EV Parking Space Protocol?

[gasmiser1]

Can anyone who owns an EV or plug-in hybrid share some of your experiences in regards to dedicated electric vehicle parking spaces? Or experienced cheaters using the EV spaces when they don't have an EV or plug-in hybrid?

At our office, I've already found occasionally people using dedicated EV/plug-in hybrid spaces with their regular ICE cars-RUDE! (we have two dedicated spaces registered with "ChargePoint"). This issue needs to be addressed.

I found on www.evchargernews.com an "EV Courtesy Charging Protocol Placard" to be placed on the dashboard for courtesy to other EV owners. It lets people know the times you'll be parking to get a charge, as well as contact info if you need to be reached to move your vehicle.

Also, under CA Vehicle Code section 22511, non-electric vehicles parked in spaces reserved for EVs are subject to fines up to $100 and may be towed at the owner's expense.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I thought we had a thread on this already?

 

[gasmiser1]

I thought we had a thread on this already?

Oops. My bad. please delete my thread.

 

[garygid]

When the space is marked EV, it could be OK for EV parking (not charging),
or reserved strictly for charging, depending upon how it is marked.
And, after the charging is finished, are you just "parking"?

Then, if the space is also marked for Handicapped use: I have
seen one (Ontario, CA Airport) that appears to require EV AND
Handicapped. I have a PhD in Computer Science, and it was not
clear that I (non-handicapped) could use the spot legally, or
if it was OK for EV parking, or just for EV charging only.

Of course, the chargers for the 3 spots were not powered on,
and there was no apparent way to get power turned on.

In any case, I would not have used the "handicapped" spot for fear
of being ticketed (or worse, towed) by some police or security person
that just looked for my Handicapped Plackard ... and found none.

Other EV carging spaces are being make that just have Handicapped
access space around it, but can be used by "non-handicapped" EVs.
But, will that be OBVIOUS to a security guard?

If the signage is not clear, there will be BIG fights when the cars are towed away.
The towing might even damage the EV internals, resulting in BIG repair bills.
Of course, I suspect that a towing company is not responsible for any damage,
even if they caused it, which might even be hard to prove, expecially when
the damage is internal.

Just draging the LEAF backwards out of the parking spot, with all wheels
locked and skidding, and attaching chains (where) to get it on a flatbed
tow truck is bad enough, but the there is the unloading and moving it around
the impound lot. There is even more damage potential is the car is towed
with two wheels on the ground.

The signage needs to be VERY CLEAR to the users, the police,
AND to the tow company truck operators.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Can anyone who owns an EV or plug-in hybrid share some of your experiences in regards to dedicated electric vehicle parking spaces? Or experienced cheaters using the EV spaces when they don't have an EV or plug-in hybrid?

At our office, I've already found occasionally people using dedicated EV/plug-in hybrid spaces with their regular ICE cars-RUDE! (we have two dedicated spaces registered with "ChargePoint"). This issue needs to be addressed.

I found on http://www.evchargernews.com an "EV Courtesy Charging Protocol Placard" to be placed on the dashboard for courtesy to other EV owners. It lets people know the times you'll be parking to get a charge, as well as contact info if you need to be reached to move your vehicle.

Also, under CA Vehicle Code section 22511, non-electric vehicles parked in spaces reserved for EVs are subject to fines up to $100 and may be towed at the owner's expense.

There was already a discussion on this, but MY opinion:

Handicapped parking spaces were fair game for everyone until people realized that you'd be ticketed/towed and that then pain involved wasn't worth the premium space. I will employ the same EV parking rules....park an ICE there, I'll call for a ticket/tow. Eventually, ICE drivers will realize the pain isn't worth blocking an EV from a space reserved for them. :twisted:

 

[LEAFer]

Towing a Tesla Roadster can't normally be done without damage unless you can access the touch-screen and place the car into a special "Tow Mode". The reason is that in the "OFF" state the electric motor and/or gearbox is locked by a paw. In "Tow Mode" state the paw is released, but the wheels are still connected to the motor and gearbox (regen! ), and it is possible to now slowly pull the car onto a flatbed trailer.

I wonder how this will work in the LEAF ?

(Separate thread?)

 

[garygid]

So, some (many?) towing companies do not normally care if
they damage the car.
They are only after the income, the towing and storage fees.

 

[LEAFer]

Who pays for the damage ? The towing company's ? (Since they are the professionals that are supposed to know better?) Yours ? (Comprehensive section) ?

 

[garygid]

I think, in CA, that the towing companies are not liable, due to some special law. Not sure.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

For those in WA State - the Puget Sound Regional Council came up with a model ordinance in relation to charging stations (http://www.psrc.org/transportation/ev/model-guidance/) and I have a few highlights to share from it. I recommend a look through the guidelines part of the document for anyone with any real interest though.


1) All EV parking spots are for EV "Charging" - they are not reserved spots for people with EV cars to park but instead they are for use by vehicles while charging. The model ordinances define charging as being plugged in so you could be fully charged and plugged in and still be fine.

2) Each public location should have at least 1 - fully ADA (Handicapped) compliant parking spot. This doesn't mean the spot is reserved for a handicapped person only or that handicapped drivers without EV's can park there. Instead, it means that one spot should be handicapped accessible and relies on the smartness of EV drivers to choose to use that spot as a last choice when multiple options exist. (under "Accessiblity" in the guidelines part of the report)

3) They came up with a recommended signage - (page 25 of the report shows a small example) - essentially, a sign with red lettering - "P" in a circle crossed out (no Parking symbol) and the words "Except for Electric Vehicle Charging" below it.

good stuff and I think the people that did the work on this encompassed most every concern that I could think of at this stage of the EV rollout.

 

[Timaz]

Here in Phoenix, there are spaces for Hybrids and EV's at Fresh and Easy stores and Banks (Wells Fargo) and more seem to be popping up all the time. There are no chargers in front of these spaces. They are just trying to encourage people to drive lower emission vehicles and give them a little reward for doing so. The carrot and stick approach I guess. I park my Prius in these spaces all the time. I hope more businesses start to do this!

 

[garygid]

In WA, you park, start charging, and go "shopping" for a few hours. So far, so good.

Somebody unplugs your e-fuel line (perhaps uses it to charge their car), and leaves. All the while, it "LOOKS LIKE" you are just an EV that is PARKING, not charging.

How does their "plan" handle that situation?
You get ticketed or towed away?

 

[evnow]

Somebody unplugs your e-fuel line (perhaps uses it to charge their car), and leaves.

That doesn't happen in WA :lol:

 

[garygid]

Nor in Japan.
Probably why the Nissan designers did not provide for such a situation (close and lock the "charge-hatch", leafing only the cord exiting the Leaf).

 

[mwalsh]

In some European countries, disabled placards come with a little clock dial and, under certain circumstances, you're supposed to set the clock to the time you parked and are not allowed to exceed the time limit set for the spot.

I think that's a system that would work for EV vehicles (though I'm sure some would abuse it too) - your placard says something like "I began charging at:" and then you would set the clock on your placard to show what time you began.

 

[daniel]

Part of the difficulty could be addressed by having the charging spots at the far end of the parking lot, rather than at the near end. Handicapped parking needs to be close. Charging spots do not need to be close unless the spot is for charging by handicapped drivers. By having the charging spots at the far end of the lot, drivers of conventional cars would have no reason to park in them. I usually park far from the entrance anyway. I get to stretch my legs and there is slightly less likelihood of scratched doors.

The issue of drivers parking longer than the time needed for charging is still an issue, but I think that EV drivers are more likely to be respectful of other EV drivers than drivers of gas-guzzlers would be.

The whole issue will disappear when battery technology allows an all-day charge and all charging is done at home or over night at a hotel (where you'd pay extra for the spot and the juice).

 

[evnow]

Part of the difficulty could be addressed by having the charging spots at the far end of the parking lot, rather than at the near end. Handicapped parking needs to be close. Charging spots do not need to be close unless the spot is for charging by handicapped drivers. By having the charging spots at the far end of the lot, drivers of conventional cars would have no reason to park in them..

In the PSRC meeting they talked quite a bit about this. I think the guidelines talk about this too.

But the problem is minimum one DA spot. It is obviously more economical to have all the charging spots together. This forces the DA spot to be either far away or all other spots to be close to the entrance ...

 

[garygid]

The placement of the spots should be by cost of getting the e-fuel to the location. The location of existing power should be a major consideration, to keep costs down.

Eventual expansion should be considered.

In many places, at least ONE DA spot is REQUIRED. I am not sure how close to the entrance this "DA" spot needs to be located. As the number of EV spots grows, there are only so many spots that are "close" to the (not necessarily MAIN) "entrance".

Usually, L2 (park-n-charge) should be at end-point locations, while L3 (DC QC) should be at queue-to-charge (charge-n-go) locations, with the "traffic" handled much differently.

 

[smkettner]

Eventually there will be power available at many spots. With a cord that reaches 2 to 6 spaces it soon will not be an issue. JMO.
I can understand the fustration of most of use seeing a couple never used spots up close left over from the EV-1 days.
Once these spots get filled more often it will be less of an issue.

 

[daniel]

A very real problem is that if you cannot count on getting into a spot, you cannot plan on making a trip that requires the opportunity charge. Even with L3 charging at half an hour, who will be willing to plan on a trip where there may be an unknown number of half-hour time slots to wait? It will really only be practical when there are so many charging spots that the likelihood of significant delays is very small.

If I had a 6-hour trip that required two half-hour charges, making the trip 7 hours, I'd do it. But if there was a real chance that I might have to wait two hours to get in to the spot for my half-hour charge, then my trip becomes eleven hours, and I'd take the stinker instead. This means that for me, the EV is for local trips within the car's own range. And that means that I will not be using public charging.