Electric Car Economics: Payback vs. Premium

[mkjayakumar]

Finally. Someone who took the time to investigate and really understand the economics and reasons for buying an electric car. In a sea of articles that mistakenly compares Versa to Leaf and Cruze to Volt, this one stands out as a breath of fresh air.


http://business-news.thestreet.com/...ric-car-economics-payback-vs-premium/11568888

 

[TomT]

Generally a pretty good article though I have a hard time thinking of the current Leaf as a "luxury vehicle..."

Finally. Someone who took the time to investigate and really understand the economics and reasons for buying an electric car. In a sea of articles that mistakenly compares Versa to Leaf and Cruze to Volt, this one stands out as a breath of fresh air.

 

[RegGuheert]

Finally. Someone who took the time to investigate and really understand the economics and reasons for buying an electric car. In a sea of articles that mistakenly compares Versa to Leaf and Cruze to Volt, this one stands out as a breath of fresh air.

http://business-news.thestreet.com/...ric-car-economics-payback-vs-premium/11568888

It's a decent article. Thanks!

One thing that this cost analysis, like my own, have excluded is the cost of getting an EVSE installed and it's ongoing maintenance. That cost will go down over time as the units get cheaper (and better) and as we eventually will already have them in place.

At least some Chevrolet Volts have already gone well beyond 200,000 miles, and none of them has yet required a battery swap.

I'm pretty impressed to hear that! I wonder how many EV-only miles that included.

 

[adric22]

Generally a pretty good article though I have a hard time thinking of the current Leaf as a "luxury vehicle..."

Maybe not.. but it is much better than a Versa.

I've made the same argument for years. When people ask me about payback, I'll explain the numbers to them. "Lets see, my car payment is less than yours (I'm on a lease) and I don't buy any gasoline. How much do you spend per month?" But then I also always explain that I shouldn't need to justify my car. I think it is cool and it is everything I've always wanted. What other reason do I need to buy it? Nobody asks people to financially justify their purchase of a Ford F250 Dually, Hummer, Caddlilac Escalade, Corvette, BMW, etc. So I definitely agree than when it comes to the hybrids and electric vehicles it is really annoying to have people ask me to justify it to them.

 

[ksnogas2112]

@TomT

Generally a pretty good article though I have a hard time thinking of the current Leaf as a "luxury vehicle..."



It's the most luxurious vehicle I've ever had. Since I'm trading in a manual transmission, manual windows, no cd, broken tape deck '02 escort, it's pretty luxurious to me.

:mrgreen:

 

[mkjayakumar]

Its luxurious the way it drives, maybe not the interior.

 

[garsh]

Here's an article that has a different take on the usual economic argument:

Bad Money Advice: Are High(er) MPG Cars Worth the Money?

Basically, consider the cost difference as the principal of an investment, and the yearly savings as the money made on the investment. Figure out the percentage "profit", and see if that's higher or lower than other investments you could be making (including paying off other debt).

 

[eHelmholtz]

Generally a pretty good article though I have a hard time thinking of the current Leaf as a "luxury vehicle..."

I agree - it would be difficult to consider the LEAF a premium luxury car.

 

[kubel]

Why not be fair and compare it to the car we would be driving if we didn't even know the LEAF existed. That's the only way we would get any meaningful cost comparison out of it. Not everyone drives economy cars just for the economic benefits.

 

[coolfilmaker]

One thing that this cost analysis, like my own, have excluded is the cost of getting an EVSE installed and it's ongoing maintenance. That cost will go down over time as the units get cheaper (and better) and as we eventually will already have them in place.

Sounds like he ordered a Model S which does come with a 240 volt mobile EVSE. I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of the 300 mile range Model S owners don't even bother having any extra wiring put in.

Although Tesla's amazing 20 kw permanent EVSE is a mere $1200, it will require 120 amps worth of circuit breakers which for most people will mean getting a new panel and upgraded electrical service to their house. Maybe some people will have the permanent EVSE installed with less power or just get a 240 volt plug installed but I don't think many Model S buyers are into half-assing things.

 

[RegGuheert]

At least some Chevrolet Volts have already gone well beyond 200,000 miles, and none of them has yet required a battery swap.

I'm pretty impressed to hear that! I wonder how many EV-only miles that included.

I Googled that and I don't find anything. Does anyone else think that must be a typo? Surely he meant 20,000 miles...

 

[surfingslovak]

At least some Chevrolet Volts have already gone well beyond 200,000 miles, and none of them has yet required a battery swap.

I Googled that and I don't find anything. Does anyone else think that must be a typo? Surely he meant 20,000 miles...

That's poorly worded, but based on factual information, and not just a typo. GM reportedly simulated 200K miles in their lab, which was mentioned on the forum as well. I would not be surprised if they had a high-mileage test vehicle or two either. The highest mileage across roughly 1,000 owners on voltstats.net is 29,802. Let's just leave it there.

2:58 Bill Wallace
For those of you who don't know, the Volt's battery is warrantied for 8-years/100,000 miles. Engineers at our Global Battery Systems Lab here in Warren (where I'm doing this chat today. It's the largest automotive battery lab in North America.) have tested the Volt's battery packs for more than double that amount of miles. We are confident that the Volt will prove its value well beyond the warranty period.

 

[RegGuheert]

That's poorly worded, but based on factual information, and not just a typo. GM reportedly simulated 200K miles in their lab, which was mentioned on the forum as well. I would not be surprised if they had a high-mileage test vehicle or two either. The highest mileage across roughly 1,000 owners on voltstats.net is 29,802. Let's just leave it there.

Cool! Thanks! Still pretty impressive!

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

What, no comments on the global warming denial?

 

[Volt3939]

What, no comments on the global warming denial?

Or bashing the President? It's telling that there are no comments allowed...

 

[coolfilmaker]

What, no comments on the global warming denial?

Or bashing the President? It's telling that there are no comments allowed...

We take what we can get. Eventually they'll die out.

 

[TomT]

I drove a BMW 335I 6 speed before the Leaf. A car that was clearly more expensive to buy and operate but which was always an absolute joy to drive. It never failed to make me smile! The Leaf looks and drives and has quality like a Yugo in comparison... :lol:

Why not be fair and compare it to the car we would be driving if we didn't even know the LEAF existed. That's the only way we would get any meaningful cost comparison out of it. Not everyone drives economy cars just for the economic benefits.

 

[Chieftan68]

Hmm. BMWs are supposed to be good cars but they don't have great reliability according to ConsumerReports. Too early, of course, for the Leaf. But the BMW maintenance costs are also very high.

As an earlier author wrote, why isn't anybody comparing why you should buy a BMW instead of a Leaf? Initial cost, depreciation, mpg justification, range, luxury, cost of maintenance, blah, blah, blah.

I've driven several "luxury" cars. Not impressed.

To each his own. The Leaf is the finest car I've ever owned. Others may have purchased must nicer. But then, that brings us full circle to justification for an automobile purchase. That question/debate never ends.

 

[ztanos]

Hmm. BMWs are supposed to be good cars but they don't have great reliability according to ConsumerReports. Too early, of course, for the Leaf. But the BMW maintenance costs are also very high.

As an earlier author wrote, why isn't anybody comparing why you should buy a BMW instead of a Leaf? Initial cost, depreciation, mpg justification, range, luxury, cost of maintenance, blah, blah, blah.

I've driven several "luxury" cars. Not impressed.

To each his own. The Leaf is the finest car I've ever owned. Others may have purchased must nicer. But then, that brings us full circle to justification for an automobile purchase. That question/debate never ends.

I hope you don't listen to Consumer Reports about everything. If you did you wouldn't be driving the LEAF :shock: !!!

 

[adric22]

Why not be fair and compare it to the car we would be driving if we didn't even know the LEAF existed. That's the only way we would get any meaningful cost comparison out of it. Not everyone drives economy cars just for the economic benefits.

That is a good point. Obviously if there were no plug-in vehicles available I'd probably be driving a Prius or a Prius C. Of course my reasons for buying such a vehicle is mostly because I like high-tech cars with digital displays, quiet engines, and get good fuel economy. The Leaf is all of those things.

On a scale of pure economics, I'd probably be better off with the car I traded in. It was a blue 2008 Prius that I bought used for $12,000. I tend to always buy used cars, because I don't like taking such a hit on the depreciation the first year or two. But as there was no such thing as a used Leaf or Volt, I really had no choice unless I wanted to wait another few years.