Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[Deleted member 9549]

I see no "basic math" to justify a 38 mile range hybrid having more EV miles than a 73 mile EV.

Can you provide a link to a study showing more EV miles in the hybrid Volt vs. the EV Leaf?

In my case I'd be driving 50% gas if I had a Volt whereas I'm driving 100% electric with the Leaf. One size doesn't fit all.

One size doesn't fit all and it's definitely counter intuitive - but based on these two charts describing the average driver, it is possible that Volt could return more EV miles, assuming that the driver makes the all the trips listed in the chart.

I get a file not found on that link.

We typically drive 40-60 miles a day and sometimes even 100. We would end up running gas every day in a Volt. We are doing it all electric in the Leaf. We are blowing through our lease mileage allowance so we'll have to slow down at some point. We're already at 3400 miles after 2 1/2 months. We've found that we've been using the Leaf almost exclusively for what we used to use two ICE vehicles. We use the ICE (minivan) for long road trips that the Volt couldn't handle anyway due to its limited cargo capacity.

 

[scottf200]

There have been many post and threads about the irony that Volt drives put on a lot of EV miles (last one I recall was from a LEAF owner who also later bought a Volt).
His basic point was Volt driver have no concerns about running their battery all the way down to "turtle" because the ICE kicks in. LEAF owners generally leave a large "buffer" instead of driving down to VL/turtle. I ate dinner with a friend after work and drove ~60 miles yesterday and got 45.2 EV miles in (45 was estimate when I got in the car that morning).

Looking at this thread and how it has come alive in the last two weeks and the Volt forum, I think the Volt sales for August 2013 will show a strong rebound and predict about 2k plus in sales.

Its primarily a few folks who keep posting on MNL about the Volt, some of whom don't even own a Leaf, including a moderator from gm-volt.com

Seriously dm33 when are you going to quit with the diatribes (a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something)?

Here are the first posters that started a new series/string of post. Check the facts instead of making things up.

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:25 pm LTLFTcomposite
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 am edatoakrun
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:41 am drees
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:42 pm edatoakrun

 

[jhm614]

I edited my original post but here is the link, too: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl10023/fig4_5.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Seriously dm33 when are you going to quit with the diatribes (a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something)?

Here are the first posters that started a new series/string of post. Check the facts instead of making things up.

Quoting folks who started a thread two months ago answers the question why its active now?

Diatribe about the Volt site which you are a moderator of, who doesn't respond to PMs, who doesn't own a Leaf. The gm-volt site where anywhere near this number of posts positive about the Leaf would not be allowed and the posters banned. Tell me otherwise. Yet I'm not allowed to question the agenda of several recent Volt threads on the Leaf forum?

 

[RegGuheert]

His basic point was Volt driver have no concerns about running their battery all the way down to "turtle" because the ICE kicks in. LEAF owners generally leave a large "buffer" instead of driving down to VL/turtle.

This is the main point, IMO.

But I think the situation is really the opposite of the following for many folks:

So basically for drivers that cover more than 5,000 miles a year, a Leaf provides better EV performance.

In reality, what I think has often occurred is that people who are selecting between a Volt and a LEAF have chosen based on how far we plan to typically drive it. You said:

If we assume the effective range of the Leaf to be 50 miles,...

I think many people who purchased the LEAF made that assumption. I know we did. But since we typically drive only 25 to 40 miles per trip, we thought the LEAF would be fine for us. If our typical drive had been 65 or 70 miles, I think we would have chosen the Volt. Of course the Volt can handle the shorter trips on electricity, as well, but with the LEAF's 50% larger battery, the DOD is 33% lower in the LEAF for the shorter trips. As you take longer trips, the Volt offers the benefits of lower cycling and better assurance of arrival at your destination.

In other words, I think that many people may have chosen a Volt over a LEAF simply because they drive farther each day. As a result, there likely is some selection bias in the statistics on EV driving with the two cars. But the fact still remains: owners of the Volt tend to put more EV miles on their cars than owners of LEAFs do.

And I don't see that as a bad thing at all.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

In other words, I think that many people may have chosen a Volt over a LEAF simply because they drive farther each day. As a result, there likely is some selection bias in the statistics on EV driving with the two cars. But the fact still remains: owners of the Volt tend to put more EV miles on their cars than owners of LEAFs do.

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this fact reported?

If you drive farther each day (>38) in the Volt, you'll engage the ICE. If you go farther each day in a Leaf you stay EV. I don't see how this logic claims the Volt gets more EV mileage.

The only way I can see this working is if there are lots of Leaf owners that don't drive the car much. Empirically I haven't noticed that but would be interesting to see an unbiased study. I've tended to see people who overuse their Leafs and become disappointed that their range isn't greater. If you only use the Leaf <50 miles a day you have no worries even with a degraded battery. But folks tend to drive the car more and run into the range limit and are affected by a degraded battery. For us, a L2 EVSE at home w the 6.6kw charger allows us to run multiple long trips a day if we need to.

 

[surfingslovak]

In other words, I think that many people may have chosen a Volt over a LEAF simply because they drive farther each day. As a result, there likely is some selection bias in the statistics on EV driving with the two cars. But the fact still remains: owners of the Volt tend to put more EV miles on their cars than owners of LEAFs do.

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this fact reported?

I believe there were several reports of total EV miles for each fleet (LEAF/Volt). The last one I looked at was very close and indicated that Volt drivers were getting a comparable amount of EV miles out of their car. Nothing was said about gas miles, but if you add those in, Volt drivers average roughly 30% more miles than LEAF drivers. I'm sorry that I don't have the time to look up the exact numbers for you, but perhaps voltstats.net has more raw data and could help until this is answered more adequately.

 

[evnow]

I'm sorry that I don't have the time to look up the exact numbers for you, but perhaps voltstats.net has more raw data and could help until this is answered more adequately.

Self reported ? Hardly the best way to get a representative sample.

 

[joeaux]

I'm sorry that I don't have the time to look up the exact numbers for you, but perhaps voltstats.net has more raw data and could help until this is answered more adequately.

Self reported ? Hardly the best way to get a representative sample.

Self reported? Don't understand your comment. Voltstats is exactly the same type of info that Carwings gets from the car. The owner doesn't provide it, GM does via OnStar just like Nissan does with Carwings for the Leaf. On another note, each car has it's place. We wanted Volt because we wanted an all electric car most of the time. And in the rare circumstance that we needed to jump in the car and haul butt with no hassles we could. It's the Volt that got my wife and I into the Leaf. We realized that we could use a BEV. We will always have a Leaf and a Volt until better alternatives come along.

 

[RegGuheert]

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this fact reported?

From Voltstats and Carwings. But it is certainly true that Carwings underreports mileage driven, possibly by a large factor. I have no idea if Voltstats is accurate or not.

If you drive farther each day (>38) in the Volt, you'll engage the ICE.

Actually, you only run out of EV range once each charge, not each day. Many people are able to charge mutiple times each day. Plus, some people report driving much more than 38 EV miles with each charge in their Volt. Do we know what the overall average is?

If you go farther each day in a Leaf you stay EV. I don't see how this logic claims the Volt gets more EV mileage.

I just explained it in the text you quoted. Here it is again:

In other words, I think that many people may have chosen a Volt over a LEAF simply because they drive farther each day.

The only way I can see this working is if there are lots of Leaf owners that don't drive the car much.

That's the point!

 

[evnow]

Self reported? Don't understand your comment. Voltstats is exactly the same type of info that Carwings gets from the car.

Then, obviously it is better than self reported. Is there a mechanism in Volt that can prevent stats from being uploaded like in Leaf ?

 

[scottf200]

Self reported? Don't understand your comment. Voltstats is exactly the same type of info that Carwings gets from the car.

Then, obviously it is better than self reported. Is there a mechanism in Volt that can prevent stats from being uploaded like in Leaf ?

As a USA Volt owner you can optionally sign up for OnStar.
Browser interface
VoltStats http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/OwnerMap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is using an official OnStar API and was written by a Volt owner and has 1700 owners signed up.

Chev Volt http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has electric miles for all USA owners that signed up for OnStar. Not all USA owners sign up for OnStar.

MyVolt http://www.myvolt.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the official OnStar interface to data from your Volt.

It gives you details for each of these:

Mobile
OnStar RemoteLink gives you:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gm.onstar.mobile.mylink&hl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Introducing a mobile application that brings unmatched vehicle connectivity into the palm of your hand.
From changing your charge mode to pinpointing the nearest grocery store, OnStar RemoteLink™ offers an amazing level of connection with your Chevrolet Volt. With RemoteLink, you can access real-time data from your Volt and perform specific command—like unlocking doors—remotely. Plus, you can search for points of interest and with a few text or voice commands, have Turn—by—Turn Directions waiting for you when you start your Volt.

Unparalleled control to:
- Start charging your Volt, Change your charge modes, Lock/unlock your doors, Start your Volt remotely, Search for destinations and send Turn—by—Turn directions to your Volt, Contact a dedicated Volt advisor

Unprecedented connectivity to:
- See your real-time electric range, Set charge alerts via both text and email, Check on current battery charge level, Check on current fuel level, View your latest fuel efficiency figures, View real-time tire pressure information, Access account information

Chevrolet Volt DC app gives you:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gm.VoltDC&hl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Description: The Chevrolet Volt Driver Challenge (DC) app, connected to OnStar, lets you track, maximize and compare your Volt’s efficiency.
Keep an eye on your vehicle’s stats while setting goals to boost over-all efficiency for your driving style. As you reach new milestones, you’ll earn badges that you can share on Facebook and Twitter. It’s all part of a community of Chevy Volt owners engaged in friendly competition.
Features:
- Get the most from your Volt, for your driving style, Track your driving behavior and find patterns over time, Set daily goals and earn achievements for beating them, See how your efficiency compares to the VoltDC community, Easily share your achievements and stats

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

not sure its worth discussing stats from either source since they are incomplete. having only talked at any length with 3 Volt Drivers, I cant make any real judgment other than none of the 3 participate in sharing their information and none really have an answer as to why??

but guessing there is a strong core of Volt drivers that go to great lengths to drive electric as much as is possible and they are likely skewing the results a bit.

 

[GRA]

not sure its worth discussing stats from either source since they are incomplete. having only talked at any length with 3 Volt Drivers, I cant make any real judgment other than none of the 3 participate in sharing their information and none really have an answer as to why??

but guessing there is a strong core of Volt drivers that go to great lengths to drive electric as much as is possible and they are likely skewing the results a bit.

Dave, you could say exactly the same thing for the LEAF owners who also own an ICE, but take the LEAF instead and put up with the hassle of en-route charging on trips beyond the un-recharged range, instead of using an ICE. You, for instance on your current commute. Are you still doing a QC coming and going? That's certainly more hassle than the average driver is willing to put up with on a daily basis.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

not sure its worth discussing stats from either source since they are incomplete. having only talked at any length with 3 Volt Drivers, I cant make any real judgment other than none of the 3 participate in sharing their information and none really have an answer as to why??

but guessing there is a strong core of Volt drivers that go to great lengths to drive electric as much as is possible and they are likely skewing the results a bit.

Dave, you could say exactly the same thing for the LEAF owners who also own an ICE, but take the LEAF instead and put up with the hassle of en-route charging on trips beyond the un-recharged range, instead of using an ICE. You, for instance on your current commute. Are you still doing a QC coming and going? That's certainly more hassle than the average driver is willing to put up with on a daily basis.

i dont need a charge on my "normal" commute but i essentially work on the road which means combination of EV, gas and company vehicle. My charging on the road is merely luck (like Walgreens which we do several) or unexpected things that pop up which almost always means QC but one is located 6 miles South of me (job takes me South about 10% of the time) and the other is located 10 miles North of my office which is 25 miles from my house.

i usually opt to park at office, take company vehicle but that is not always an option (we just got rid of one and we were pretty much already short at least one vehicle when that happened) so if going it alone (about 25% of the time) i do LEAF. otherwise its gas (about 5-10% of the time) or company vehicle (the rest)

So i dont have to charge normally. What I have been doing lately is simply driving slower (about 5-7 mph less) to extend range and insure I can get home with enough left over for minor side trips and whatnot

but the real thing is that any less range than what i have now would go to gas. I exceed the Volts EV range easily just about everyday so my gas bill would not be insignificant. The SO's commute "could" do the same. She now has Blinks at work so could pay to recharge daily if using a Volt but as it stands, she makes it in the LEAF easily (62 miles RT)

 

[Deleted member 9549]

As a USA Volt owner you can optionally sign up for OnStar.

Wow, long post. What does this have to do with the topic at hand other than marketing.

Carwings lets you do things remotely as well. There's a carwings app and 3rd party apps. Should I list each one with a list of features?

Leaf owners can opt out of carwings. Also note that the 2013s is not equipped with carwings and would therefore not be counted.

When looking at stats also have to look at the number of vehicles reporting to come up with an average. Volt sales in the US had been higher than the Leaf until this year. I haven't checked I out the links yet to see if there's a good comparison.

 

[RegGuheert]

I often lurk over on Airliners.net and I have seen Chevy Volt ads there pretty much every time I have stopped by to read the forums for the past month or so. But I have to admit, one of the two ads just doesn't make any sense to me. It says simply: "Go a total of up to 380 miles on a full tank of gas." Every time I see that add, I find myself wondering "What market segment are they going after here?" Alas, I always come up blank! I'm sorry, but I think they missed the mark with that one. But I still see it often!

The other one there is much more interesting: "Average 900 miles between fill-ups by charging regularly."

Just wondering: Did anyone here run out and purchase a Volt in order to drive 380 miles on a tank of gas?

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Looking on voltstats.net I found a chart that shows the average EV miles per vehicle at a little over 30 miles/day for the Volt. I can't find an equivalent on Carwings. I can only see my stats. For me, we're averaging 45 miles/day. We usually do more like 60 but there are some days we don't drive at all.

On voltstats.net, select 'monthly totals' tab, graph type 'EV miles PVDD'.

Is there a view for Carwings that shows Leaf averages or some other site?

A google search found an article (who's conclusion I don't agree with) where it says Nissan said Leaf owners average 37 miles/day. This is back in 2011.

 

[surfingslovak]

Is there a view for Carwings that shows Leaf averages or some other site?

Nissan reported total fleet miles when they celebrated the 50,000 LEAFs sold milestone. I believe that this were worldwide stats, and not just the US. It would be great if something like voltstats existed in the LEAF community.

 

[scottf200]

Nissan reported total fleet miles when they celebrated the 50,000 LEAFs sold milestone. I believe that this were worldwide stats, and not just the US. It would be great if something like voltstats existed in the LEAF community.

This is my post from that thread Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:23 pm http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; :
Go to the above thread to see the discussion.

Great numbers for both. Nice.

Car  / #Sold  / EV miles     / EV miles per car
LEAF / 50000* / 161,000,000* / 3220
Volt / 40250  / 135,000,000  / 3354*
* = higher number of the two

Volt EV miles from: http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

via kdawg and data from http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dm33, FYI, since you never have anything constructive to say I added you to the my forums ignore list and thus I do not see your post anymore.