Help! First DWP bill post Leaf SUPER high!

[jescny]

So I got my new 2014 Leaf S on March 10th. I didn't get the fast charger, as I couldn't afford the higher lease payments and didn't want to have to install a charger at home. Plus, my salesperson told me it was fine to charge on a regular outlet at home. So, I have been charging my Leaf at home with the trickle charger at night. I've been pretty much charging it overnight most nights, thinking, heck, it's night time, don't they have reduced rates? Well, of course I've learned the hard way that they don't. I just got my DWP (Los Angeles) bill for March and April (part of the latter) and it's, like, $200 higher than it has been before. I checked online, and sure enough, it's all electricity, and started right when I got my Leaf. That's $200 for just over a month of charging! Agh! Needless to say I'm sort of freaking out. I understood that the electricity charges were going to be negligible compared to gas. What's happening? I called DWP and they said I had to call some other department to get a "Time of Use" meter, but then I looked into those on line and they apparently don't help, as the DWP will just jack up my daytime rates. What do I do? I am trying now to plug in mostly at work--I have to pay for parking there, but it's much cheaper--but now I am absolutely terrified to plug in at home. I hadn't been using the charge timer, but that's because a full charge takes forever on my car. Am I just screwed? Thought? Tips?

Thanks, all.

 

[derkraut]

Your conclusion that charging your Leaf raised your electric bill by $200 per month is impossible. (I suppose if you jacked up the front wheels and ran the car @ high speed 24hrs a day, you might be able to go thru $200 of electricity @ Los Angeles rates). Sometning doesn't add up. :?

 

[TomT]

Plus, QC has nothing to do with charging at home, of course... This is a first time poster and I am very suspicious...

Your conclusion that charging your Leaf raised your electric bill by $200 per month is impossible. (I suppose if you jacked up the front wheels and ran the car @ high speed 24hrs a day, you might be able to go thru $200 of electricity @ Los Angeles rates). Sometning doesn't add up. :?

 

[RonDawg]

I agree, something's not right with the math. The Leaf battery holds 24 kWH of electricity, but you can only use 21 of that. Assuming you come home every day, 5 days a week, on "empty", and charge it up to full (which would take 20 hours on 120 volt), and then again empty the battery, you'd have to be paying nearly 50 cents/kWH from LADWP in order to use up $200 worth of electricity in that month. And if that were the case, your monthly electric bill would likely be over $1000 for all the other electricity you'd be using.

 

[TomT]

My math, using the LADWP rates, nets about $40 a month with a full 21Kwh 5 days a week... And that assumes no reduced EV rate.

I agree, something's not right with the math. The Leaf battery holds 24 kWH of electricity, but you can only use 21 of that. Assuming you come home every day, 5 days a week, on "empty", and charge it up to full (which would take 20 hours on 120 volt), and then again empty the battery, you'd have to be paying nearly 50 cents/kWH from LADWP in order to use up $200 worth of electricity in that month.

 

[jsongster]

I'd take a look at the load on the panel... if all the night draws are on one leg of 240 that could be problematic. I'm not an electrician... but I could play one on tv... Any other ideas? Vampire leaks in other appliances... a meter that hadn't been read correctly in ages... a grow op moved in next door and hooked on without your permission... Or somehow swapped meters with you.

I want a finders fee if any of these prove to be it...

 

[KillaWhat]

My math, using the LADWP rates, nets about $40 a month with a full 21Kwh 5 days a week... And that assumes no reduced EV rate.

I agree, something's not right with the math. The Leaf battery holds 24 kWH of electricity, but you can only use 21 of that. Assuming you come home every day, 5 days a week, on "empty", and charge it up to full (which would take 20 hours on 120 volt), and then again empty the battery, you'd have to be paying nearly 50 cents/kWH from LADWP in order to use up $200 worth of electricity in that month.

First time poster with an improbable situation: I hope we are not wasting our time.
But, If we are not...
I agree, the math is not possible
Using the trickle charger is less efficient that an L2, but not more than about 10%

I almost didn't notice an increase in my electric bill.
I pay $0.09 per Kw, I charge about 60% a day (40% to 100%)
with Usable pack capacity of about 21Kw, (12.6 X .09) That's about $1.14 per day.
(assumes some loss due to EVSE)

5 Days a week/ 20 a month is $22.68 per month IF I DON'T CHARGE AT WORK WHERE ITS FREE!
(Which I do, because I'm a greedy little miser)
The reality is I probably don't spend more that $10 a month home electric.
My TED meter says I have 14,689 miles, and it's cost me $268 in electric from my house.
I consider that to be under the threshold of FREE.
I love this car.

More Math
Assume 4 miles per Kw, at 14,689 miles, that's 3672 KW Total.
At $0.09 per Kw, That's still only $330.50 if I charged at home the whole time.
Improbable math.
So:
1) Charge at work
2) Get a meter, TED or otherwise so you actually KNOW what the car is drawing.

 

[tszukow]

I'm in opposite spectrum of the cost of charging my Leaf. From the day one ,even though I have 3.2 Kw solar roof and cheap electricity rates here in BC I have never charged my car at home yet (except just testing my portable level 2). I charge at work and use free public chargers -I guess I'm a Cheap Charlie

 

[jescny]

Hey, all, thanks for weighing in. I don't blame you for being suspicious--I know I'm a first-time poster. But I'm not a nut job, I assure you. I'm a normal 46-year-old woman with a husband, a kid, and two pets. I also know zero about electricity. Now that you all have reassured me about how much power my car is drawing and helped me to know how much I should be paying I will call the DWP back and try to straighten it out. Clearly the bill can't be right, and the DWP is not exactly known for its impeccable bookkeeping. Perhaps its an error on their end.

I just want to review: My bill says I used 2185 kWh between 2/18 and 4/17. As opposed to 969 in the same time period last year. Please don't think I'm an idiot, but can you help me understand if that sounds right if I got my car on March 10th? I'm sorry, ya'll. Electricity is not my strong suit. But I can tell you that NOTHING else in the house has changed. The bill says they are charging
1,000 kWh x $0.13938/kWh for tier 1 charges,185 kWh x $0.16741/kWh for teir 2. What's the difference?


Thanks for taking your time to help me with this. I love my new Leaf so much, and want so badly to understand it. I appreciate any help you can give me.

Jessica

 

[KillaWhat]

The bill says they are charging
1,000 kWh x $0.13938/kWh for tier 1 charges,185 kWh x $0.16741/kWh for teir 2. What's the difference?

Jessica

The difference is that tier 1 is about 14 cents a Kw, and tier 2 is about 17 cents per Kw.
:lol: :lol: Sorry, Couldn't help myself. :lol: :lol:

We don't have the tier thing here, but I assume that if you use below a certain threshold usage, you pay tier 1, and if you go over, you run into tier 2

Going back to my math example.
If you, as an example, charge about like I do, then:

I use up about 60% of my pack during an average day.
Usable pack capacity is about 21Kw.
That means I need to replace about 12.5 Kw when I charge.

Using your supplied numbers, that would be a cost of $1.74 per charge on tier 1, and $2.09 on tier 2.

If you charged no where else, and you did it every day for 28 days, that would be $48.72 on tier 1, and $58.59 on Tier 2.
That's about 1/4 of your $200 estimate.

The reality is that you probably don't charge only at home, and you probably don't charge every day (I don't), and you probably don't use 60% of your pack capacity when you do.
So that's a pretty worst case estimate.

I hope that helps.

 

[KillaWhat]

p.s.

Regarding Kw usage:
28 days x 12.5 Kw is only 350 Kw.
Not inconsequential, but not even close to the 1216 Kw consumption difference between the 2 bills.

 

[klapauzius]

I just want to review: My bill says I used 2185 kWh between 2/18 and 4/17. As opposed to 969 in the same time period last year. Please don't think I'm an idiot, but can you help me understand if that sounds right if I got my car on March 10th? I'm sorry, ya'll. Electricity is not my strong suit. But I can tell you that NOTHING else in the house has changed. The bill says they are charging
1,000 kWh x $0.13938/kWh for tier 1 charges,185 kWh x $0.16741/kWh for teir 2. What's the difference?

So that is 1216 kWH more than last year, but it is a two month period, so on average your consumption increased by 21 kWH per day over last year.

If you drove the car every single day to empty and did a full recharge at home, those numbers could be real.
However, you go the car on March 10, so that is impossible (unless you drove it to empty ~ 2 times per day).
How many miles did you drive since March 10?

 

[TomT]

Her rates also look a little odd. I'm on LADWP too, out in the valley, and my regular rates are about 3 cents a Kwh less... She must be on a different tariff...

 

[Nubo]

I just want to review: My bill says I used 2185 kWh between 2/18 and 4/17. As opposed to 969 in the same time period last year. Please don't think I'm an idiot, but can you help me understand if that sounds right if I got my car on March 10th? I'm sorry, ya'll. Electricity is not my strong suit. But I can tell you that NOTHING else in the house has changed.

That's a difference of 1216 kWH. Even if you drive the LEAF fairly hard, that much charging would take you over 4000 miles. Driven conservatively it would be over 5000 miles.

 

[smkettner]

and it's, like, $200 higher than it has been before.

The bill says they are charging 1,000 kWh x $0.13938/kWh for tier 1 charges,185 kWh x $0.16741/kWh for teir 2.

The math says the energy cost is ~ $171 total. How could the bill be $200 higher?
There must be other charges.

What was the kWh usage last year same month?
Is water, sewer, trash etc. on the same invoice?

Lots of people get to be utility billing experts after getting an EV

 

[smkettner]

LADWP does have multiple incentives to help with switching to TOU rates and paying for the L2 evse to take advantage of 12a to 5a EV charging rates.

https://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/faces/wcnav_externalId/r-sm-rp-ev?_adf.ctrl-state=vxqv2e6jw_4

 

[Stoaty]

Hey, all, thanks for weighing in. I don't blame you for being suspicious--I know I'm a first-time poster. But I'm not a nut job, I assure you. I'm a normal 46-year-old woman with a husband, a kid, and two pets. I also know zero about electricity. Now that you all have reassured me about how much power my car is drawing and helped me to know how much I should be paying I will call the DWP back and try to straighten it out. Clearly the bill can't be right, and the DWP is not exactly known for its impeccable bookkeeping. Perhaps its an error on their end.

"The LADWP said a new computer system is to blame for overcharging an estimated 65,000 customers. The LADWP implemented a new computer system in September to update its previous 40-year-old billing system, and the department admits the data is flawed."

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Department-of-Water-and-Power-Los-Angeles-Overcharged-Investigation-247265841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the 65,000?

 

[TomT]

On the other side of the coin, I have not received a water bill in 15 months or an electric bill is 6..

"The LADWP said a new computer system is to blame for overcharging an estimated 65,000 customers. The LADWP implemented a new computer system in September to update its previous 40-year-old billing system, and the department admits the data is flawed."

 

[Stoaty]

On the other side of the coin, I have not received a water bill in 15 months or an electric bill is 6..

That could be quite a bill when it finally comes!

 

[TomT]

I've called DWP three times and complained and recorded the conversations where they said they would take care of it so if it is, we will have a little talk...

On the other side of the coin, I have not received a water bill in 15 months or an electric bill is 6..

That could be quite a bill when it finally comes!