May Deliveries! Or... May(be)?

[daniel]

... a LOT of people will just not bother with this dealer when they need a part, service, etc.

More likely people will continue to go to the closest dealer, or the dealer they've dealt with before, or the dealer their friends and family have recommended. Nobody who does not read this thread will even know about this incident, and how many of them would be potential customers? Maybe one or two. maybe none. The Leaf is a microscopic part of Nissan's business and Nissan has made it abundantly clear that they could not care less about the people who have ordered Leafs. Just look at how we've been treated for the past year. We've gotten nothing but lies and promises. They outsourced the ordering process to incompetents, and they outsourced the installation of EVSEs to criminals. They're not going to care if a dealer refuses a charge to someone who chose to travel farther than the car's range in order to buy from a different dealer.

 

[smkettner]

Got the final email last week. DB updated from 4/19 to 5/19 at the same time. Then I get the CS call that my car that has been in LB for almost two months will be released for transit on May 16.

So now I am all ready to get my Leaf this next week. Today my DB date changes to 5/23
Am I still on track for this week? Or am I getting delayed another week?
It is just a short truck ride.

Or is this just more random numbers? :roll:

 

[dlich18]

You can't really blame them: You bought your car at a dealer farther away, then wanted to use them to hopscotch home.

I can blame them quite easily! That is a stingy and short-sighted policy to refuse charging to any Leaf driver who needs some juice to get home, especially in this early period of EV adoption. Until the public infrastructure is more fully developed, it will discourage "fence-sitters" who suffer from range-anxiety to hear stories like this, justifying their hesitance in taking the leap to an EV. I wish Nissan had made it MANDATORY that any Leaf-certified dealer offer free and accessible charging to any owner. :evil:

TT

"Short-Sighted" policies work two ways. Is not it short-sighted for a consumer to shop for the lowest price instead of supporting his local dealer? I am guilty of the same thing when I shop on Amazon.com for something I could purchase from a local vendor. However, when I purchase from someone like Amazon, I know it is no-frills, and I can't expect any service.

I purchased from Santa Monica Nissan, my local dealer, knowing full well I could get a better price from someone further away. When I purchase a car, especially new technology like the Leaf, I know I may need a relationship and someone to call on if I have a problem. Someone who wants to keep my business. I trust (and hope) that by supporting my local dealer, it will show me the kind of support in the future to which some writers in this forum appear to believe they are simply "entitled", even from those they have chosen not to patronize in order to save a few bucks.

By always searching for the absolute lowest price, we encourage vendors to cut everything to the absolute bone in order to compete. If they don't, then they go out of business. But that's a choice we make as consumers. We can't complain when we get exactly what we ask for!

 

[Stoaty]

So now I am all ready to get my Leaf this next week. Today my DB date changes to 5/23 Am I still on track for this week? Or am I getting delayed another week? It is just a short truck ride.

I don't know, but I would guess there will be room on that truck for a blue SV, VIN 1999 :roll:

 

[LEAFfan]

I trust (and hope) that by supporting my local dealer, it will show me the kind of support in the future to which some writers in this forum appear to believe they are simply "entitled", even from those they have chosen not to patronize in order to save a few bucks.

I fail to see how this is any different than buying an ICE car from a dealer a little farther away to get a better deal/price and then use the closer dealer for warranty service, parts, etc. Many times I've bought a car from a distant dealer, and have had no problem whatsoever using a closer dealer. And if you think saving $60/mo. on a lease is "a few bucks", then you need to either reevaluate your definition of "a few bucks" or understand that we aren't all millionaires like you. You're not the first one to erroneously use this term.

 

[Lanzer]

The subject of whether or not the dealers should provide their chargers is contreversial by nature, and I'm merely witnessing the various nature of how different dealers are handled. The fact of the matter is that Nissan encouraged us Nissan customers to obtain charge at any dealerships and this message is re-enforced with the carwings interface inside each Leaf that's been sold.

At this point, an average customer who is not on the forum would have quite a hard time planning a trip with the help of carwings.  

I think that everyone in the forum ultimately wish for the wide adaptation of EV's, and one of the ways that the average consumer will feel at ease for purchasing a Leaf would be to know that the charge points are plentiful.  One of the first businesses to embrace this concept could be all the Nissan dealerships across the nation.  If all the dealers are on board with this concept, that would be most wonderful.  Until then, it's great to know that companies like Chargepoint and others are actively installing chargers to help realize the EV infrastructure.

 

[smkettner]

I agree the dealers should be the first on board with this.
What will it change the electric bill from $12,000 per month to $12,100 :roll: big whoop.
Noone will have a big impact from this.

 

[dlich18]

I fail to see how this is any different than buying an ICE car from a dealer a little farther away to get a better deal/price and then use the closer dealer for warranty service, parts, etc. Many times I've bought a car from a distant dealer, and have had no problem whatsoever using a closer dealer. And if you think saving $60/mo. on a lease is "a few bucks", then you need to either reevaluate your definition of "a few bucks" or understand that we aren't all millionaires like you. You're not the first one to erroneously use this term.

In my opinion, there is a big difference. When you are using the dealer for warranty service or parts, the dealer is getting paid and making money. Its parts and service departments are profit centers. This debate is about the dealer offering a free service. What makes one entitled to a free service from a vendor that the consumer has chosen not to patronize?

 

[gascant]

Got the final email last week. DB updated from 4/19 to 5/19 at the same time. Then I get the CS call that my car that has been in LB for almost two months will be released for transit on May 16.

So now I am all ready to get my Leaf this next week. Today my DB date changes to 5/23
Am I still on track for this week? Or am I getting delayed another week?
It is just a short truck ride.

Or is this just more random numbers? :roll:

I had a similar experience last week. About 30 minutes after I got "the call" from my PD on May 12, I got an email from Nissan CS saying that my date had changed and I should check my DB for the latest info. Lo and behold, they changed my estimate from May 12th to the 16th (tomorrow). It's speculation, but I they might be doing this in order to claim that they deliver ahead of their final projected date. It's purely statistics for them IMHO. I'll have 250+ miles on my new LEAf by the time the 16th rolls around.

 

[daniel]

I fail to see how this is any different than buying an ICE car from a dealer a little farther away to get a better deal/price and then use the closer dealer for warranty service, parts, etc. Many times I've bought a car from a distant dealer, and have had no problem whatsoever using a closer dealer. And if you think saving $60/mo. on a lease is "a few bucks", then you need to either reevaluate your definition of "a few bucks" or understand that we aren't all millionaires like you. You're not the first one to erroneously use this term.

In my opinion, there is a big difference. When you are using the dealer for warranty service or parts, the dealer is getting paid and making money. Its parts and service departments are profit centers. This debate is about the dealer offering a free service. What makes one entitled to a free service from a vendor that the consumer has chosen not to patronize?

EXACTLY! A dealer makes money performing warranty service. Freebies go to their own customers. You'll get free charging from idealists who are dedicated to the idea of making it easier for people to switch away from gasoline. Car dealerships are not Greenpeace. They are in business to make money selling and servicing cars. The Leaf is a microscopic part of their business, and because EVs need less service, they have a reduced incentive to push them. Some will be as fascinated by the idea as we are, and may offer free charging to anyone. But for people like the OP to think they have a right to a free charge from a dealer they've chosen not to patronize is the same as asking a restaurant for free bread and gravy.

There may be businesses that will offer pay-as-you-go charging stations. But that's an entirely different business model than a car dealership that has chargers for its own use and the use of its own customers.

 

[downeykp]

I fail to see how this is any different than buying an ICE car from a dealer a little farther away to get a better deal/price and then use the closer dealer for warranty service, parts, etc. Many times I've bought a car from a distant dealer, and have had no problem whatsoever using a closer dealer. And if you think saving $60/mo. on a lease is "a few bucks", then you need to either reevaluate your definition of "a few bucks" or understand that we aren't all millionaires like you. You're not the first one to erroneously use this term.

In my opinion, there is a big difference. When you are using the dealer for warranty service or parts, the dealer is getting paid and making money. Its parts and service departments are profit centers. This debate is about the dealer offering a free service. What makes one entitled to a free service from a vendor that the consumer has chosen not to patronize?

If the dealer has a problem letting a non-customer charge at their dealership, then charge a fee. That way if there is space available it is a win-win for both.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Right, so dealers can do whatever they want with their chargers, and restrict them to use by whoever wears their license plate frames.

Now, why is Carwings showing me these chargers on a map? What does it mean?
"There's a charger over there. You can't use it. It's for someone else."

It would be like showing Hotel icons everywhere there's a comfortable Tempurpedic mattress.. at someone's house.

It makes no sense at all. They should drop the dealerships from the POI database unless the chargers are available for everyone to use -- free or fee, I don't care. But don't plot them on my range map if I can't use them.

 

[derkraut]

Right, so dealers can do whatever they want with their chargers, and restrict them to use by whoever wears their license plate frames.

Now, why is Carwings showing me these chargers on a map? What does it mean?
"There's a charger over there. You can't use it. It's for someone else."

It would be like showing Hotel icons everywhere there's a comfortable Tempurpedic mattress.. at someone's house.

It makes no sense at all. They should drop the dealerships from the POI database unless the chargers are available for everyone to use -- free or fee, I don't care. But don't plot them on my range map if I can't use them.

I agree 100%

 

[smkettner]

x3 GroundLoop. Make the dealer sign an agreement for public use if they want their address on the map.

 

[ttweed]

EXACTLY! A dealer makes money performing warranty service.

And this is exactly why it is stupid and short-sighted for a dealer to alienate an owner who despite buying the car somewhere else might still choose to have it serviced and buy parts/accessories from them for the life of the car. It is foolish to deny a few cents of electricity to someone who might spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the next few years in parts and service (as well as possibly winning them over for their next vehicle purchase) if they were received pleasantly and accommodated graciously. The margin on the sale of the car is nothing compared to capturing the lifetime loyalty of a customer. Instead of demonstrating a good customer service ethic they left this owner with a bad taste in their mouth which will not encourage them to ever return for any reason. The first rule of customer service is "the customer is always right" (even when they're wrong.) This includes potential as well as past customers, if you want to grow your customer base.

I am not buying the argument that they will "go broke" from giving away a little electricity. How much coffee do they give away in their waiting room? If cost is an issue, why not just charge for it instead of saying "we don't want people coming in here all the time and charging." Did Lanzer say he wanted to make a habit of it? Did he say he wanted it for free? I didn't read that in the original post, so I'm not buying the "bread and gravy con job" analogy either. He wasn't trying to put anything over on them. He was a range-limited EV driver trying to make it home on a one-time basis. If a Leaf dealer isn't willing to support an owner in such a situation until there is sufficient infrastructure to make it unnecessary, they shouldn't be selling the cars.

BTW, I bought my car from my local dealer despite the fact that I could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere. They have chosen the same short-sighted policy for their charging stations, namely "if you didn't buy it here, you aren't welcome to charge here," and I will be taking my car elsewhere for service, even though it might not be as convenient.

TT

 

[smkettner]

Besides I thought dealers end up making more money on service than selling new cars. :R

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Besides I thought dealers end up making more money on service than selling new cars. :R

Unless it's warranty work, I can't imagine why I'd take my Leaf to a dealer more often than once a year (battery check).

I can rotate my own wheels and check the fluids.

 

[LEAFfan]

EXACTLY! A dealer makes money performing warranty service.

And this is exactly why it is stupid and short-sighted for a dealer to alienate an owner who despite buying the car somewhere else might still choose to have it serviced and buy parts/accessories from them for the life of the car. It is foolish to deny a few cents of electricity to someone who might spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the next few years in parts and service (as well as possibly winning them over for their next vehicle purchase) if they were received pleasantly and accommodated graciously. The margin on the sale of the car is nothing compared to capturing the lifetime loyalty of a customer. Instead of demonstrating a good customer service ethic they left this owner with a bad taste in their mouth which will not encourage them to ever return for any reason. The first rule of customer service is "the customer is always right" (even when they're wrong.) This includes potential as well as past customers, if you want to grow your customer base.

I am not buying the argument that they will "go broke" from giving away a little electricity. How much coffee do they give away in their waiting room? If cost is an issue, why not just charge for it instead of saying "we don't want people coming in here all the time and charging." Did Lanzer say he wanted to make a habit of it? Did he say he wanted it for free? I didn't read that in the original post, so I'm not buying the "bread and gravy con job" analogy either. He wasn't trying to put anything over on them. He was a range-limited EV driver trying to make it home on a one-time basis. If a Leaf dealer isn't willing to support an owner in such a situation until there is sufficient infrastructure to make it unnecessary, they shouldn't be selling the cars.

BTW, I bought my car from my local dealer despite the fact that I could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere. They have chosen the same short-sighted policy for their charging stations, namely "if you didn't buy it here, you aren't welcome to charge here," and I will be taking my car elsewhere for service, even though it might not be as convenient.

TT

+1!

 

[walterbays]

They should drop the dealerships from the POI database unless the chargers are available for everyone to use -- free or fee, I don't care. But don't plot them on my range map if I can't use them.

I can forgive Nissan their original oversight failing to require dealers to provide public charging. They probably expected, as I did, that by the time a significant number of LEAFs were on the road the EV Project would have delivered on its promises to build a public charging infrastructure.

But they have not done so, and essentially the only public infrastructure today is the Nissan dealers. Without a public infrastructure the LEAF fails and Nissan's $5 billion investment is lost. (If you really wanted a car that you could confidently drive no farther than 40 miles from home wouldn't you have instead bought an NEV for $8,000?) If LEAF fails, EVs fail - again, with all that means for energy independence, the economy, national security, and the environment. So although it is unfair for some dealers to be providing lots of charging for cars bought elsewhere, it is rather important that Nissan dealers continue to provide some public charging infrastructure.

So here's what I think Nissan should do:

Lean heavily but quietly on DOE and the EV Project to get moving, and if that doesn't succeed, do it loudly.

Increase the price of LEAF by some amount calculated adequate to fund a pro rata portion of Nissan dealer charging, capital and electricity costs. For cars already sold, put that amount of money into the pot from the corporate account.

Pay this money to dealers for each charging session from a LEAF driver who bought his car from another dealer.

Get all dealers together (in person, web, phone, or email) to agree on a uniform set of charging rules, possibly something along the lines of Stevens Creek Nissan, with 24/7 access strongly preferred.

All dealers who agree to the uniform rules get listed in the directory, get payments for "foreign" charging, and get favorable treatment in their LEAF allocations.

All dealers who do not agree do not get listed in the directory, do not get any payments, and have their LEAF allocations reduced slowly, month by month, until finally their LEAF certification is revoked.

PS - I updated the list of dealers who allow charging: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3749

 

[dlich18]

It is foolish to deny a few cents of electricity to someone who might spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the next few years in parts and service (as well as possibly winning them over for their next vehicle purchase) if they were received pleasantly and accommodated graciously. TT

I think this mixes up two issues. 1) Whether or not it is good business for a dealer to deny a free customer service to prospective patrons, and 2) whether or not a consumer is entitled to that free service just because he/she owns a Leaf.

Sometimes, continuously searching for the lowest price merely encourages sellers to "race to the bottom" in order to remain competitive. Look what's happened to the airlines. I'm guilty of on-line price shopping too. I once bought a car from through an on-line broker. But I didn't think I was entitled to test drive the car at my local dealer when I had no intention to purchase from it. It's something to think about.