Losing 12th bar, but keeps reappearing?!

[peakay]

Hi there,

The last couple mornings I've driven our kids to school in the Leaf I noticed 1 bar was missing from the readout. The car has just under 11k miles and I was very disappointed to see this (though not devastated as its under lease).

However, on the way back home the 12th bar comes back and stays in the display. Both times it has come on the return trip from school going up a slight grade.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is the missing bar an anomaly or is the car really losing the 12th bar/15% of battery capacity?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[TomT]

Are you sure you are looking at the thin capacity bars to the right and not the wider fuel bars?

 

[peakay]

Are you sure you are looking at the thin capacity bars to the right and not the wider fuel bars?

100% - zero doubt. I also searched extensively, but did not turn up any hits on this subject.

In fact, what really made it stand out is I had 12 fuel bars next to only 11 capacity bars. Is that even possible? Next time I will snap a cell phone pic.

 

[garsh]

Yes, the "fuel" bars keeping going up to twelve.

 

[camasleaf]

Maybe the "fuel bar" drops one giving you the impression on 12 capacity bars.

 

[peakay]

Maybe the "fuel bar" drops one giving you the impression on 12 capacity bars.

No, I'm 100% certain its the capacity bar.

 

[TomT]

Yes, the capacity bars show the absolute amount of energy the battery can hold and the fuel bars show how full the battery is regardless of capacity. Thus you could have only two capacity bars but still have 12 fuel bars. Each one would simply represent less energy...

In fact, what really made it stand out is I had 12 fuel bars next to only 11 capacity bars. Is that even possible? Next time I will snap a cell phone pic.

 

[GeekEV]

You should probably have the dealership do a battery diagnostic. Perhaps there is an intermittent connector somewhere or cell(s) that have failed or are about to. You certainly shouldn't be losing bars at 11k miles.

 

[silvermiata]

Hi I was / still am sometimes getting the same thing. I have a LEAFSpy and OBD hooked up to my LEAF.

I believe the 12th bar disappears around the 85% SOH level. But the SOH level seems to vary day by day (sometimes a % or two up or down). So when it is 85% SOH or up the 12th bar appears. When below 85% the 12th bar disappears.

This is purely andectodal on my part. I have not observed this scientifically enough to know with certainty that this always occurs. But it seems to be a plausible expanation for mine and your situation where the 12th bar appears/disappears

 

[johnrhansen]

they should have designed the software so that it removed the bar permanently the first time it hits the target value. They should write an update to correct that.

 

[mwalsh]

Sounds like elections sloshing around in the tank to me.

 

[GerryAZ]

Sounds like elections sloshing around in the tank to me.

Couldn't you dampen the oscillations with a resistor?

 

[peakay]

This is purely andectodal on my part. I have not observed this scientifically enough to know with certainty that this always occurs. But it seems to be a plausible expanation for mine and your situation where the 12th bar appears/disappears

Makes sense to me. Question is, is this low enough miles for this to happen that we should take the car in? Would there be a warranty situation?

 

[TimLee]

Question is, is this low enough miles for this to happen that we should take the car in? Would there be a warranty situation?

You have provided NONE of the information needed to answer your question.
A search of your limited eight posts indicates you have a 2012 LEAF, that you got sometime late in 2013.
But there is zero info on where you are located, and completely unclear the date the vehicle was manufactured.
LEAF battery capacity is NOT driven by miles.
It is based on time, temperature, and then charging cycles.
Depending on climate it has been in and how it has been driven, a 2012 LEAF with 11,000 miles on it could have anywhere from zero capacity bars lost to three capacity bars lost.
Four capacity bars lost is unlikely, but even that might be possible if it spent the whole time in Phoenix sitting a lot of the time at 100% charge in a very hot garage with no insulation and did a lot of battery charge cycles with very few miles driven.
Tell us where the car has been and how it has been treated and a more accurate opinion will be provided.

The disappearing then reappearing capacity bar is a bit unusual.
The two reports in this thread are the first I have seen.
Several people got a capacity bar back after P3227 software change for a while, and some have went back up after dealer unintended reprogram of the BMS.
But coming and going several times with no software changes or reprogramming is a bit unusual.
Most have reported capacity bars uses a long time average.
Mostly they are slow to drop, but once gone they are gone.
Coming and going does sound like an intermittent connection problem in the battery pack.

 

[silvermiata]

Can't speak for the original poster. I didn't lose my first bar intermittently until I was close to 50000 miles (80000km). So my intermittent 12th bar LEAF has been very good to me.

 

[TimLee]

... I didn't lose my first bar intermittently until I was close to 50000 miles (80000km). So my intermittent 12th bar LEAF has been very good to me.

Yes, 50,000 miles for first capacity bar loss is pretty good.
Means you must live in a fairly moderate climate and be driving around 15,000 miles per year.
The best info source on lost battery capacity bars is the WIKI, but it has a limited amount of data as many people such as myself still need to add their data.
See:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#one_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can see that loss of first capacity bar has ranged from 4,918 miles to 78,600 miles.
(You have to be careful in looking at it as JasonT has incorrectly shown vehicle mileage rather than battery mileage for his second battery.)
It depends on where you live and how many miles you drive per year.

 

[TomT]

There is both hysteresis and a delay that is supposed to prevent this scenario...

I believe the 12th bar disappears around the 85% SOH level. But the SOH level seems to vary day by day (sometimes a % or two up or down). So when it is 85% SOH or up the 12th bar appears. When below 85% the 12th bar disappears.

 

[silvermiata]

@TimLee

Interesting link (good info there). I definitely feel OK about the whole bar loss thing. I'm in the Toronto area (yes Great White North) and I don't baby my battery much. Something like 30 QCs and usually 2-3 L2 charges in a day (I travel between 100-200km in heavy traffic city + highway a day (approx 60-120 miles a day) commuting (crawling @ 10-20 mph/15-30 kph as well as freeway driving at let's just say a bit over the speed limit on occassion). Work charge it and charge at home to 100% most days. Winters are brutal to range (especially last year) and I often will LBW and VLBW. Turtled twice. So overall I'm pleased with the battery. Still wondering about LEAF2 and also what a replacement battery (hopefully with longer range) might cost for LEAF1. Car is just under 3 years and is a 2012 (delivered near Christmas 2011)

Enjoy your LEAFs everyone and Happy Hallow'een

 

[turbo2ltr]

Next time it happens, make sure you COUNT the capacity bars.

I thought the same thing until I realized I was using the SOC bars *as a reference* for 12, only to realize that a changing SOC made it LOOK like the capacity bars were changing.

 

[adric22]

In fact, what really made it stand out is I had 12 fuel bars next to only 11 capacity bars. Is that even possible? Next time I will snap a cell phone pic.

Yes, this is actually an annoying aspect of how Nissan designed the instrument cluster. Once you start losing capacity bars it becomes increasingly difficult to look at your fuel bars and know how much charge you have left, especially at night. The capacity bars (when all 12 of them exist) work well to give your eyes a frame of reference. On the bright side, with the 2013 model you get a real SOC gauge that you can use, but in 2011-2012 models you just have to live with it.