Extra Wheel for Rotating Tires

[akohekohe]

On my previous car I rotated the tires by using the spare. That is I used the jack that came with the car to jack up a wheel, replace the wheel with the spare, then let the wheel down, jack up another wheel, remove that wheel and replace it with the previously removed wheel, etc. using the correct rotation pattern (since my previous car, a VW Golf had a normal spare I just included that in the rotation). Alas the Leaf has no spare. I figured instead of buying an extra wheel and tire I could just get a used one from a junk yard. If I go that route what wheel/tire would work for this purpose? I just need it to hold the car up while swapping the wheel.

 

[TonyWilliams]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3184&p=75054&hilit=Wheel+offset#p75054

 

[DaveEV]

Get some jack stands and a floor jack... With 4 jack stands you can get the whole car off the ground and it speeds up tire rotations a lot. Use jack stand pads (buy some rubber/urethane ones) or make you own from blocks of wood to avoid damaging the jack points.

 

[aqn]

On my previous car I rotated the tires by using the spare. That is I used the jack that came with the car to jack up a wheel, replace the wheel with the spare, then let the wheel down, jack up another wheel, remove that wheel and replace it with the previously removed wheel, etc. using the correct rotation pattern (since my previous car, a VW Golf had a normal spare I just included that in the rotation). Alas the Leaf has no spare. I figured instead of buying an extra wheel and tire I could just get a used one from a junk yard. If I go that route what wheel/tire would work for this purpose? I just need it to hold the car up while swapping the wheel.

One alternative, which I did all the time when changing tires on my GTI at the autocross, is to jack the car up (at the front jack point) high enough to get both wheels off the ground. Modern unibody cars are easily stiff enough to permit doing this. The LEAF is not so heavy as to make this not doable. Also, the 50/50 weight distribution also helps.

Fortunately, the LEAF's Bridgestone Ecopia's warranty of 65K miles means that one doesn't need to do this very often!

 

[jonfspencer]

This is all wonderful, but once you look under the Leaf, you will note that there are no obvious locations to use a jack stand. I would much prefer to hear from someone who has actually done this.

 

[dgpcolorado]

This is all wonderful, but once you look under the Leaf, you will note that there are no obvious locations to use a jack stand. I would much prefer to hear from someone who has actually done this.

The jack points on a LEAF are marked by notches in the sill and are quite easy to spot. An OEM jack has a groove that fits over the sill for lifting at that point.

You could make jack blocks to fit on the jack stands and support the car there. But, no, I don't use jack stands so I haven't done it this way.

 

[downeykp]

I just finished rotating tires with two jack stands and a floor jack. Just forward and to the inside of both front wheels there is a large bolt that I believe supports the sub-frame on the front of the car. I put jack right under bolt and lift. I then put jack stand on the jack support behind the front wheels.
After both front wheels are supported with jack stands I take the floor jack and center it at the rear of the car on the support member that goes across the car side to side then jack. All tires are off of the ground and ready for rotation.
While off I check for nails or screws or whatever before putting them back on. Don't forget to torque wheels when done.

This is all wonderful, but once you look under the Leaf, you will note that there are no obvious locations to use a jack stand. I would much prefer to hear from someone who has actually done this.

 

[garsh]

When rotating tires, I use a jack and a single jack stand.

Lift one corner and place the jack stand there. Remove the wheel and go around in your rotation replacing wheels. The last one goes where the jack stand is.

 

[donald]

Modern recommendations are, AFAIK, that you should, and should only need to, swap front to rear on one side at a time.

The OP's process would inevitably lead to left-right swapping, which I do not think is advisable with modern tyres. The circular rotation that used to be suggested is, I believe, now no longer recommended at all.

Even if a tyre is bi-directional, running a tyre in the opposite direction to the way it has been running for a while can increase premature wear and promote stability issues because of the way the ply shifts and wear slightly with the tread...

... or, at least, so I have read on tyre manufacturer's guidance.

There should be no reason you get imbalanced left-to-right wear, and if you do, then go get your wheel alignment sorted.

The other issue is that with ABS and other stability systems, rotating a well worn front R, say, onto the back with an unworn tyre on the same axle, resulting in a differential of a couple of mm between L and R, may well mean the system no longer functions properly. My last Subaru, with VDC, had exactly this advise in the notes and putting differentially worn tyres L-to-R was excluded.

As mentioned above, I would be a little surprised if the car cannot be fully jacked on one side with the VMs own jack. It's not a big car and sometimes the smaller cars only, even, have one jacking point and are intended to be jacked up in exactly this manner.

It's another good argument to have a separate set of winter tyres for cars, because then you can easily inspect and rotate tyres each year simply as part of the process of removing and refitting the set.

 

[DaveEV]

When rotating tires, I use a jack and a single jack stand.

Lift one corner and place the jack stand there. Remove the wheel and go around in your rotation replacing wheels. The last one goes where the jack stand is.

Right, but the question is where do you lift the car to allow placing the jackstand under the lift points?
I've used downeykp's suggestion in the front before to lift the car (place jack under big bolt behind rear A-arm bolt). In the rear he suggests jacking up the car using the torsion beam, but I am not sure that would be recommended. I have lifted by placing a block of wood under the rear spring perch and lifting there. In all my previous cars each car had a central lifting point on the front and rear for lifting up the car to get jackstands underneath which makes things easy.

Modern recommendations are, AFAIK, that you should, and should only need to, swap front to rear on one side at a time.

The OP's process would inevitably lead to left-right swapping, which I do not think is advisable with modern tyres. The circular rotation that used to be suggested is, I believe, now no longer recommended at all.

There are two patterns of rotation that are recommended for FWD vehicles:

1. Front-back rotation - simply swap front/rear tires on the same side.
2. Forward cross - front tires moved to rear, rear tires moved to opposite front.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Switching rotating direction on tires is not an issue with modern tires, unless of course they are tires with a directional tread pattern.

 

[donald]

Switching rotating direction on tires is not an issue with modern tires, unless of course they are tires with a directional tread pattern.

Well, I can't say I've ever heard of a direct problem, but I've driven a few cars with very peculiar handling that has been remedied with new tyres, and never had a problem rotating F-B. I can't see why you would want to swap L-R on a correctly set-up chassis, but each to his own....

 

[DaveEV]

I can't see why you would want to swap L-R on a correctly set-up chassis, but each to his own....

Very often you will see more wear on one side of the car than the other due to one taking more turns in one direction than the other.

 

[donald]

Very often you will see more wear on one side of the car than the other due to one taking more turns in one direction than the other.

That's a new one on me.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Very often you will see more wear on one side of the car than the other due to one taking more turns in one direction than the other.

I think that one might see more wear on the right side (in the USA) because that part of the road tends to be rougher than the left side. But, perhaps, that's a rural thing (no curbs/sidewalks and the like). The sand and gravel tend to get kicked to the side of the road and the right tires get more of it.

 

[DaveEV]

I see more wear on my left tires (especially front-left) due to the number of freeway clover leaf on-ramps and the fact that you can usually take right-hand turns without stopping where you will usually stop for left-hand turns.

 

[garsh]

Right, but the question is where do you lift the car to allow placing the jackstand under the lift points?

I jack the car up at the lift points. I put the jack stand under the front control arm mounts, with a 1/2" piece of wood in between.

 

[aqn]

When rotating tires, I use a jack and a single jack stand.

Right, but the question is where do you lift the car to allow placing the jackstand under the lift points?

Why do you need to use any jack stand at all to rotate tires? I just jack up the LEAF at the front jack point up high enough to get both front and rear wheels off of the ground.

 

[garsh]

Why do you need to use any jack stand at all to rotate tires? I just jack up the LEAF at the front jack point up high enough to get both front and rear wheels off of the ground.

How does that let you cross the wheels to the other side?

 

[aqn]

Why do you need to use any jack stand at all to rotate tires? I just jack up the LEAF at the front jack point up high enough to get both front and rear wheels off of the ground.

How does that let you cross the wheels to the other side?

I don't. If one swap wheels/tires from side to side then jack stands would be in order.

IMO, FWD cars' rear wheels/tires are there just to hold up the car's ass. They don't do much: not subjected to much acceleration force, braking force, or turning force (56% of vehicle weight on the front tires for the LEAF, commonly 65+% for FWD cars). IMO, because rear tires are subjected to so much less wear than the fronts, rotation is simply to swap any front tire to any rear tire. Therefore, I do it the quick/easy way: swapping tires of the same side.