LEAF Collision Experiences

[RonDawg]

i think you are seeing small terminology differences in various state laws concerning the coverage.

mine was different (according to my insurance company) in that if its my fault, the deductible i was still responsible for but Nissan paid any differences between pay out and market value. if not my fault, then I am not out of pocket.

In the event the pay off of the lease is less than market value, I get that back after settlement with other insurance company. This part does not seem to be true in all states. So best bet; contact YOUR agent for details

What you are being held to is what the contract says, not what your agent thinks will happen. Your insurer is only responsible for making you whole again, either by giving you an equivalent or nicer replacement car (which NMAC apparently does not want to do), or paying out the Fair Market Value of the car (which they do).

As far as what you mention about the deductible and NMAC covering any differences between FMV and any early termination obligations, that's basically the same as I was saying.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think you are seeing small terminology differences in various state laws concerning the coverage.

mine was different (according to my insurance company) in that if its my fault, the deductible i was still responsible for but Nissan paid any differences between pay out and market value. if not my fault, then I am not out of pocket.

In the event the pay off of the lease is less than market value, I get that back after settlement with other insurance company. This part does not seem to be true in all states. So best bet; contact YOUR agent for details

What you are being held to is what the contract says, not what your agent thinks will happen. Your insurer is only responsible for making you whole again, either by giving you an equivalent or nicer replacement car (which NMAC apparently does not want to do), or paying out the Fair Market Value of the car (which they do).

As far as what you mention about the deductible and NMAC covering any differences between FMV and any early termination obligations, that's basically the same as I was saying.

i see you two live in different states so laws WILL vary. in my state and if my situation were the same as the OP's, MY insurance company would not be involved since I am not at fault. all my dealings would be with the other guy's insurance so my paying any deductible would not apply

 

[mwalsh]

i see you two live in different states so laws WILL vary. in my state and if my situation were the same as the OP's, MY insurance company would not be involved since I am not at fault. all my dealings would be with the other guy's insurance so my paying any deductible would not apply

See, that's what I PAY my insurance company for...to handle all that back and forth crap with the other guys insurer. So, yes, I'd temporarily have to pay out my deductible. But then my insurance company gets it back from his and sends me a check.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i see you two live in different states so laws WILL vary. in my state and if my situation were the same as the OP's, MY insurance company would not be involved since I am not at fault. all my dealings would be with the other guy's insurance so my paying any deductible would not apply

See, that's what I PAY my insurance company for...to handle all that back and forth crap with the other guys insurer. So, yes, I'd temporarily have to pay out my deductible. But then my insurance company gets it back from his and sends me a check.

i have processed 3 accidents (none were mine) and 2 were the others fault, one was ours. in the "other" situations, i dealt directly with the others insurance the whole time. I was offered help by my insurance agency and they did initially take a statement from us to determine fault (these were not "borderline" cases) and that was all but help was not needed. the process went rather smoothly (but slowly with one due to Prius being valued at a price higher than the original MSRP which meant it basically got kicked upstairs to Corporate in Dallas before final approval of check which was fine with me since they paid for my rental the entire time including $24 a day for the last week when i used my POV)

 

[Klayfish]

It can get pretty complicated, but in a nutshell, here's how it works. In 49 out of the 50 states, it's your decision who you wish to file the claim through. If you feel the other party is at fault, you have the option of going to your own carrier or filing a claim with the other carrier. If you file with the other carrier, they will do an investigation into the accident and determine who's at fault. If they decide their policyholder is at fault, they pay. If they don't have enough evidence to say their policyholder is at fault, they'll deny. Or they may do something in between, depending on state laws. If you go to your own insurance company, they're going to do an investigation as well. The difference is that they'll pay for your damages (less your deductible) immediately, regardless of fault. The investigation will help them determine if they can pursue the other carrier. Each insurance company does their own investigation, and they each make their own decision on liability. One common mistake people fall into is thinking the police determine liability. They don't. A police report is a piece of the puzzle, but the final decision is the insurance adjusters'.

The one exception to this? Michigan. For the most part, regardless of fault, you are required by state regulation to file a claim with your own insurance company. Even if you aren't at fault, your insurance company will pay your damages and typically cannot recover from the other driver/insurance. It's true "no fault" insurance.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It can get pretty complicated, but in a nutshell, here's how it works. In 49 out of the 50 states, it's your decision who you wish to file the claim through. If you feel the other party is at fault, you have the option of going to your own carrier or filing a claim with the other carrier. If you file with the other carrier, they will do an investigation into the accident and determine who's at fault. If they decide their policyholder is at fault, they pay. If they don't have enough evidence to say their policyholder is at fault, they'll deny. Or they may do something in between, depending on state laws. If you go to your own insurance company, they're going to do an investigation as well. The difference is that they'll pay for your damages (less your deductible) immediately, regardless of fault. The investigation will help them determine if they can pursue the other carrier. Each insurance company does their own investigation, and they each make their own decision on liability. One common mistake people fall into is thinking the police determine liability. They don't. A police report is a piece of the puzzle, but the final decision is the insurance adjusters'.

The one exception to this? Michigan. For the most part, regardless of fault, you are required by state regulation to file a claim with your own insurance company. Even if you aren't at fault, your insurance company will pay your damages and typically cannot recover from the other driver/insurance. It's true "no fault" insurance.

great explanation and one reason why i moved from there (MI) in my "other" cases, the one party readily admitted fault so no real investigation other than statements. the other did not but he was stupid enough to do it in front of a cop. it took less than 24 hours after the police report for the other insurance company to drop its investigation and agree to pay

 

[RonDawg]

i see you two live in different states so laws WILL vary. in my state and if my situation were the same as the OP's, MY insurance company would not be involved since I am not at fault. all my dealings would be with the other guy's insurance so my paying any deductible would not apply

See, that's what I PAY my insurance company for...to handle all that back and forth crap with the other guys insurer. So, yes, I'd temporarily have to pay out my deductible. But then my insurance company gets it back from his and sends me a check.

EXACTLY. And if people do this to try to avoid their own insurer finding out the accident...they will anyway.

First, in many states the accident itself is recorded on your DMV record. If the police come out and take a report, it will likely be noted on your DMV record. In California you are REQUIRED to fill out an SR-1 form with the DMV if the accident results in any injuries including fatalities, and/or the damage to any involved car exceeds $750 (VERY easy to do today). That form, which is to ensure all involved parties are carrying the state's minimum insurance coverage, will cause the accident to be recorded on your DMV record.

Second, I believe insurance companies share loss claim information with each other. So when it's time for you to change companies, they will know about any recent claims you may have made.

Plus as also mentioned previously, by going through your own insurer and paying the deductible, your car will be repaired right away. If you go through the other party's, you have to wait until they agree their insured was at fault. I only went through the other party's insurer once, when I got sideswiped while on a 2 week road trip. By the time I got back home, there was a message on my answering machine that they agreed to fix my car. But had I not gotten such quick notification from the other party's insurer, I would have coughed up the $500 deductible and let my insurer do the rest of the work.

About the only other time you should go directly to the other party's insurance is if the car you were driving at the time lacked collision coverage, since you won't really have a choice.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Here in FL we've been advised by our insurance company in cases where it's cut and dry (like you're stopped at a light and someone plows into you from behind) if the other guy has reputable insurance to just have their company handle it. It saves dealing with being out of pocket for the deductible while they subrogate the claim. You still report it to your company. It has worked out ok, I've found the other company to be very accommodating, probably because they are hoping you won't call the number on those "Got me 340k !!!" billboards.

 

[Klayfish]

Second, I believe insurance companies share loss claim information with each other. So when it's time for you to change companies, they will know about any recent claims you may have made.

Sort of. There's a database that the majority of insurance companies subscribe to. When an accident occurs that's been reported to insurance, it's reported to this database...assuming the adjuster enters the correct data (most companies have an automatic feed from their proprietary company claim software to this database). Therefore, for any company subscribing to the database, they could search to see if an individual, or car, or address, have prior history. One of the primary purposes of the database is to fight fraud, for example people who stage fake accidents.

Insurance companies will check the database, but they don't usually care if you've got a claim or two where you're not at fault. What they care about is if you have a history of 5 stolen cars, or a history of rear ending other people.

By the way, it's where Carfax buys a large portion of their data.

 

[RonDawg]

Second, I believe insurance companies share loss claim information with each other. So when it's time for you to change companies, they will know about any recent claims you may have made.

Sort of. There's a database that the majority of insurance companies subscribe to. When an accident occurs that's been reported to insurance, it's reported to this database...assuming the adjuster enters the correct data (most companies have an automatic feed from their proprietary company claim software to this database). Therefore, for any company subscribing to the database, they could search to see if an individual, or car, or address, have prior history.

That solidifies the point I'm making: unless you lack collision coverage yourself, I see little point in going through the other party's insurance rather than your own. Your insurance company will find out anyway, so you might as well make the claim through them, rather than fighting with the other party's directly and delaying getting your car repaired or replaced.

 

[RonDawg]

Here in FL we've been advised by our insurance company in cases where it's cut and dry (like you're stopped at a light and someone plows into you from behind) if the other guy has reputable insurance to just have their company handle it. It saves dealing with being out of pocket for the deductible while they subrogate the claim. You still report it to your company.

You won't be out of pocket on the deductible, but until the other party's insurance company accepts liability, you're stuck with a damaged and possibly undriveable car in the meantime. And you'll be fronting the money for a rental replacement unless you have access to another car.

And you may think determining fault may be cut and dried, but the insurance company may not think so.

BTW I'm saying this as someone whose vehicle was the victim of a hit and run, and while the suspect was tracked down thanks to a witness who got their license number, it still took me 6 months to get my deductible back despite the fact that the suspect and I shared the same insurer, and my car was legally parked when it was hit so fault was "cut and dried" on the suspect.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

^^^ In the case(s) I was referring to the other party didn't flee, they had insurance, and it was obvious enough to their insurance company that their policyholder would bear the blame that their customer service hopped to and offered us a free rental car and having our car repaired at a reputable shop of our choice. We didn't have to lay out a dime for anything (of course you can never get the inconvenience of the whole thing back). Our company said we could process it through them, but we don't carry rental reimbursement/loss of use and we would have to "front" the deductible for the repair.

Given those experiences I don't see how the advice to always work it through your own company is valid... also what my company told me is if the other company doesn't take responsibility, they (my company) would still be there to back me up.

 

[Boourns]

^ That's how I handled it when a girl sideswiped me last year. I just called her insurance and it was taken care of within a week, with no money out of my pocket and a rental car paid for. It did take a few follow up calls when her insurance was dragging their feet on contacting the other driver for her story. However, I would have had to do that even if my insurance company had been involved, as I needed it taken care of quickly because I was going to be travelling for business.

I think the bottom line is neither way is right or wrong. You just have to know what to expect from whichever way you choose.

 

[mwalsh]

^ I had to call my insurance company exactly twice. Once to let them know there had been an accident and once to let them know that I'd dropped my car off at the body shop (so they could schedule the adjuster to go look at it). If you have to chase your own insurance company down, then you're with the wrong company.

 

[Klayfish]

I think the bottom line is neither way is right or wrong. You just have to know what to expect from whichever way you choose.

Well said. I find that there's a fairly even split. Half of the people I deal with just want their insurance company to handle it for them regardless of liability. The other half flat refuse to call their own insurance company if they feel that they aren't at fault. Neither one is "wrong", as long as you understand how it works. What gets frustrating is when someone comes to us saying our policyholder is liable for their damages, but doesn't understand that we have to investigate. They demand we pay for their car and rental right now, but liability is still in question/dispute.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i see you two live in different states so laws WILL vary. in my state and if my situation were the same as the OP's, MY insurance company would not be involved since I am not at fault. all my dealings would be with the other guy's insurance so my paying any deductible would not apply

See, that's what I PAY my insurance company for...to handle all that back and forth crap with the other guys insurer. So, yes, I'd temporarily have to pay out my deductible. But then my insurance company gets it back from his and sends me a check.

EXACTLY. And if people do this to try to avoid their own insurer finding out the accident...they will anyway.

First, in many states the accident itself is recorded on your DMV record. If the police come out and take a report, it will likely be noted on your DMV record. In California you are REQUIRED to fill out an SR-1 form with the DMV if the accident results in any injuries including fatalities, and/or the damage to any involved car exceeds $750 (VERY easy to do today). That form, which is to ensure all involved parties are carrying the state's minimum insurance coverage, will cause the accident to be recorded on your DMV record.

Second, I believe insurance companies share loss claim information with each other. So when it's time for you to change companies, they will know about any recent claims you may have made.

Plus as also mentioned previously, by going through your own insurer and paying the deductible, your car will be repaired right away. If you go through the other party's, you have to wait until they agree their insured was at fault. I only went through the other party's insurer once, when I got sideswiped while on a 2 week road trip. By the time I got back home, there was a message on my answering machine that they agreed to fix my car. But had I not gotten such quick notification from the other party's insurer, I would have coughed up the $500 deductible and let my insurer do the rest of the work.

About the only other time you should go directly to the other party's insurance is if the car you were driving at the time lacked collision coverage, since you won't really have a choice.

ooh ok i gotcha ya! ya the option to not tell my insurance company will land me in jail where i live. not an option. they MUST be told and i have 72 hours to do so...

remember i did say that they did call me (within one hour of my reporting the accident) to take a recorded statement over the phone. This is done to determine fault. after that determination, the insurance company decides its roll. once again, they offered me help but i did not need it. my interactions with the other insurance company's went off without a hitch.

the only thing that went even slightly askew was the first Prius accident where I was not allowed to be reimbursed for rental car costs if using POV. that was not allowed until a settlement amount was reached. It took about 2 weeks for that to happen during which i was provided either a rental car at no charge or nothing. Now because the Prius settlement was greater than its original selling price, the check had to be authorized by several layers of the company and took 10 days to arrive. it was during those 10 days I was able to return the rental and be reimbursed in cash for the time I had to wait for the check which ended up being about $18 a day or so (back in 2006) or so.

On the other accident which i think took about 10 days to settle, we skipped the rental car option and they paid us for each day it took to get a settlement (in this case a repair) . that is my prefered method since i pretty much always have access to another vehicle in one way or another

 

[Rat]

That solidifies the point I'm making: unless you lack collision coverage yourself, I see little point in going through the other party's insurance rather than your own.

I disagree strongly. I was rear-ended once on the freeway, doing about $5000 of damage to my car (a Volvo C70 - a very expensive car to fix) and he knocked me into the car in front (and that went on for two more cars after that). The driver behind me admitted fault in the presence of the other drivers and in front of the "freeway patrol" tow truck operator (In California the state pays tow truck drivers to cruise up and down the freeways during rush hours to ensure crashes get pulled from the roads quickly). I called my insurance company, but they advised going through the other company so I did. There was a quick phone interview and the adjuster was clearly unhappy that I was a lawyer (I had given the at fault driver my card) but was relieved I said I had no pain and no known injury (at this time! but said if I woke up the next morning with excruciating neck pain I'd be putting in for medical damages, too). All I asked for was the car to be repaired at the body shop of their choice and a temporary replacement car. I had my car in the shop and a loaner by the next day. The repairs were done very nicely, but the resale value of the car is permanently lowered. The first rental car they gave me was a miserable little piece of junk so I went back to the rental company that the insurance company had sent me to and said I wanted something better or I would go rent something on my own equivalent to the C70 and send the bill to the insurance company. They immediately found a decent mid-size car, not equivalent to the C70, but nice. The point is that you can demand what you want from the other company. You have much less leverage with your own company. You can't sue your own insurance company for pain and suffering, loss of wages, or punitive damages since those aren't covered in your policy, and they know you aren't likely to change insurance companies because rates are always higher for new insureds than for long-term ones if your claims history is good. The other guy's company is worried you are going to sue their insured for those things, so their potential costs are much higher.

More to the point of your own insurer, of course they are going to find out either way. But they can't raise your rates if you are not at fault, so that doesn't matter. What they CAN take into account in setting your rates is whether you cost them money by making them handle your claim. If they have to handle it they have to investigate, they have to part with some capital for a time, which they may or may not get back from the other company, and they have to pay employees to handle the administrative paperwork. Believe me, they take into account everything they legally can in setting rates. You may think you are paying your insurance company to handle the hassle with the other company, but they don't see it that way. They believe they are just covering risk of loss. If you cost them money, they are going to get it back in your rates eventually, so if you can handle it yourself, you're ahead of the game on both ends. I probably had an advantage over some on this board being a lawyer and having had a lot of dealings with insurance companies. It's not fun dealing with adjusters, but I'm not intimidated by them. In my experience almost all adjusters are honest and the hard time they give some people is based on the ton of fraudulent claims that get made against them. Too many people consider getting smacked by another car like winning the lottery. I saw a lot of fraudulent auto crash claims made against my employers.

 

[RonDawg]

ooh ok i gotcha ya! ya the option to not tell my insurance company will land me in jail where i live. not an option. they MUST be told and i have 72 hours to do so...

Don't be so dramatic...

remember i did say that they did call me (within one hour of my reporting the accident) to take a recorded statement over the phone. This is done to determine fault. after that determination, the insurance company decides its roll. once again, they offered me help but i did not need it. my interactions with the other insurance company's went off without a hitch.

That happened with me on another accident I had, so I just made the claim directly with the other party's insurance. But acceptance of fault is not always cut and dried, nor prompt.

 

[RonDawg]

The point is that you can demand what you want from the other company. You have much less leverage with your own company. You can't sue your own insurance company for pain and suffering, loss of wages, or punitive damages since those aren't covered in your policy, and they know you aren't likely to change insurance companies because rates are always higher for new insureds than for long-term ones if your claims history is good. The other guy's company is worried you are going to sue their insured for those things, so their potential costs are much higher.

You can't demand what you want from the other company. If they are willing to accommodate you, great. But I can't demand that they provide me an S-class rental when the car I happened to be driving was a mid 70's 450SEL. (I know someone who works as an insurance adjuster, and he gets demands like that occasionally from people who have to make claims on old luxury cars.)

You're bringing lawsuits into the equation and that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

But they can't raise your rates if you are not at fault, so that doesn't matter.

They say that they can't. But can you really find out if the increased premiums is because of that, or a generic "increased risk from everybody" that insurance companies like to justify rate increases with? No, you can't, not unless you work for the company, or you poll EVERY single insured and try to figure out who got increases and who didn't and why.

By your own admission, insurance companies will find any reason to jack up the rate. You think that by saving them some work, they might spare you. Sorry, but I'm a lot more cynical than you are.

I don't trust insurance companies...just like I don't trust lawyers :lol:

 

[Klayfish]

The repairs were done very nicely, but the resale value of the car is permanently lowered. The point is that you can demand what you want from the other company. You have much less leverage with your own company. The other guy's company is worried you are going to sue their insured for those things, so their potential costs are much higher.

You may think you are paying your insurance company to handle the hassle with the other company, but they don't see it that way. If you cost them money, they are going to get it back in your rates eventually, so if you can handle it yourself, you're ahead of the game on both ends. I probably had an advantage over some on this board being a lawyer and having had a lot of dealings with insurance companies. It's not fun dealing with adjusters, but I'm not intimidated by them. In my experience almost all adjusters are honest and the hard time they give some people is based on the ton of fraudulent claims that get made against them. Too many people consider getting smacked by another car like winning the lottery. I saw a lot of fraudulent auto crash claims made against my employers.

I agree with some of what you said, but can also say that with all due respect, some of it is incorrect. In the resale value, you're refering to "diminshed value". That's a very hot topic, but I could make a strong argument against it. That's all about public stigma, not fact. The third party carrier (the other guys company) isn't worried if you're going to sue. If you're making an injury claim, you making an injury claim. Damage to the car is separate. You can't demand what you want from the third party carrier. Insurance companies pay what they owe. Yes, business decisions sometimes are made to pay more than what's owed (concessions to a body shop for repairs for instance), but that happens if it's our own insured or a claimant (other person). We don't just give what someone demands. And you're not ahead of the game as far as the insurance company collecting more premium from you if you file with the other carrier. Staffing levels, expenses, etc...are built around the total of claims made overall. That includes by policyholders and other parties making claims against them. In fact, most insurance companies spend more handling claims made against their policyholders than they do claims made by their policyholder.

I do agree that there are a ton of fradulent and inflated claims out there, and adjusters see it all the time. I spent years as an insurance fraud investigator, and I saw stuff that made my shake my head.

Gee...whodda thunk it? An insurance company person and an attorney not seeing things the same way?