Leaf Owners : Actual Lease Details

[planet4ever]

Get over it. You are getting a $5000 rebate from the state. I don't feel sorry for you having to pay a fraction of money you get in incentives from the state on the state sales tax you are paying on government incentives.

Well, it's a pretty big fraction - like 3/5. And only the first wave among us are likely to ever see the money. So if your chances are 50/50 of getting the rebate at all then it is a losing bet: 0.5 * (+$2K) + 0.5 * (-$3K)

 

[lne937s]

Get over it. You are getting a $5000 rebate from the state. I don't feel sorry for you having to pay a fraction of money you get in incentives from the state on the state sales tax you are paying on government incentives.

Well, it's a pretty big fraction - like 3/5. And only the first wave among us are likely to ever see the money. So if your chances are 50/50 of getting the rebate at all then it is a losing bet: 0.5 * (+$2K) + 0.5 * (-$3K)

Seriously, you are counting the entire state sales tax on the car and comparing it to the incentive? Guess what, everybody else has to pay sales tax on their cars too. You are paying 7.25% state sales tax on $12,500 ($7500 federal and $5000 state) in government money given to you- or abouut 1/14th of the incentive. California is getting a far better deal than almost anywhere else in the country, and people there are still crying about it.

 

[evnow]

Back to topic.

 

[LEAFguy]

I wish I can go a day earlier, finish all the paperwork and pickup the car the next day. I'll definitely be taking my laptop to check their lease calculations.

You can. Tell the dealer that you want to do the paperwork the day the car comes in, and pick it up the next after they have cleaned, prepped and charged it. This is not at all uncommon. (Except the charging part... )

 

[evnow]

You can. Tell the dealer that you want to do the paperwork the day the car comes in, and pick it up the next after they have cleaned, prepped and charged it. This is not at all uncommon. (Except the charging part... )

You can see what actually happened in my blog.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/blog.php?u=235&b=48

 

[mxp]

I wanted to mention one quick lease piece of information that we found out last night when picking up our Leaf. If you choose the lease, Nissan reduces the balance by 7,500 like an instant rebate which reduces the total amount , but you only realize about 61% of that amount ($7500) as you will only make 39 payments. If you buy and are in a tax situation to get the benefit of the full amount back at the end of the year, you can take advantage of the full $7,500 back from Uncle Sam. That is just one of the reasons we went with a purchase!

Sorry if these area just common sense, but we used these and other factors to come to the decision to buy.

fYi

Wow, that's confusing ! Although I can't believe the 39 payments is the reason you are losing 39% of the $7,500. I think it's because the residual is 39% on a 48month/15k miles lease. I think someone gave you some bad info. That 39% loss of benefit would at least make SOME sense if it's based on residual, and you get the rest when you buy out the lease. Looks like this is an AZ rule. In CA you definitely get 100% of the 7,500 up front. The AZ rule is weird, since it is a Federal tax credit not a state-level benefit. It is Nissan (as a lessor) that gets the Federal tax credit, and it's hard to swallow that state rules affect that. That would mean, if you buy the car, and get 100% of the credit, when you sell it, AZ would force you to pass on the proprotionate amount based on your sales price to the new buyer ???!! No way :?


Edit: Ok ... hold a minute. I still haven't had my coffee, and I am rethinking whay you posted. Are they saying you lose 39% of the benefit because of 39 payments and really mean that ??? That makes no sense! So, if you choose the 48 month lease you loose 48% (MORE on a longer lease ???). I am further inclided to go with "you got some bad info" !

LEAFer, Given that now we have more folks getting their leases, do we know for sure if you lose 39% of the $7500(in the AZ case) and could confirm if the CA folks do get 100% ? I'd very much like to see some of the calculations.... Thx.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

on my lease, my Rent charge is $3941.50 which is essentially interest on the loan and the amount that is directly removed from my tax credit.

now, if you want the $7500 back right away or do not qualify for the entire tax credit, you might be better off to lease. then purchase the lease contract. this will cost you the leasing fees, the purchase cost ($300 for me) but you will realize the entire tax credit immediately

 

[EVDRIVER]

Get over it. You are paying 7.25% state sales tax on $12,500 ($7500 federal and $5000 state) in government money given to you- or abouut 1/14th of the incentive. California is getting a far better deal than almost anywhere else in the country, and people there are still crying about it.

9.5% plus recently increased registration that is based on the purchase price each year.

 

[EVDRIVER]

on my lease, my Rent charge is $3941.50 which is essentially interest on the loan and the amount that is directly removed from my tax credit.

now, if you want the $7500 back right away or do not qualify for the entire tax credit, you might be better off to lease. then purchase the lease contract. this will cost you the leasing fees, the purchase cost ($300 for me) but you will realize the entire tax credit immediately

Based on looking at this lately a lease pay off immediately will cast about $1200 or more in total fees.

 

[LEAFer]

LEAFer, Given that now we have more folks getting their leases, do we know for sure if you lose 39% of the $7500(in the AZ case) and could confirm if the CA folks do get 100% ? I'd very much like to see some of the calculations.... Thx.

mxp asked me a direct question, so I am compelled to respond. Trouble is ... I am still confused by the information given to timaz. At the beginning of this forum membership I understood very little at all about leasing. Many of you here helped educate me. By the time I had digested the available spreadsheets and come to a decision to lease rather than buy, I think I am now more educated. The AZ case may work differently ... but that's hard to believe. Someone ( I think it was evnow ) said leasing is just another way of financing. As the CA spreadsheet shows (... I have not studied the others) , the $7,500 simply becomes part of the downpayment, reducing your capital cost and your monthly payment. When you lease this in effect turns the Federal Tax credit into an immediate rebate from the lessor. Since the residual value is based on the MSRP (so that at buy-out of the lease (if you so choose) the $7,500 would not make a difference), I have a hard time understanding where you lose any part of the $7,500 benefit. Yes, of course, you are paying some extra charges compared to purchase, but that's unrelated to the $7,500, and is true in any lease (part of the "another way of financing").

So ... I am still not an expert, and others here are chiming in. I'd rather not mislead with confusing answers, but only re-state that that original info given to timaz seems off-base, IMHO.

 

[evnow]

LEAFer, Given that now we have more folks getting their leases, do we know for sure if you lose 39% of the $7500(in the AZ case) and could confirm if the CA folks do get 100% ? I'd very much like to see some of the calculations.... Thx.

Definitely nobody loses anything on that $7.5K when you lease.

Some states like CA charge tax on downpayments. Since the $7.5K credit is considered a downpayment for lease, you pay tax on that. But, when someone buys, they pay tax on the full $33K - so they are paying tax on the $7.5K credit too.

 

[mxp]

... the $7,500 simply becomes part of the downpayment, reducing your capital cost and your monthly payment. When you lease this in effect turns the Federal Tax credit into an immediate rebate from the lessor...

LEAFer and evnow, thanks for your replies. That's also my understanding, which I hope is consistent with CA dealers.

The only financial related element that remains, is the element of "uncertainty" of the money factor/"not so obvious" interest rate on the lease. The lease docs do not explicitly state the interest rate nor is it certain that the rate will drop over time.

 

[LEAFer]

The only financial related element that remains, is the element of "uncertainty" of the money factor/"not so obvious" interest rate on the lease. The lease docs do not explicitly state the interest rate nor is it certain that the rate will drop over time.

True ... the actual document we signed at delivery does not explicitly show the interest rate. However, you have two avenues. 1. Dealer gives you a written quote during early negotiations or finalizing of the deal, including listing the "Money Factor" (MF). We did this, and found the obvious :roll: "computer error" of a 0.00329 MF. When I asked it be adjusted to what is officially listed elsewhere for Tier 0, all the numbers fell in-line with expectations. 2. Use the Lease Calc spreadsheets provided on this forum to double check on your dealer.

Equivalent APR = MF * 24. So ... they were initially trying to squeeze a 7.9% rate past us.

Yes, there's still uncertainty ... we don't know what lease rates (money factors) are going to do in near term.

Anyway ... hope this helps ...

 

[z0ner]

Can you display the MF tier or direct me to the thread that has it? I've seen it before but I tried searching and couldn't quite find it. Thanks.

 

[Carlos]

Can you display the MF tier or direct me to the thread that has it? I've seen it before but I tried searching and couldn't quite find it. Thanks.

Money Factor :

Tier 0 — 0.00204 (credit score Above 740) i.e. 4.9%
Tier 1 — 0.00224 (credit score 700-739)
Tier 2 — 0.00264 (credit score 660-699)
Tier 3 — 0.00369 (credit score 620-659)
Tier 4 — 0.00454 (credit score 600-619)

 

[idunk]

Can somebody please post the official source of the money factor? I don't think that I can point to this forum if I get a different number and the finance guy plays dumb. I searched a lot and I can't find the official source or a reference to it.
Thanks!

 

[evnow]

Can somebody please post the official source of the money factor? I don't think that I can point to this forum if I get a different number and the finance guy plays dumb. I searched a lot and I can't find the official source or a reference to it.

Tell the finance guy that one of the largest Leaf dealers posted this on the forum. Someone posted a scan of sheet NMAC too (though you will have to search for it). This is as official as it gets.

 

[idunk]

Can somebody please post the official source of the money factor? I don't think that I can point to this forum if I get a different number and the finance guy plays dumb. I searched a lot and I can't find the official source or a reference to it.

Tell the finance guy that one of the largest Leaf dealers posted this on the forum. Someone posted a scan of sheet NMAC too (though you will have to search for it). This is as official as it gets.

Thanks, evnow. I had missed that. I'll go search it myself then and repost here if I find it.

 

[idunk]

Ok. Here is the page in which Leon confirms the numbers.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1056&start=50

I haven't been able to find the scan of an NMAC document, I only found Spies' scan of the actual lease docs:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1067&start=180

 

[hategas]

One thing that irks me is that the dealer taking the $7,500 means if I decide to buy the car at the end of the
lease it in effect I am paying $7,500 over the price of the car. Am I wrong to look at it this way?