Maintaining an optimal battery

[bobsfreeleaf]

With my 50-60 mile So. Cal commute, coupled with my desire to go 70 on the freeway, I feel the need to charge to 100%. However, I am torn (even though I have a lease) when charging above 80%. Many others have said, don't sweat it; charge to 100%. I have also received the caveat, just don't let it sit, especially in the sun on a hot hot day. Ok, then. Question: If I NEVER let the car sit above 80% unless I plan on driving it in the next couple of hours, and NEVER let it sit above 80% in the sun on a hot hot day, how much battery degrade will I get compared to never ever charging above 80%. If the answer is none, or next to none, ya made my day.

 

[braineo]

I don't understand this mantra of not charging to 100%. If Nissan didn't allow leeway and the battery self destruct, I'd rather it do it within 5 years and before the 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty.

if things turn out badly, we can always sue. Why would you pamper the battery if you really need the range? And why would a manufacturer allow you to overcharge and damage the battery, seems that is the reason for a battery management system. if the desig is flawed, then time to call the lawyers. I'd rather find out while I still have the factory warranty.

 

[Stoaty]

With my 50-60 mile So. Cal commute, coupled with my desire to go 70 on the freeway, I feel the need to charge to 100%. However, I am torn (even though I have a lease) when charging above 80%. Many others have said, don't sweat it; charge to 100%. I have also received the caveat, just don't let it sit, especially in the sun on a hot hot day. Ok, then. Question: If I NEVER let the car sit above 80% unless I plan on driving it in the next couple of hours, and NEVER let it sit above 80% in the sun on a hot hot day, how much battery degrade will I get compared to never ever charging above 80%. If the answer is none, or next to none, ya made my day.

There is no data to answer your question, but anecdotally it doesn't seem to make much difference.

 

[smkettner]

With my 50-60 mile So. Cal commute, coupled with my desire to go 70 on the freeway, I feel the need to charge to 100%. However, I am torn (even though I have a lease) when charging above 80%. Many others have said, don't sweat it; charge to 100%. I have also received the caveat, just don't let it sit, especially in the sun on a hot hot day. Ok, then. Question: If I NEVER let the car sit above 80% unless I plan on driving it in the next couple of hours, and NEVER let it sit above 80% in the sun on a hot hot day, how much battery degrade will I get compared to never ever charging above 80%. If the answer is none, or next to none, ya made my day.

I think you will be fine charging 100% with the end timer set to minimize time at 100%

 

[surfingslovak]

I think you will be fine charging 100% with the end timer set to minimize time at 100%

Yes, don't worry, be happy If you really cared that much about the battery, you could try to keep the car as cool as possible, park in the shade, and away from the sun. As a lessee, I think it would be better if you simply enjoyed the LEAF for what it is.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I don't understand this mantra of not charging to 100%. If Nissan didn't allow leeway and the battery self destruct, I'd rather it do it within 5 years and before the 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty.

if things turn out badly, we can always sue. Why would you pamper the battery if you really need the range? And why would a manufacturer allow you to overcharge and damage the battery, seems that is the reason for a battery management system. if the desig is flawed, then time to call the lawyers. I'd rather find out while I still have the factory warranty.

Since I am on a lease it is not really important to me but, I understand the warranty does not restore your battery to a full 12 bars. So if I owned, I would worry about it.

 

[cwerdna]

I don't understand this mantra of not charging to 100%. If Nissan didn't allow leeway and the battery self destruct, I'd rather it do it within 5 years and before the 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty.

if things turn out badly, we can always sue. Why would you pamper the battery if you really need the range? And why would a manufacturer allow you to overcharge and damage the battery, seems that is the reason for a battery management system. if the desig is flawed, then time to call the lawyers. I'd rather find out while I still have the factory warranty.

Since I am on a lease it is not really important to me but, I understand the warranty does not restore your battery to a full 12 bars. So if I owned, I would worry about it.

Yep. Hopefully braineo has read http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and realizes that the 8 year/100K mile warranty doesn't cover battery capacity loss.

For owners, I'd care most about battery longevity. What if my practices cause excess degradation but not to the point of being losing 4 capacity bars before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty is up?

If I were leasing w/no intent to buy the car afterward, I wouldn't care that much and only enough so that the car still has enough range for me by the end of the lease.

 

[nosuchthing]

Welcome to the 100 percent chargers' club!

I am a big believer in 100% charging to keep the battery "working." It's not about memory, it's about "stretching" it to capacity (actually below it's max anyway) so it keeps its "shape."

This is highly unscietific. I understand that. I know nothing about Li chemistry. However, I have 36,000 miles on my 2011. My range has dropped 2 miles to 71 IN WINTER and I expect it to return to 73 (all freeway measured miles with hills) in summer. So, I cannot report any changes in range at this time after almost 2 years of ownership. No dropped capacity bars, of course.

We charge 100% every night - end of story. We plug in as late as possible and drive off in a.m. Done.

I fully expect to swap this battery as soon as denser product comes out and someone puts it in for me professionally. Can't wait to see 174-mile range on that thing one day. Of course then that 3.3 charger will become a problem. But that's a whole another story...

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
FWIW, nobody or almost nobody agrees w/your beliefs/views on battery longevity. And, it goes against everything or virtually everything I've seen published on li-ion battery life. Others can look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=245534#p245534" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the posts after it.

You happen to live in a very good climate from a battery degradation (by temperature) point of view, just like those who live in places like San Francisco, Portland and Seattle do.

Try your practices while living in Phoenix and I think you'd be changing your tune.

 

[surfingslovak]

Try your practices while living in Phoenix and I think you'd be changing your tune.

Indeed. While I'm happy for ILETRIC and wish him all the best, I don't see any reason to keep repeating the same discussion every other month. We already know that 80% vs 100% charging won't lead to a very significant difference in battery capacity after two years of ownership. The battery simply won't have enough time to spend sitting fully charged if the vehicle is driven daily. Nissan has always been very tightlipped about battery data, and aside from anecdotal data, we really have no good way of assessing the impact of all the contributing factors on battery life. This is also the reason why the overwhelming impact of local climates and micro-climates came as such a surprise to many. It was simply never mentioned before. That said, every study and analysis confirms that lithium ion batteries don't like sitting fully charged, and every charge and discharge lowers battery capacity, because of underlying composition changes. This has nothing to do with stretching or any comparable biological processes.

 

[cgaydos]

Try your practices while living in Phoenix and I think you'd be changing your tune.

Indeed. While I'm happy for ILETRIC and wish him all the best, I don't see any reason to keep repeating the same discussion every other month. [|/quote]

I'm a newbie but I understand this sentiment. Is there any place where there are some simple rules- of-thumb published regarding Leaf battery care posted? Some place where you can point newbies like me?

Having read all that I can i get the heat issues - personally very happy with my very cool climate. I'm starting to understand the 100% issues if left at that level for a long time or in high temps. Also get that going below low battery warning is bad. But it took me quite a while to get to this point. Ideally there would be a posted simple summary on battery care for new Leaf owners.

 

[surfingslovak]

Yes, absolutely: Eight Tips to Extend Battery Life of Your Electric Car and a related thread started by the author. The Wiki is a good point of reference as well. Additionally, I'm sure there are many well-meaning owners in this community willing to share their insights.

 

[nosuchthing]

So, there you have it, club members. The smart people have spoken.
The camp you want to belong to is all ultimately up to you.
Bottomline for me has always been that I need the miles. And I do admit that I absolutely
DO NOT charge the car if it is not to be driven the next morning. That's a given.

Happy trails, y'all.

 

[surfingslovak]

DO NOT charge the car if it is not to be driven the next morning. That's a given.

Now you are telling us!

I think your voice is an important reminder telling us that the impact of 80% vs 100% charging could be overrated. At the same time, it might be equally import to maintain a more balanced point of view, and tell newcomers what the typical recommendations were. Do you see it the same way?

 

[nosuchthing]

The problem is: what do we tell them? Nissan says one thing, Ingineer says the other, and I say 100%.

I live by Murphy's Law: If it jams, force it; if it breaks it needed replacement anyway.

If I didn't push things to the limit, I'd be still stuck in Bratislava eating onions, spekacky and sauerkraut. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

 

[Volusiano]

The problem is: what do we tell them? Nissan says one thing, Ingineer says the other, and I say 100%.

Well, Nissan doesn't say much to begin with. They just say keep to 80% if you can help it.

Ingineer didn't say the other/opposite. He just adds more info: yes, stick to 80% but if you must go to 100%, try to use it asap.

You, on the other hand, preach the opposite, that 100% won't hurt and even helps (you call it "stretching the bladder" to make it hold more). That's just wrong.

Now it looks like the cat is out of the bag and you don't really practice what you preach. Why?
1. You wait until very late before plugging in -> push out the 100% finish line much closer to the morning when you use it right away -> what Ingineer says.
2. You don't top it off to 100% again if you don't need the car the next morning (you just said so) -> What Ingineer says.

So I say people should listen to Ingineer but not you.

 

[Stoaty]

If I didn't push things to the limit, I'd be still stuck in Bratislava eating onions, spekacky and sauerkraut. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

That approach may work well in many aspects of life... but a Lithium ion battery is not one of them.

 

[nosuchthing]

I know I play it fast and loose with some facts... By "Ingineer" I meant the quintessential experts that have berated my opinions here in the past about this issue.

Ingineer may have put in his 5 cents on the subject...or may have not. I take 5th on that.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Yes, absolutely: Eight Tips to Extend Battery Life of Your Electric Car and a related thread started by the author. The Wiki is a good point of reference as well. Additionally, I'm sure there are many well-meaning owners in this community willing to share their insights.

Thanks so much. This should be required reading before any Leaf purchase. Also, the other post from the guy who heated his battery to the max using multiple quick charges just trying to get home. It's not that I disagree with charging to 100% as and when needed. it's that one should not stupidly charge to 100% because you don't know, or care about, that true facts. Funny how, absent the facts, your fantasy can override common sense leading people to believe things that are just not true. :?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Funny how, absent the facts, your fantasy can override common sense leading people to believe things that are just not true. :?

Oh, we have habitual offenders of that right here on the forum.