Marketing Suggestions for Nissan: Let's Get Serious

[Herm]

Sounds crazy but bring the price down to $25,000. $7000 cash back rebate/dealer incentive. So now you have the car stickering at $25,000 and if a person qualifies for the full tax credit, the following yesr they have the car for less than $20,000.

Thats extreme, a loaded up Verano or Cruze sell in the $27k level, bring the Volt down to $35k and it is on a level playing field with those two. Anyone that can afford a car like that will get the tax credit, otherwise lease it.. if you dont like leasing just buy the car at the end of the lease term. There is no excuse. The Leaf will have to go a bit lower, perhaps $33k.

 

[GRA]

The problem is - Nissan isn't even selling to the environmental "crowd". That crowd is quite large (2 million Sierra club members, for eg.).

Ofcourse, it is possible the "environmental" crowd isn't all that committed when it comes to personal mobility.

But that's who's buying them. Perhaps the rest of the Sierra Club members just don't have the extra cash or income to buy an EV. Maybe their cars are paid off.

That said, if the environmental crowd was so committed to the environment, they wouldn't be buying cars in the first place.

Then again, "environmentalist" has lost a great deal of meaning these days, eh? I mean really, some here have at least two cars, some more than that and pull up to their tract homes of 2500-3000 square feet. Turn on their 55" plasma screen and get comfy on their couch choosing from 500 channels. Or maybe they take a dip in their 5000 gallon pool. I thought there was a water shortage?

Committed to he environment...LOL

As a (former) member of the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations who is still a green, albeit a pragmatic one, I feel entitled to provide a couple of in-house enviro jokes:

Definition of an environmentalist - someone who already owns a beach house.

Q: How do you find where the environmental group is meeting?

A: Look for the building closest to the parking lot with the largest collection of SUVs.
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Back on topic, it's clear that even in areas like Europe with much more favorable conditions for BEVs (higher fuel prices and pop. density, shorter daily travel/capita, a supposedly more green public etc.) than pertain in the U.S., BEVs aren't selling very well. Marketing can improve sales at the margins, but if people just don't want the product it doesn't matter how much you put into marketing. I do think the Toyota ad was good, but the first Leaf ad I saw (the every appliance gas-operated one) made much the same points. Both are cute and are supposed to get you thinking, but I doubt either will appeal to many outside of their niche.

Until battery/fuel cost ratios along with range and recharge times improve, I don't believe we'll see BEVs making more than slow progress in the private market, barring some unmistakeable, undeniable, disruptive economic or climactic event.

Re the environmental crowd, I believe many of the more serious greens have taken a different approach to lowering their impact, and find (as I do) that current BEVs don't suit their car needs. By that I mean that they've chosen to move closer in to their jobs, living in walkable/bikable high-density, mixed use, transit-oriented development on a human scale, i.e. New Urbanism. As such, many have little or no need for a car for weekday use, and those that do need one occasionally are more likely to use car-sharing where that's available. This seems to be a general trend among Gen. Y as well, to which I can only say hooray!

Fleet use of BEVs is another matter. Even with current lower fuel prices, urban delivery use of BEVs makes economic and practical sense for USPS/UPS/FedEx/DHL and the like; taxis using battery exchange may also pencil out.

For the private market, I've always believed that PHEVs would be how we eased the mainstream consumer into EVs while we wait for the necessary battery improvements, and I see nothing yet to change my opinion.

 

[Nubo]

...What I see right now is that all of the gasoline drivers out there are "Windows Users" and the real question is this.. Are we the BEV drivers considered the "Linux users" or "Apple Users?"

I strongly identify the LEAF as being the automotive equivalent of an Apple product (at least compared to what's out there). What I'd really like to see is Apple making an EV. I was daydreaming about that back when everyone was wondering what Apple were going to do with their $100 billion in cash.....

Think different.

 

[cwerdna]

Because they sell a hundred times more Altimas than Leafs...

Well, from http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nissan-north-america-sales-increase-282-in-june-161228165.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, it's more like 40x.

 

[Train]

There's no way the Leaf could sell for $25K unless Nissan started subsidizing the costs (even more). If someone needs a $25K EV they should investigate the i-MiEV.

Certainly they would lose a substantial amount but I don't see what else they're going to do once that TN plant begins to make Leafs and they continue to sell a few hundred every month. Obviously they'll slow down substantially to match production to demand but it won't be anywhere near capacity.

I see a rebate/incentive coming soon, perhaps not as much as I mentioned earlier but they'll need to do something.

 

[klapauzius]

As far as a billion cars killing the earth, that sounds like religious evangelist doomsday silliness. A meteor made a crater a 100 miles wide pretty much snuffed out pretty much everything 70 million years ago. That didn't kill the earth. It's arrogant and silly to think that man could possibly "kill" this planet. It's the same gullibility and thought process as those crazy fundamentalists. Climate change has been going on long before SUV's were here. It's a conversation for another thread but the constant references to it make one laugh.

Its a bit off-topic, but I thought people were sophisticated enough to not take "killing the earth" literally...making it less habitable or even lethal for humans is probably what is implied in debates like this.

And of course, you are right, we can trace the CO2 increases in the atmosphere way back before automobiles. But SUVs add to it and substantially more than e.g. a Prius or a Leaf.

 

[TomT]

Oh, well; that makes it MUCH better! :lol:
My guess is that when the new Altima comes out, and if Leaf sales continue in the doldrums, it WILL be close to 100X...

Because they sell a hundred times more Altimas than Leafs...

Well, from http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nissan-north-america-sales-increase-282-in-june-161228165.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, it's more like 40x.

 

[sp4rk]

...What I see right now is that all of the gasoline drivers out there are "Windows Users" and the real question is this.. Are we the BEV drivers considered the "Linux users" or "Apple Users?"

I strongly identify the LEAF as being the automotive equivalent of an Apple product (at least compared to what's out there). What I'd really like to see is Apple making an EV. I was daydreaming about that back when everyone was wondering what Apple were going to do with their $100 billion in cash.....

Think different.

You're comparing Apple to Leaf?

Sorry, I am not an Apple fan at all ... cultish ... whatever ... but they do make (overpriced) beautiful products.

(Tesla has recently been compared to Apple ...)

Leaf is NOT attractive in any shape or form IMHO ... my girlfriend wants to buy electric ... and she'd never be caught dead in my Leaf as the driver or owner. A Tesla, yes.

Leaf's marketing color is hideous. The "sea blue" crap is simply not a mainstream color! Whomever chose it did it to try help ruin sales.

EV is an easy sale but not when presented with the Leaf's body styling.

I bought it, maybe my first car ever, not on body styling but to get me off the pump.

And, yes, I am a Tesla res holder.

Nissan dealers do not want to sell the Leaf. HUGE problem!!! Too much explaining to do. Too few cars. Skittish buyers.

Gas being down $1 doesn't help. But when it is down people overlook the same facts are there ...

Those presented in documentaries like Crude Awakening.

 

[TomT]

Agreed. Apple products are expensive but at least they are usually elegant and stylish. I don't think much of an argument could be made that the Leaf is either...

You're comparing Apple to Leaf? Sorry, I am not an Apple fan at all ... cultish ... whatever ... but they do make (overpriced) beautiful products.

 

[smkettner]

Nissan has one running now where the guy is giving back all the gas station freebies and saying goodbye to his friendly attendant because he's bought an Altima! WTH! How do you waste, yes waste, that commercial on a gas burner when the Leaf sales are so low?

Because they sell a hundred times more Altimas than Leafs...

But they could have gone many other ways. Obviously the Altima's are bringing in more money than Leaf's but would it be so wrong to at least include one in the commercial?

I was just reminded that Nissan is also giving a 4th of July rebate of 1K (IIRC). They show the Leaf's charging door but the Leaf get's no cash rebate.

I think it would be fun if Nissan snuck in a LEAF in the background as a sort of product placement in the Altima ad

 

[jackal]

I absolutely love everything about the leaf .. just not the shape. I think their best marketing move would be to consider changing the shape to something a little more sexy like what Tesla did.

 

[DANandNAN]

I think it would be fun if Nissan snuck in a LEAF in the background as a sort of product placement in the Altima ad

Why not? It's an ad about using less gas - featuring a car that still uses gas. If you're not going to use the idea exclusively for the Leaf then at least show them parking in the garage next to one.

 

[sp4rk]

I absolutely love everything about the leaf .. just not the shape. I think their best marketing move would be to consider changing the shape to something a little more sexy like what Tesla did.

Don't get me wrong ... I do too ... talk it up everywhere ... I would not give it up for anything ... erm, except a Tesla.

But I consider it to be one of the ugliest cars ON the planet, but the best car FOR the planet. Today.

 

[DANandNAN]

I absolutely love everything about the leaf .. just not the shape. I think their best marketing move would be to consider changing the shape to something a little more sexy like what Tesla did.

Don't get me wrong ... I do too ... talk it up everywhere ... I would not give it up for anything ... erm, except a Tesla.

But I consider it to be one of the ugliest cars ON the planet, but the best car FOR the planet. Today.

ROFL, can you imagine if Musk rolled out a $40K S with 75-100 miles of range? Damn, now I'm drooling

 

[edatoakrun]

I absolutely love everything about the leaf .. just not the shape. I think their best marketing move would be to consider changing the shape to something a little more sexy like what Tesla did.

Don't get me wrong ... I do too ... talk it up everywhere ... I would not give it up for anything ... erm, except a Tesla.

But I consider it to be one of the ugliest cars ON the planet, but the best car FOR the planet. Today.

ROFL, can you imagine if Musk rolled out a $40K S with 75-100 miles of range? Damn, now I'm drooling

I'd definitely choose one of those over the planned heavier (worse handling) 120-160 mile, ~$57K, "base" S.

And I'd probably choose either, over a ~$35k LEAF, but only if either S could fast-charge.

Of course, since neither the nearly-real or hypothetical S's are likely to ever have fast-charge capability, they both look rather unattractive, to me.

 

[sp4rk]

I'd definitely choose one of those over the planned heavier (worse handling) 120-160 mile, ~$57K, "base" S.

And I'd probably choose either, over a ~$35k LEAF, but only if either S could fast-charge.

Of course, since neither the nearly-real or hypothetical S's are likely to ever have fast-charge capability, they both look rather unattractive, to me.

Worse handling? Have you driven it?

Planned? They are making deliveries.

Fast charge ... go back to their web site and read about fast charging.

Hypothetical? Nearly-real? Huh?

 

[edatoakrun]

="edatoakrun"
I'd definitely choose one of those over the planned heavier (worse handling) 120-160 mile, ~$57K, "base" S.

And I'd probably choose either, over a ~$35k LEAF, but only if either S could fast-charge.

Of course, since neither the nearly-real or hypothetical S's are likely to ever have fast-charge capability, they both look rather unattractive, to me.

="sp4rk" Worse handling? Have you driven it?

No one has driven the production $57K, 40 kWh S, much less the entirely hypothetical shorter-range cheaper one.

Assuming several hundred Lbs lower weight for the hypothetical smaller kWh capacity S, It would be hard not to make it handle better.

="sp4rk" Planned? They are making deliveries.

No, not of 40 kWh base models, or, I believe, of any S's below $100k, presently.

="sp4rk" Fast charge ... go back to their web site and read about fast charging.

No Fast-charge capability yet. No Tesla Superchargers operational, and adapters for Chademo not yet available. Both are planned for the future, but only for much pricier 60 and 85 kWh S's.

="sp4rk" Hypothetical? Nearly-real? Huh?

$40k S-hypothetical.

$57K S- will be "real" for buyers, In about 10-12 months, when deliveries may begin, IIRC?

 

[PaulScott]

As a LEAF specialist for Nissan of Downtown LA, I can speak to this problem first hand. When I started selling this car for a Santa Monica dealer, they were flying out of the store. Of course, those were being delivered to all of us early adopters. That crowd was much smaller than I imagined it would be but, whatever, we now have the problem of slow sales.

I get a lot of questions about why sales are slow, and in my experience, range and price are the two big ones. EVSE infrastructure is slowly making a dent in the former, but lower gas prices are hurting the latter.

I would also throw in the massive negative EV hating campaign from the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. The Fox crowd was cowed somewhat by Bob Lutz and his GM buddies taking them out to the woodshed a couple months ago telling to back the f*ck off or they'd pull their advertising. Overnight, Fox pretty much stopped their EV hating blathering. Rush keeps his up, however. I lost at least two sales in January specifically because of the "fire problems" with the Volt. The two customers were not swayed by my detailed explanation of what really happened.

The negative press is responsible for a lot of the slow sales, but certainly not all.

As a dealer, we're working on our own ad campaign that should surface in 2-3 weeks. I have lots of inventory and I want to move it to make room for 2013 cars.

Last year, I sold a LEAF to the creative director on the Nissan account at Chiat Day. We're in touch a lot these days since they are working on the LEAF campaign for the fall. Based on his questions, and those of other creatives I've met with, I suspect it will be effective, but time will tell. I certainly was wrong about how many people were going to buy this car the first two years.

The end game is clearly electric vehicles. Anyone looking far enough down the road has to know that. The big question is how quickly we'll get there.

 

[Nubo]

Agreed. Apple products are expensive but at least they are usually elegant and stylish. I don't think much of an argument could be made that the Leaf is either...

You're comparing Apple to Leaf? Sorry, I am not an Apple fan at all ... cultish ... whatever ... but they do make (overpriced) beautiful products.

I'm considering more the advantages of "thinking different", where Apple was in 1997 or so -- when people like Michael Dell were suggesting Apple should just pack it up and liquidate the company :roll: . They were making products that had functional advantages that served needs that people didn't realize they had. Along those lines I think the LEAF satisfies needs when it comes to driving, that ICE-car drivers simply haven't considered because they have become so inured to the hassles of petrol and the "suck-squeeze-bang-fart" engine.

I am truly enjoying the LEAF from a number of perspectives

clean, pure, linear throttle response with no dips, valleys, power-lag or dead spots
no stumbling
no fumes
always full when I'm ready to leave in the morning
quiet serene driving
etc, etc.

It's just a magic carpet ride.

I guess the styling is a matter of opinion. I think it's fine for what it is -- a family car. I like it. It has a nice blend of the familiar and the new. It doesn't need to be all things to all people. EV sports cars, convertibles, etc. will come. But take a look around. Most cars on the road do not have spectacular styling and they sell reasonably well.

That being said, I'm not blind to some of the conceptual misqueues and idiosyncracies. Useless solar panel, etc... I've done my share of complaining. Mostly because I'm in love with the concept.

But again, The Apple turnaround began with "Think Different" and products that justified the claim. The truly elegant hardware design began with the original iMac and gradually took them to the next level. But it was all built on the underlying user experience -- the interface. And the interface between the LEAF and owner is just as compelling and just as much a harbinger of potential as the Apple products in 1997.

 

[TomT]

Yes, it IS "fine." But Apple has never been happy with just "fine"; they set the hurdle much higher than that and I believe the Leaf needs to as well.

I think it's fine for what it is -- a family car. I like it.