Heater does not come on if temperature set to 16

[camasleaf]

Hmm..., I tried the 60F seting this morning in the 2012 LEaf and it seems to work. While on defog for the windshield the CC consumption went to about 3kW than it dropped to about 0.4kW. Even with the fan full speed it did not increase. I clearly remember trying the same thing in the 2011 Leaf and did not work. I will try again this weekend, both Leafs.

 

[ksnogas2112]

I thought that is what was happening to me. However, when it gets cold enough it does use the heater. I was pulling about 3?? on the energy use display this morning but it was also 20* outside and no preheat.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

With our Mediterranean climate I haven't experienced this, but I have to wonder. If the energy pie charts are showing CC energy being used, then either they are lying or the heat is going somewhere. Surely the car isn't venting the heat outside to try to warm the earth. :shock: Are you sure this isn't just impatience? Unless you have preheated you will definitely get cold air until the heating element has had time to warm up the half gallon reservoir.

Let's see, 1 calorie will raise 1 ml of water 1°C, right? A kilowatt hour is 860 kilocalories, so to raise half a gallon of water 50°F when applying 2kW should take [mumble, mumble] about four minutes allowing for a bit of loss, if my mental math hasn't failed me.

Ray

I assume you're referring to my post.

No, it's not impatience, unless your math is off by an order of magnitude. After 15 minutes, the car still isn't outputting heat. If I bump the thermostat to 61F, it outputs immediately. Sure seems to me like it's heating the outside air and trying to warm up Syracuse. This is even true if I have preheated the car. Obviously the car is already warm, but the air coming out of the vents sure is less than 60F.

The more I think about this, the more I realize I should probably talk to Nissan rather than venting here...

 

[mynameisjim]

In my experience I get cold air but I still see a heater draw

 

[Deleted member 3147]

In my experience I get cold air but I still see a heater draw

I agree, I just tried this last night. Set at 61F, I was getting nice warm air. Switched to 60F and the air changed to cold but the energy display still showed a draw for CC. I kept it like this for ~30 seconds and it was still showing a power draw. I believe that set at 60F, the resistive heater still warms the water loop but the loop is not used to warm the air. I assume that eventually, as the water warmed to the high limit, the heater would shut off.

This is with all software updates except the recent brakes software update. Looks like another Nissan bug!

 

[Ingineer]

I have tested this extensively with real lab equipment. The only way, (save for my upgrade) to shut the heater absolutely off is to turn the climate control entirely off using the small button. If it is on in any mode, it will heat the liquid loop and maintain it's temperature, EVEN IF it's not heating the cabin! This still can produce a huge hit to range in the winter (10%). The liquid heating loop is not insulated, and cold air blasting under the hood will keep the PTC heater periodically activating to keep the loop warmed. If you watch it over time, even when set to 16C/60F, it will come on initially, and then it will repeat again and again. At the lowest setting (16C/60F) it will not attempt to heat the cabin much, so it will still feel cold, but the energy usage proves it's still eating valuable kWh.

-Phil

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I have tested this extensively with real lab equipment. The only way, (save for my upgrade) to shut the heater absolutely off is to turn the climate control entirely off using the small button. If it is on in any mode, it will heat the liquid loop and maintain it's temperature, EVEN IF it's not heating the cabin! This still can produce a huge hit to range in the winter (10%). The liquid heating loop is not insulated, and cold air blasting under the hood will keep the PTC heater periodically activating to keep the loop warmed. If you watch it over time, even when set to 16C/60F, it will come on initially, and then it will repeat again and again. At the lowest setting (16C/60F) it will not attempt to heat the cabin much, so it will still feel cold, but the energy usage proves it's still eating valuable kWh.

-Phil

In other words, the worst of both worlds! Why do we even HAVE that button?!?

 

[Ingineer]

In other words, the worst of both worlds! Why do we even HAVE that button?!?

Huh? The little button will shut it off, which means no energy consumed by the climate control, but in this mode in cold weather you rapidly get fogged windows. My upgrade allows you to still direct air at the windshield while keeping the heater absolutely OFF. The only other way to achieve this is to turn the CC off, then roll down your windows a bit to vent the humid air. The problem is this also creates additional aerodynamic drag.

-Phil

 

[RegGuheert]

Why do we even HAVE that button?!?

Huh?

I'm pretty sure the "Why do we even HAVE that button?!?" was a quote from "The Emperor's New Groove" and the "worst of both worlds" comment was referring to the 60F setting doing nothing except wasting energy.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Why do we even HAVE that button?!?

Huh?

I'm pretty sure the "Why do we even HAVE that button?!?" was a quote from "The Emperor's New Groove" and the "worst of both worlds" comment was referring to the 60F setting doing nothing except wasting energy.

Thank you! Yes, it was a paraphrase of the "Why do we even HAVE that lever" from The Emperor's New Groove. And yes, that's a bit obscure. I realized that after I hit submit, but thankfully someone got the reference!

 

[kolmstead]

Vwrl... heater is limited when you are in eco mode. You can override it as you did (set temp to 90) or shift out of eco.

 

[JeremyW]

Vwrl... heater is limited when you are in eco mode. You can override it as you did (set temp to 90) or shift out of eco.

Defrost will also override it.

 

[RegGuheert]

Vwrl... heater is limited when you are in eco mode. You can override it as you did (set temp to 90) or shift out of eco.

Thanks! I did not know about the 90F trick!

Defrost will also override it.

True, but defrost *also* turns on the compressor. You cannot turn it off while in defrost.

 

[Reddy]

OK, this morning I tested my car (VIN in the 6800's I think and delivered Aug 2011) to confirm. I have been reading about how ECO limits the heat and the heater doesn't run at 60 F, all the while thinking it was bull but afraid to speak to bluntly. Today, I did not use pre-heating on my 38 F cold-soaked car. I left the house and turned the CC down to 60 F. I tried various modes including "Auto", "Defrost", "Foot Only", etc. After less than a minute of driving, the heater began using between 1 and 2 KW. After a mile or so of city streets, the value seemed steady so I stopped that test and started another. Making sure I was ECO mode, I turned the heat up to 82 F and watched the energy consumption increase until peaking around 5 KW. So, anyway, with my Leaf, two myths are busted. Under certain circumstances I have seen the heater NOT consuming energy (at several temperatures including 60 F), but this was only after pre-heating the car to a higher temperature and then turning down the setting. Eventually, the car cools off and the heater returns to consuming energy.
Reddy

 

[Ingineer]

OK, this morning I tested my car (VIN in the 6800's I think and delivered Aug 2011) to confirm. I have been reading about how ECO limits the heat and the heater doesn't run at 60 F, all the while thinking it was bull but afraid to speak to bluntly. Today, I did not use pre-heating on my 38 F cold-soaked car. I left the house and turned the CC down to 60 F. I tried various modes including "Auto", "Defrost", "Foot Only", etc. After less than a minute of driving, the heater began using between 1 and 2 KW. After a mile or so of city streets, the value seemed steady so I stopped that test and started another. Making sure I was ECO mode, I turned the heat up to 82 F and watched the energy consumption increase until peaking around 5 KW. So, anyway, with my Leaf, two myths are busted. Under certain circumstances I have seen the heater NOT consuming energy (at several temperatures including 60 F), but this was only after pre-heating the car to a higher temperature and then turning down the setting. Eventually, the car cools off and the heater returns to consuming energy.
Reddy

Thanks for the info, and your results confirm my lab tests. Regardless of setting, if the climate control is on, the system will attempt to keep the heater fluid loop warmed. If you preheat and end up with a hot loop, you may not see the energy usage right away. The heating loop will cool down, (fast, as it is not really insulated) and energy use will commence. Keeping it in Eco will decrease this usage, but it can still chow over 10% of your range.

-Phil

 

[vrwl]

Vwrl... heater is limited when you are in eco mode. You can override it as you did (set temp to 90) or shift out of eco.

Ah hah!!! This is my first winter with the car, and I completely forgot that I had read something way back last summer somewhere about CC being limited in ECO mode. Yes, that was the problem, I was in ECO. Thanks much!

 

[vrwl]

Vwrl... heater is limited when you are in eco mode. You can override it as you did (set temp to 90) or shift out of eco.

Ah hah!!! This is my first winter with the car, and I completely forgot that I had read something way back last summer somewhere about CC being limited in ECO mode. Yes, that was the problem, I was in ECO. Thanks much!

Just texted my husband with your answer about ECO mode. He texted me back and said it should be called "ECOLD" mode! ROFL! :lol: