying to inductively charge some ICE's gas tank, for example) and the charging pads for the vehicles can be retrofitted easily enough. More difficult and expensive that just providing outlets, but perfectly doable.
=Smidge=

 

[rpmdk]

My proposal (mostly for airports parking lots) is no free parking but available L3 charging.

Lower level charging may be a good or even great idea at work, but public charging creates more problems than it solves. People should be able to manage range without public charging. If they can't then they probably need a different vehicle.

Insufficient, poorly planned, poorly marked, poorly managed public charging WILL causes more problems than it solves. But, EV utility suffers without public charging. What's needed is a FINANCIALLY sustainable business model to encourage sufficient public charging. And that means pay-to-charge. Price will control demand from those that can manage without.

Sure, but without a heavy dose of government incentive, this will never get off the ground.

 

[mwalsh]

All this talk of "they took my J-plug without asking" has me thinking that inductive charging built into the parking space might have some appeal for popular/busy spots like at LAX...

MY ZEV would have probably pushed anything already over a charging pad out of the way with his LEAF, so he could charge there!

 

[JimSouCal]

pushed anything already over a charging pad..!

New option for aftermarket: push bars