Ever seen outlet fail due to repetitive use w/L1 cordset?

[MarianaP]

This is aimed at folks who are using the L1 cordset for charging with a regular 120V/15 AMP outlet in their garages.

I've read/heard this argument a couple of times: a standard electrical receptacle isn’t designed for EV drivers to be plugging in and out several times a day; it is only UL tested to 50 cycles (link below). The presumption is that after a while, the outlet will fail.

Indeed, Leviton specifically states that its Evr-Green Base Level 1 GFCI outlet "can accommodate the repetitive insertions experienced with plug-in vehicle charging" (link also below). The presumption here is that their product would NOT fail under such repetitive use.

So, my question: If you routinely use a garden-variety outlet in your garage for charging, and you plug and unplug your cordset frequently, have you ever had to replace the outlet itself due to failure?

And if you have been using a garden-variety outlet this way and it has NOT failed:

How long have you been using it like this? Years, months?
How often do you plug/unplug? 3x/week? 5x/week? 7x/week?

Thanks,

Mariana

http://chargedevs.com/features/telefonix-bets-on-level-1-commercial-charging-stations/

http://store.leviton.com/Receptacle-Level-charging-Sensor-Controlled/dp/B00700OBE4

 

[Reddy]

Mariana, my driving distances are fairly short, so I just leave the L1 mounted to the wall next to the receptacle. I can't help much with the number of plug/unplug cycles, but 50 sounds VERY low. I'm sure that I run some of my other electrical devices many more times than that.

Certainly, if you are plugging in more than once a day, that is too much, just leave it. I only put the EVSE in my trunk on longer out-of-town trips, probably no more than 10 or 15 trips total.

All that said, I did replace all receptacles in my 1960's house because they were "sloppy" loose. With the arrival of the Leaf, I replaced one in the garage first with a nice cGFI plug. Then I decided that it wouldn't cost much to do the entire house (unfortunately it was more work than I thought).

 

[eHelmholtz]

...How long have you been using it like this? Years, months?
How often do you plug/unplug? 3x/week? 5x/week? 7x/week?

My wife has been doing this for the last 10 months; she plugs and unplugs 3-5 times a week. She uses a portable OpenEVSE charging at 120V/12A (like the stock L1).

 

[LeftieBiker]

It hasn't been quite long enough for this problem to be showing up on a widespread basis, but there have been outlet fires that may have been the result of loose plug fits.

 

[gbarry42]

This person had to replace the socket and the plug: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14889" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, watch out for it getting looser, or getting hotter than normal. Once it gets hot, it "cooks" the connection and causes it to get hotter still. I actually did use the 50-year old socket in my garage, but only about 8 times before I sold the house. The plug did get warm. If I were to do this regularly, I would put in a new socket. That's cheap insurance, and these things are easy to change for anyone with a passing knowledge of electrical work.

 

[TimLee]

Took three months for the person with the $10,000 fire.
No idea how many plug and unplug cycles, and the failure might not have been the plug or receptacle, it might have been cable damage from staples when the wiring was installed.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ggodman]

I suspect the short cord is the problem in most cases, all that weight hanging from a standard plug causes problems after a while, make sure you support the giant heavy box and I suspect you will not have any problems.

 

[jlatl]

When planning on using an L1 charger a lot I would suggest:
1. Start with checking to make sure the plug is tight.
2. Check the outlet for warmth after charging for a while. Purchase of an infrared thermometer is a good idea. (You can find them for less than $20).
3. If you have ANY doubt on the age or quality of the outlet replace it. In fact, it is one of the cheapest insurances you can buy. And don't go for the cheap ones. Buy a good outlet for a couple of bucks more. I like to go to a real electrical supply house to get a quality outlet (avoid the 15A rating ones)
4. If you are open the box look at how the outlet is wired. One sure way to ensure a problem is if the wires are just stabbed in instead of put under the screw terminals. If you find that is how it was wired for god's sake change it. And make sure to check the screw is good and tight. (Of course if you have taken the time to open the box just replace the outlet)
5. Good advice about making sure not to put weight on the plug. Make sure to hang up the EVSE to keep from straining the cord.

Remember, this is not the place to cut corners.

 

[mwalsh]

I had a treadmill that was in use daily (sometimes twice daily), but that would stay "active" (on standby, if you will) if it was left plugged in. Since it was a high power device, it wasn't something you could plug into a switched power strip, so it would be unplugged when not in use. It took over 10 years of daily plugging/unplugging for the outlet to become sufficiently worn that I considered it to be a danger.

FYI...my new treadmill goes from "standby" to "sleep" after 30 minutes of inactivity, so no need to keep unplugging it.

 

[kubel]

Outlets are cheap and really easy to replace. I have seen lots of failed outlets (not due to improper installation), usually the piece of plastic fails just below the ground. I've never seen an outlet fail from EVSE use.

Get a $15 hospital grade receptacle, and you should be fine for a long time.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-W-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B000LEL6I0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400036388&sr=8-1&keywords=hospital+grade+receptacle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GlennD]

Twenty years ago when I purchased my 1976 house I replaced all of the outlets before moving in. In my ignorance I purchased a couple of cheap contractors packs of outlets. Now twenty years later my used a lot outlets need replacement.

It is better to spend more for quality outlets. A 3 dollar outlet is constructed much better than a 79 cent contractor quality unit.

 

[jlatl]

Outlets are cheap and really easy to replace. I have seen lots of failed outlets (not due to improper installation), usually the piece of plastic fails just below the ground. I've never seen an outlet fail from EVSE use.

Get a $15 hospital grade receptacle, and you should be fine for a long time.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-W-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B000LEL6I0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400036388&sr=8-1&keywords=hospital+grade+receptacle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great idea about specifying hospital grade receptacles. I would assume they are pretty good quality.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Outlets are cheap and really easy to replace. I have seen lots of failed outlets (not due to improper installation), usually the piece of plastic fails just below the ground. I've never seen an outlet fail from EVSE use.

Get a $15 hospital grade receptacle, and you should be fine for a long time.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-W-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B000LEL6I0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400036388&sr=8-1&keywords=hospital+grade+receptacle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great idea about specifying hospital grade receptacles. I would assume they are pretty good quality.

They are, I use them in some locations of my home. Many new outlets are very poorly made, like the budget ones at HD.

 

[kolmstead]

There's no good answer to how long an outlet will last. To a large extent, it depends on the quality of the unit installed, and most folks won't know that, since they didn't install the outlet themselves... it came with the house.

Replacing a cheapie with a decent, screw-terminal outlet may not be a complete solution. If you replace one cheapie, there may still be several other daisy-chained cheapies with push-in connections feeding it.

A dedicated outlet, one with no other outlets sharing the circuit, is the proper way to feed an EVSE. But plugging and unplugging from a quality outlet is not easy; the socket is TIGHT! In fact, that's the first thing to notice when you plug in. If the plug slides in easily, the outlet is too worn to use safely.

-karl

 

[jlatl]

There's no good answer to how long an outlet will last. To a large extent, it depends on the quality of the unit installed, and most folks won't know that, since they didn't install the outlet themselves... it came with the house.

Replacing a cheapie with a decent, screw-terminal outlet may not be a complete solution. If you replace one cheapie, there may still be several other daisy-chained cheapies with push-in connections feeding it.

A dedicated outlet, one with no other outlets sharing the circuit, is the proper way to feed an EVSE. But plugging and unplugging from a quality outlet is not easy; the socket is TIGHT! In fact, that's the first thing to notice when you plug in. If the plug slides in easily, the outlet is too worn to use safely.

-karl

Great comment about the possibility that the outlet may not be first on the chain. It may be fed from a previous outlet in the chain that has stab connections. Taking that along with the suggestion for a hospital grade outlet I would revise my list to say:

When planning on using an L1 charger a lot I would suggest the following for generic advice for L1 users:

1. Start with checking to make sure the plug is tight.
2. Check the outlet for warmth after charging for a while. Purchase of an infrared thermometer is a good idea. (You can find them for less than $20).
3. If you have ANY doubt on the age or quality of the outlet replace it. In fact, it is one of the cheapest insurances you can buy. And don't go for the cheap ones. Buy a good outlet for a couple of bucks more. I like to go to a real electrical supply house to get a quality outlet (avoid the 15A rating ones). Look for a Hospital Grade outlet.
4. If you are open the box look at how the outlet is wired. One sure way to ensure a problem is if the wires are just stabbed in instead of put under the screw terminals. If you find that is how it was wired for god's sake change it. And make sure to check the screw is good and tight. (Of course if you have taken the time to open the box just replace the outlet).
5. You need to check to make sure the power does not loop through another outlet before getting to the one you plan to use. It could be that the power goes from the breaker box to another outlet first, and the wires there are just stabbed in (bad connection). You could end up with heat and problems from another outlet you never thought of. Turn off the breaker to the outlet in question and see if the power dies anywhere else. If it does you have 2 problems. First, the power is shared and you might be overloading the circuit with other devices. The second is a possible bad wiring on the other plug(s). That would take some additional work to open those outlet boxes and make sure the wire it good and tight. You would also want to include those outlets in your check for warmth (step 2).
5. Make sure not to put weight on the plug. Make sure to hang up the EVSE to keep from straining the cord.

Remember, this is not the place to cut corners.

 

[mwalsh]

A 3 dollar outlet is constructed much better than a 79 cent contractor quality unit.

True enough. And though you'll sometimes be warned of a problem by a burning electrical smell (if you're lucky), generally you don't know there's an issue until smoke is pouring out of the walls! :shock:

 

[Nubo]

There's no good answer to how long an outlet will last. To a large extent, it depends on the quality of the unit installed, and most folks won't know that, since they didn't install the outlet themselves... it came with the house.

Replacing a cheapie with a decent, screw-terminal outlet may not be a complete solution. If you replace one cheapie, there may still be several other daisy-chained cheapies with push-in connections feeding it.

A dedicated outlet, one with no other outlets sharing the circuit, is the proper way to feed an EVSE. But plugging and unplugging from a quality outlet is not easy; the socket is TIGHT! In fact, that's the first thing to notice when you plug in. If the plug slides in easily, the outlet is too worn to use safely.

-karl

Great comment about the possibility that the outlet may not be first on the chain. It may be fed from a previous outlet in the chain that has stab connections. Taking that along with the suggestion for a hospital grade outlet I would revise my list to say:

When planning on using an L1 charger a lot I would suggest the following for generic advice for L1 users:

1. Start with checking to make sure the plug is tight.
2. Check the outlet for warmth after charging for a while. Purchase of an infrared thermometer is a good idea. (You can find them for less than $20).
3. If you have ANY doubt on the age or quality of the outlet replace it. In fact, it is one of the cheapest insurances you can buy. And don't go for the cheap ones. Buy a good outlet for a couple of bucks more. I like to go to a real electrical supply house to get a quality outlet (avoid the 15A rating ones). Look for a Hospital Grade outlet.
4. If you are open the box look at how the outlet is wired. One sure way to ensure a problem is if the wires are just stabbed in instead of put under the screw terminals. If you find that is how it was wired for god's sake change it. And make sure to check the screw is good and tight. (Of course if you have taken the time to open the box just replace the outlet).
5. You need to check to make sure the power does not loop through another outlet before getting to the one you plan to use. It could be that the power goes from the breaker box to another outlet first, and the wires there are just stabbed in (bad connection). You could end up with heat and problems from another outlet you never thought of. Turn off the breaker to the outlet in question and see if the power dies anywhere else. If it does you have 2 problems. First, the power is shared and you might be overloading the circuit with other devices. The second is a possible bad wiring on the other plug(s). That would take some additional work to open those outlet boxes and make sure the wire it good and tight. You would also want to include those outlets in your check for warmth (step 2).
5. Make sure not to put weight on the plug. Make sure to hang up the EVSE to keep from straining the cord.

Remember, this is not the place to cut corners.

As far as item 3, not sure about code but it seems to me it would be a bad idea to install a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit. The 20A outlet prong configuration could mislead someone into using it for a higher-power device that would be inappropriate on a 15A circuit.

 

[johnrhansen]

Not really sure what you's gain by installing a 20 amp outlet vs a 15. From what I've heard, they are built exactly the same except for the additional horizontal cutout on the neutral prong on the 20s to accommodate 20 amp plugs.

 

[jlatl]

Not really sure what you's gain by installing a 20 amp outlet vs a 15. From what I've heard, they are built exactly the same except for the additional horizontal cutout on the neutral prong on the 20s to accommodate 20 amp plugs.

I guess you are right as long as you are getting a high quality outlet. My thought was that a 20A outlet would probably be designed with a little better capacity. With that I will pull back the recommendation for the 20A outlet but keep the comment on the Hospital Grade outlet.

As for the concern that someone could try to use a 20A plug the only danger would be if someone only put in wiring for 15A and then put in a 20A breaker. If the correct size breaker is in place it would just trip and disappoint the user.

On the other hand, even finding anything with a 20A plug is pretty rare.

 

[johnrhansen]

I think hospital grade is a good idea too for ev charging because the cord is so short on the evse, the receptacle takes a lot of weight. Not only that, but with hospital grade you know what you are getting. But in the rest of the house, hospital grade is overkill. Ive had real good luck with leviton spec grade receptacles. Much better than the el cheapos, but they wont bust your budget like buying 50 hospital grade receptacles will!