First day with my Leaf, first low battery warning

[DaveEV]

@madbrain - here's an option to get L2 charging without much long-term expense.

1. Find 2 dedicated or lightly used 15A (20A preferred) outlets in your garage on separate breakers/legs.
2. Get the Rev1 EVSE upgrade for $239 (unless you found 2 otherwise unused 20A circuits in which case you can spring for the Rev2 if you want).
3. Get a Quick 220 for $210.

The Quick 220 will let you turn 2 120V outlets into a single 240V outlet that you can plug the EVSE upgrade in to. If you have to use an extension cord, use the shortest 12AWG that reaches.

After your permanent EVSE is installed, you shouldn't have any trouble selling your Quick 220 or EVSE upgrade for 50-70% what you paid new for them if not more.

 

[madbrain]

cwerdna,

As for the leasing part, I'm sure you can find someone in the Bay Area who's willing to swap your upgraded one for a stock one. Also, per evseupgrade.com:

I am leasing my LEAF, and am worried I might be penalized if I turn my car in with the upgraded EVSE.
At the end of your lease we will be happy to swap you for a non-upgraded unit for free. (you cover shipping) I'm sure any other LEAF owner with an original unit would also be happy to swap you as well. In a pinch, you could simply cut the molded L6-20 connector off and install a standard screw-on plug just like the EVSE is originally shipped with, which you can purchase at any hardware store. Another option is to simply buy an additional already upgraded unit from us and keep your original unit in the trunk.

Thanks, that is good to know. I asked my electrician today for a quote for the wiring of the garage on the closest side for a dryer outlet. He would also have to install a subpanel though, because there is only one breaker space left on the main panel. If he didn't put the subpanel in, then there would be no way for Blink to come in later and add their L 2...

Woah, re: your speeds in the Prius, you were hitting the max speed on your 07. :shock: I don't think I've even tried taking mine to even 90 mph. I don't dare go that fast on I-5 even w/radar and laser detector. You can get nailed w/laser (I've gotten real laser detections elsewhere before) and I've also seem cops hiding under overpasses or on on-ramps.

Yes, I like to push the cars once in a while. Really rarely but it has to be done The 2001 Prius going at 100 was a bit scary to drive at that speed stability wise. 2007 at 110 was actually better.
I have gotten my share of tickets though, and have not done that in years.

I did take the Leaf to 90 during the test drive, though, and it was extremely nice and stable.

Re: firmware, maybe http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is it?

Thanks again.

 

[madbrain]

davewill,

Or do you mean the average number that's written out in digits above that scale ?
If so, you would only see that after resetting the stats first and immediately going downhill, right ? ...

Yes, I mean the digits, and you would only see it if you reset at the top of a hill and drove down. Tony's observation that the 2012 will display >8.0 on the dash is news to me. Suggests that either they fixed it, or the dash never did truncate the data internally, and the GPS is whole reason for the difference. It's academic anyway. The main thing is the the center console is usually 0.1mpk or so lower.

OK. I reset every single thing on the car last night.
Today I tried to setup the Homelink but after a few minutes stumped because I was missing the handheld transmitter, sigh. Have no idea where I put it. My Prius was programmed a long time ago.
But during that time the car was on and consumed battery even though it was not driving. The GOM while parked went from 73 to 71 ... Car was unplugged at that time.
There was still no number on the miles/kWh scale either on the dashboard or on the screen.

Then I drove downhill, the real-time miles/kWh on the scale and on the screen were both at the max (8) but the average displayed started only at 1.5 !
By the time I was at the bottom of the hill (0.5 mile) the dash said something like 3.5 and the LCD 7.1 . Huge difference.
Obviously there is some major methodology difference between the two.

At the end of my 13 mile commute today, driving 65 on cruise control on the freeway, the LCD was at 4.7 and dash at 4.1 .
Still much more than 0.1 .

I think it may be that the meter on the dash accounts for all energy spent in the car but the one on the LCD only for the energy driving the wheels. Not sure if that makes any sense.
But having the car parked and turned on seemed to affect the meter on the dash much more than it did the meter on the LCD ...

 

[madbrain]

I concur, and should you ever get your EVSE upgraded, I will loan you an Avcon adapter

Looks like even that is not a sure guarantee of getting a charge, today someone had a car hooked up to this Avcon charger with an adapter. I'm not sure which one, there were about 8 plug-in cars parked near the chargers. Only 4 are dedicated EV spots. All chargers and outlets were in use except the Magna charge.
I'm getting a little upset with all those PIP and Volt getting charged as they have range extenders but my Leaf doesn't.

At least today I started from a full battery at home. But I budgeted my solar system only for 6 kWh/day charging and right now I'm doing closer to 16 kWh/day .. Maybe I should have gone with 400 amp main panel right away to put even more solar panels...

 

[surfingslovak]

Looks like even that is not a sure guarantee of getting a charge, today someone had a car hooked up to this Avcon charger with an adapter. I'm not sure which one, there were about 8 plug-in cars parked near the chargers. Only 4 are dedicated EV spots. All chargers and outlets were in use except the Magna charge.

Hmm, it sounds like too much well-informed competition. Usually an Avcon adapter translates to a guaranteed charging opportunity, there are very few of them out there. The adapter helped me early last year, when the new J1772 stations were few and in-between.

I'm getting a little upset with all those PIP and Volt getting charged as they have range extenders but my Leaf doesn't.

Welcome to the EV world. Personally, I really appreciate all these plugin hybrids, but they will really stretch our L2 charging infrastructure. I was always skeptical of quick charging, but it looks like the killer solution for pure EVs. Toyota will have little incentive to put a CHAdeMO or SAE receptacle on their hybrids, which means that we will have all the quick charging stations to ourselves. If there were only more of them!

At least today I started from a full battery at home. But I budgeted my solar system only for 6 kWh/day charging and right now I'm doing closer to 16 kWh/day .. Maybe I should have gone with 400 amp main panel right away to put even more solar panels...

You might want to look into the Quick 220 solution drees suggested above. You can even build one yourself if cost was an issue. I have friends that are using it in their garage. The upgraded EVSE is very versatile, and it should be possible for you to sell it for $100 to $200 and take a new unmodified Panasonic EVSE from another Leafer when your lease is due.

 

[madbrain]

drees,

@madbrain - here's an option to get L2 charging without much long-term expense.

1. Find 2 dedicated or lightly used 15A (20A preferred) outlets in your garage on separate breakers/legs.

Thanks, this will be the hard part. I don't think I got any 20A outlets anywhere, only 15A.
There may be some on different breakers in the garage, but I don't know if the circuits are dedicated or not, I will have to play with the breakers to ind out.
I do have a freezer in the garage though. It's a recent energy star and not using much, but still wouldn't want the breaker to trip and food to go bad.

2. Get the Rev1 EVSE upgrade for $239 (unless you found 2 otherwise unused 20A circuits in which case you can spring for the Rev2 if you want).
3. Get a Quick 220 for $210.

Thanks for the info, more options to consider.

 

[madbrain]

I just got off the phone with PG&E to ask about getting the triphase 480V power to my house. They said it can definitely be done, and wanted to take my application over the phone for it, but I wasn't ready. Based on what they said the cost on their side would be between $1000 - $5000 . Not sure what my electrician would charge for changing the panel but I'm sure it would be substantial.
I hope I could rent a Quickcharge CHAdeMO charger for less than the price of the car
Maybe I should ask Blink if they can upgrade me to a free L3 charger instead of L2, lol ...

 

[davewill]

... Thanks, that is good to know. I asked my electrician today for a quote for the wiring of the garage on the closest side for a dryer outlet. He would also have to install a subpanel though, because there is only one breaker space left on the main panel. If he didn't put the subpanel in, then there would be no way for Blink to come in later and add their L 2...

Might not be a bad idea. Look for the Blink contractor to charge a good bit more than one you hire yourself. My $1200 install allowance just covered running a conduit from my panel (on the outside of the garage wall) about 18ft. on the interior wall to where the EVSE was mounted. It could save quite a bit to have the subpanel run now, and let the Blink contractor just run the circuit from the new subpanel.

 

[surfingslovak]

Maybe I should ask Blink if they can upgrade me to a free L3 charger instead of L2, lol ...

Hey, maybe Blink will grace you with a free L3 charger. It even comes with an embedded flat-screen TV. Since you are with PG&E, the only downside would be demand charges. Insurance likely won't be cheap either. Tony would likely know more about this than most of us.

 

[madbrain]

... Thanks, that is good to know. I asked my electrician today for a quote for the wiring of the garage on the closest side for a dryer outlet. He would also have to install a subpanel though, because there is only one breaker space left on the main panel. If he didn't put the subpanel in, then there would be no way for Blink to come in later and add their L 2...

Might not be a bad idea. Look for the Blink contractor to charge a good bit more than one you hire yourself. My $1200 install allowance just covered running a conduit from my panel (on the outside of the garage wall) about 18ft. on the interior wall to where the EVSE was mounted. It could save quite a bit to have the subpanel run now, and let the Blink contractor just run the circuit from the new subpanel.

Yeah, I have read some horror stories about the overcharges from the Blink contractor. It would be a shame to wait 6 weeks for them, and then find out that I will still have to pay a lot due to the 80' conduit from the main panel. I will see how much that intermediate run will cost to get the subpanel and dryer outlet on the right side of the garage.
I think San Jose has permit fees for EV chargers that may not apply to dryer outlet so perhaps this is the way to go.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Maybe I should ask Blink if they can upgrade me to a free L3 charger instead of L2, lol ...

Hey, maybe Blink will grace you with a free L3 charger. It even comes with an embedded flat-screen TV. Since you are with PG&E, the only downside would be demand charges. Insurance likely won't be cheap either. Tony would likely know more about this than most of us.

No demand fee with schedule "A" at PG&E. Also, residential doesn't have demand fees (yet).

 

[madbrain]

Maybe I should ask Blink if they can upgrade me to a free L3 charger instead of L2, lol ...

Hey, maybe Blink will grace you with a free L3 charger. It even comes with an embedded flat-screen TV. Since you are with PG&E, the only downside would be demand charges. Insurance likely won't be cheap either. Tony would likely know more about this than most of us.

No demand fee with schedule "A" at PG&E. Also, residential doesn't have demand fees (yet).

Yes, they told me the residential rate would be exactly the same with the 480V service.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, they told me the residential rate would be exactly the same with the 480V service.

Wow. How much would the meter cost per month (it's $5.30 per month, I think, here in SDG&E-land with a residential meter).

You are definitely in a unique position for pulling a full 55kW from the grid for next to nothing (besides the actual kWh's).

 

[madbrain]

Yes, they told me the residential rate would be exactly the same with the 480V service.

Wow. How much would the meter cost per month (it's $5.30 per month, I think, here in SDG&E-land with a residential meter).

You are definitely in a unique position for pulling a full 55kW from the grid for next to nothing (besides the actual kWh's).

They said they would replace the meter, but they didn't mention anything about a separate charge for the 480V meter. I asked if they had 480V SmartMeters, and they said yes. Nothing was mentioned about extra meter fees.

I have been paying extra meter fees for the last 2 years ever since I put in my solar system and have been netmetered with the E-6 TOU schedule.

PG&E actually physically removed the SmartMeter from my house to put in a StupidMeter (TM) . The only reason being that their SmartMeter billing system couldn't handle negative killowatt number ! So, they have been sending a meter reader ever since, and charging me daily meter fees for it.

PG&E finally fixed their billing system, and are upgrading those solar customers who want them - such as myself - to SmartMeters . I made the request a month ago and got a letter last week that they would upgrade my meter soon. The person I talked to today at PG&E about the 480V service also said the meter upgrade was supposed to happen within a week of the letter, so I'm expecting any day now to come home and find a SmartMeter, finally. And this should save me about half of the fees I'm paying for electrical service - my flat fees for E-6 TOU service should go down from about $12 down to $5/month - as PG&E will no longer send someone to physically read my meter every month.

My understanding is that if and when I switch to 480V, there will be one-time costs only, but nothing recurring.

Oh, I drove another 54 miles on the Leaf today, got home with 4 bars. I had a very late dinner with a friend, just came back. I charged the Leaf both at home and work on L1 but it never got to 100%, L1 is just too slow. Tomorrow I will attempt the 60 mile commute with the Leaf. The car will be about an hour short of full charge by the time I leave. Coworkers told me there is an L3 charger about 1 mile from the office I'm going to, so I'm not too worried about the ability to make it, I just hope it's free.

 

[cwerdna]

Coworkers told me there is an L3 charger about 1 mile from the office I'm going to, so I'm not too worried about the ability to make it, I just hope it's free.

You'd better hope it's working.

OTOH, I don't know of a definitive Bay Area QC list, but these might help:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=200864#p200864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=203636#p203636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=236968#p236968" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[madbrain]

Coworkers told me there is an L3 charger about 1 mile from the office I'm going to, so I'm not too worried about the ability to make it, I just hope it's free.

You'd better hope it's working.

OTOH, I don't know of a definitive Bay Area QC list, but these might help:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=200864#p200864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=203636#p203636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=236968#p236968" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, it's one on that list. I am not just hoping it's working, but also available.

I should have clarified that this is 60 mile roundtrip commute, not one way . Actually 65 miles total, mostly freeway. But I will be making stops at two different offices. I can either charge at the QC half-way, or on L1 on the way back at the second office. I will then have my regular 13 mile commute back home.

It should be doable without the QC, especially since I don't have the HOV decals yet, I may be stuck in traffic at low speeds at least half of the way.

 

[madbrain]

Maybe I should ask Blink if they can upgrade me to a free L3 charger instead of L2, lol ...

Hey, maybe Blink will grace you with a free L3 charger. It even comes with an embedded flat-screen TV.

Not sure if you were being serious about the Blink charger having an embedded flat-screen TV.
I actually sent an email to Blink asking about free L3. They replied after hours, no dice. Well, it was a nice try.

 

[jon]

I got my blue 2012 SL on saturday. Trickled charged it to 100% . I had a number of errands to run on sunday. [ ... ]

I was planning to start a 36 months lease of a LEAF this week. After reading some of this thread, I think I am going to wait for the 2013 model.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I got my blue 2012 SL on saturday. Trickled charged it to 100% . I had a number of errands to run on sunday. [ ... ]

I was planning to start a 36 months lease of a LEAF this week. After reading some of this thread, I think I am going to wait for the 2013 model.

Really? Why? The OP was talking about L1 "trickle" charging (120 Volts, 12 Amps) being slow, which it is. But a 2012 LEAF can charge at 240 Volts, 16 Amps and that takes only a few hours for a typical charge or six to seven hours for a charge from very low to 100%. For most people that isn't a big deal since charging happens overnight.

It is true that the 2013 model LEAF will reportedly have an optional 6.6 kW charger, about twice as fast as the current LEAF (probably 240 Volts, 32 Amps). That would be useful if charging at L2 while away from home. But it will have little advantage for overnight home charging for most people. The 2013 LEAF won't charge any faster at 120 Volts than the 2012 LEAF.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Actually 65 miles total, mostly freeway. But I will be making stops at two different offices. I can either charge at the QC half-way, or on L1 on the way back at the second office. I will then have my regular 13 mile commute back home.

It should be doable without the QC, especially since I don't have the HOV decals yet, I may be stuck in traffic at low speeds at least half of the way.

Your trip is doable without ANY charging (with a new car, no battery degradation, no seriously cold weather), which is one of the things you'll learn. If you can get a charge, that's great. But I would certainly plan that trip with no charge (and limit speed to 55-60mph).