It looks like I may be selling my Leaf...

[DaveNagy]

You are correct that a buyer of a used Leaf cannot collect on either of those two rebates/credits. Not a dumb question.

I think your math is essentially right. (I'm not sure if the $2500 CVRP is currently available. I haven't been paying close attention.) I share your confusion about why people appear to be willing to pay well more than $25k for a used Leaf. But apparently, some people are.

 

[evnow]

I share your confusion about why people appear to be willing to pay well more than $25k for a used Leaf. But apparently, some people are.

Anyone who wants to buy a Leaf but don't have enough fed tax liability to claim 7.5k in credit.

 

[mxp]

Also, when doing a private sale, be VERY careful about any form of payment other than cash!

I don't normally accept cash, either. Bank draft transfered at the issuing bank, that is then made out to a check in my name to take to my bank (in other words, I paid cash for that check, therefore not connected to the buyer in any way that they could trace it to my bank, or stop payment on it, or report it stolen or lost.

I won't have to worry about being knocked over the head with $30k cash in my pocket, possibly by the very person who bought the car from me.

I've never sold/bought a car like this before, so this thread is somewhat educational for me:

@Tony: Hmm, I am not sure if I follow this method... why would a seller accept a bank draft from a prospective buyer? A bank draft is unsecured and a stop payment could be made by the buyer.

If I sold the car, I'd request to follow the person to his bank and insist on a cashiers check made to my name. A cashiers check is like cash presumably, and a stop payment cannot be called upon it. At the buyer's bank, there are cameras around so there's an added safety measure.

If I am missing the point, pls help explain. ;-)

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think we're both saying the same thing. Buyer shows up with check/cash/whatever, we go to his bank and he hands me the "consideration" for the transaction. With that consideration handed to me safely at the teller's window, I pay to have a bank draft drawn in my name to take to my bank.

Should I be robbed 5 minutes later, I can stop payment on my draft. If I lose it before depositing at my bank, I can (eventually) get another.

At no time am I responsible for a bunch of cash, or at the mercy of some wrong doing on behalf of having a bum check.

 

[tps]

I think we're both saying the same thing. Buyer shows up with check/cash/whatever, we go to his bank and he hands me the "consideration" for the transaction. With that consideration handed to me safely at the teller's window, I pay to have a bank draft drawn in my name to take to my bank.

Should I be robbed 5 minutes later, I can stop payment on my draft. If I lose it before depositing at my bank, I can (eventually) get another.

At no time am I responsible for a bunch of cash, or at the mercy of some wrong doing on behalf of having a bum check.

If you are going to his bank, why can't he just leave the funds in his account until the two of you arrive at the teller's window? He can do a withdraw, and you can get the bank draft at the same time.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

when i sold my Prius i had 2 interested parties but we just could not coordinate a payment. all wanted to give me personal checks. their banks were not convenient and one had to have me go to their bank and wait for loan papers to be signed.

so, i ended up advertising $500 off for cash and sold it two days later. $12,500 all in hundreds. obtw, the ATM machine wont take more than $5,000 at a time. i was warned that no more than 50 bills can be deposited at one time, but you could do unlimited # of deposits

 

[cwerdna]

so, i ended up advertising $500 off for cash and sold it two days later. $12,500 all in hundreds. obtw, the ATM machine wont take more than $5,000 at a time. i was warned that no more than 50 bills can be deposited at one time, but you could do unlimited # of deposits

Yowza! I've never carried around that much dough before. Only problem is the fear of counterfeits. Whenever I did large transactions via Craigslist, I'd bring along one of those pens that's supposed to help detect counterfeits. I've heard claims that it's not foolproof (and I can understand some of the cases as to why).

I suppose if you accompanied the buyer to a bank and watched the cash change hands the entire time, it'd be safer.

(I've heard of so called supernotes from North Korea for years. I learned a bit more about it via streaming audio from the NPR News app. I think I heard these (but via the app): http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/11/139556457/drug-dealing-counterfeiting-smuggling-how-north-korea-makes-money" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/20/138166864/the-friday-podcast-north-koreas-illegal-economy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

nope this guy was a dealer and had a bank bag. the money he gave was in $2,000 banded bundles. he was pretty professional about the transaction. he even brought along two other drivers. he bought my car and headed over to look at another car

 

[mxp]

I think we're both saying the same thing. Buyer shows up with check/cash/whatever, we go to his bank and he hands me the "consideration" for the transaction. With that consideration handed to me safely at the teller's window, I pay to have a bank draft drawn in my name to take to my bank.

Should I be robbed 5 minutes later, I can stop payment on my draft. If I lose it before depositing at my bank, I can (eventually) get another.

At no time am I responsible for a bunch of cash, or at the mercy of some wrong doing on behalf of having a bum check.

Ah, I see that now. Thanks Tony. ;-)

 

[cwerdna]

I share your confusion about why people appear to be willing to pay well more than $25k for a used Leaf. But apparently, some people are.

Anyone who wants to buy a Leaf but don't have enough fed tax liability to claim 7.5k in credit.

I'm in that boat right now.

I don't recall if the OP has tried taking it to a few nearby Nissan dealers to see what they'd give him. I sold my 04 350Z to a Nissan dealer in Seattle and got a surprisingly high offer. It was better than what I advertised on Craigslist (which was getting little response) and higher than a used car dealership. On the other hand, another Nissan dealer gave me a ridiculously low offer which is why I suggest a couple Nissan dealers.

At least this is theoretically safer than selling to a random guy from CL.

If one wants to read my Z selling saga and some numbers, see http://my350z.com/forum/buying-leasing/527070-market-for-selling-an-04-350z-automatic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If the price on your car ends up being low enough, I might bite...

 

[DaveNagy]

If the price on your car ends up being low enough, I might bite...

Well, for those of you keeping score at home, I've received two offers from folks here on the forum. One for $19k, one for $23k. (That first one was from a dealer.) My Craigslist ad has been up for about 7 hours, and I've gotten one expression of interest, but no actual offers yet. (I listed it there for $26k.)

If I don't get any better offers, I could certainly take that $23k and still sleep at night. The fella is on this forum, after all. Seems like a good guy. But hopefully, all of your wild stories about people offering $30k turn out to be true.

I forgot all about the whole "getting clear title" thing. This is the first car I've ever sold that wasn't already paid off. Now I'm going to have to figure out how to come up with about $12k, pay off BoA, and then somehow show the potential buyer that a release-of-title is "in the works". Apparently, it takes 30 days for the actual release-of-title letter to arrive from the lender. (It also goes into the California DMV system at around that same time.)

BoA says that they can send or fax me a "zero balance" letter three days after I pay off the loan. I can pay the loan off at any local branch.

I guess in a perfect world, I and the buyer could go into BoA and pay the loan off "together".

 

[cwerdna]

Well, for those of you keeping score at home, I've received two offers from folks here on the forum. One for $19k, one for $23k. (That first one was from a dealer.) My Craigslist ad has been up for about 7 hours, and I've gotten one expression of interest, but no actual offers yet. (I listed it there for $26k.)

Be prepared for all sorts of low ball or whacky offers from CL. I'd gotten some of those and even one where someone wanted to swap me an 01 Honda Passport (rebadged Isuzu Rodeo) + some cash. My response to him was:

Sorry, no.

Part of the point of me selling is so that I don't have a 2nd car that needs to be shipped. I have no use for a Passport and have never been on the market nor wanted a SUV. The only acceptable trade would be for a Nissan Leaf.

I wouldn't ever want anything made by Isuzu anyway.

One of the respondents to my CL ad turned out to be a used car dealership. In his emails, he didn't initially represent himself as such. I only realized that when I used Google Street View on the address and saw it was that of a used car dealer. I did bring it there and they did give me an offer. They used car dealer said that's how they primarily get their used cars nowadays.

They were nice folks and I might've ended up selling to them if I hadn't visited that high offer Nissan dealer. Their offer was below what the Nissan dealer that I eventually sold to offered but WAY higher than the other Nissan dealer.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You may be facing a problem that the Leaf isn't as well known as we might think. I've had a couple friends drive mine, and unless they were just being polite, they were really floored by it. But they had never heard of it. Everyone seems to know what a Prius is, but there is just about zero Leaf awareness from what I've seen.

 

[cwerdna]

You may be facing a problem that the Leaf isn't as well known as we might think. I've had a couple friends drive mine, and unless they were just being polite, they were really floored by it. But they had never heard of it. Everyone seems to know what a Prius is, but there is just about zero Leaf awareness from what I've seen.

I do see some Leafs around here in my part of Nor Cal but yes, some non-car folks I know of have no idea what it is and most know little about it.

(My parents are totally not into cars and my mom knows virtually nothing about them. I've told her I've seen Leafs and she had no idea what they even looked like. I don't think she even knew it was an EV. They of course know no details about charging, EVSEs, range, J1772, price, etc. My mom thinks (w/o having run any numbers) that it'd be expensive to operate due to the high cost of electricity, which is partly true here, thanks to PG&E. It can be more expensive to fuel than my Prius depending on electricity prices, current usage vs. the tiers, etc.)

I think it'd be beneficial for the OP to pay off the loan ASAP so the buyer can receive the zero balance letter and also go w/the OP to a BofA branch to verify it together. Having extra stress/uncertainties just adds to complications. For example, I have no BofA account, so it might create extra complications (extra trips, paperwork, lag time, etc.) for me to try to pay off the balance of the loan that's not mine.

 

[davewill]

If I don't get any better offers, I could certainly take that $23k and still sleep at night. The fella is on this forum, after all.

That seems like a very fair offer considering that a brand new 2011 orphan at MSRP with the federal $7500, and the state $2500 comes close to that.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this kind of beg the question how many 2011 orphan Leafs are available for sale?

 

[cwerdna]

this kind of beg the question how many 2011 orphan Leafs are available for sale?

Should that really matter?

With virtually all other cars, a new car loses a fairly substantial part of its value (I don't have the % figures off the type of my head) the moment you drive it off the lot, amounting to thousands of $. The Leaf's pricing ends up being wacky though with the $7500 Federal tax credit, CVRP and the price increase on the '12 models along w/its forced features. Then, you've got the odd ordering system and the concept of orphans... This doesn't exist on virtually any other car.

I glanced thru autotrader.com last night for used Leafs within 500 miles on my zip code. The asking prices were (IMHO) bordering on absurdly high :?, given that the buyer should be ineligible for the tax credit and CVRP. I'm not convinced that someone ineligible for some reason (e.g. not enough tax liability) would want to shell out the prices I saw for a used Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this kind of beg the question how many 2011 orphan Leafs are available for sale?

Should that really matter?

as to the question of sale price? well no, of course not.

just thinking that having 2011's still for sale is not a good sign i would think especially in CA where the CWP and the additional $4K is probably less desirable.

 

[DaveNagy]

Okay, the car has been sold.

I'm afraid that for research purposes, I didn't get a very "interesting" price. $23k. That's a different $23k than the first offer I got for that amount. The second guy was willing to bend over backwards to accommodate the whole "we need clear title before the car can be re-registered" thing. Since all I really wanted was to get my money more-or-less back out of the car, I was happy to give somebody (not a dealer!) a good deal. I probably could have gotten more, but in my condition and situation a quick and easy transaction counts for a lot, too.

Check out the crazy process we're going to go through to complete the deal:

Me and buyer both bank at Wells Fargo, so after he had looked at the car for a while we met there to exchange some moneys. He handed me $6,000 in cash, which I immediately deposited. He got a copy of the receipt, in case I flee the country.

I kept the car. I drove over to Bank of America and paid off the $12k loan. Thanks to the buyer's cash, my checking account wasn't totally wiped out by that transaction. This aspect was very helpful.

Some time in the next week, the buyer is going to transfer another $5k or so into my account. They are in the process of selling a car, themselves. We didn't write that part into our elaborate bill of sale, but hopefully that'll happen as planned since it will make it so I'm hardly out-of-pocket at all after paying off the loan.

Next week, I'll call B of A and get them to send me a "zero balance" letter. I can show that to the buyer, to further reassure him that things are still proceeding as planned.

I'll continue to keep and drive the car until I leave for Georgia. (1/5/2012) Actually, I'm going to continue to "keep" it even after I leave. I'll store the car somewhere, maybe in the buyer's garage, since that seems simplest for all concerned. I'll keep the keys. When the title finally clears some time in mid-January, the buyer will transfer the remaining money into my account. Once the money is there, I'll sign over the title, and FedEx it and the keys to him.

Crazy, huh? I checked with my friend who works at the DMV, and she thought it sounded like a good plan. So, that's what I'm doing. I don't think I could ask for a more flexible (and trusting) buyer. (He's going to Hawaii for several weeks over the holidays, so he won't really miss the car.)

I eagerly await one of you pointing out the fatal flaw in my plan.

 

[gasmiser1]

Okay, the car has been sold...................................

I'll continue to keep and drive the car until I leave for Georgia. (1/5/2012) ...................................

I eagerly await one of you pointing out the fatal flaw in my plan.

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Well, I've done some tricky car sales transactions myself in the past. I must say, your buyer is quite understanding to allow you to continue to drive the car as it's sold. Anything can happen between now and the buyer getting the car, i.e., some idiot hit the car while you're driving it, door dings, act of nature-tree branch falling, vandalism, etc. But, I guess that's what your car insurance is for---protection.

I make it a policy not to continue to drive a "sold" car that I had for sale. Too risky.

Best of luck to you

***Don't forget to fill-out and mail into the DMV a "Release of Liability" card once the buyer actually takes possession of the LEAF.***