Daimler delays launch of 2012 Smart ForTwo EV

[ChargedEVsMag]

German automaker Daimler told Automotive News Europe on Tuesday that the launch of its third-generation Smart ForTwo EV will be delayed by about three months... http://www.chargedevs.com/content/news-wire/post/daimler-delays-launch-2012-smart-fortwo-ev" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

So, what car am I driving around San Diego with Car2go ?

 

[mwalsh]

So, what car am I driving around San Diego with Car2go ?

Gen2

 

[cwerdna]

So, what car am I driving around San Diego with Car2go ?

Gen2

So, it's one of these extremely sluggish cars w/a max speed of 62.5 mph?

http://priuschat.com/forums/ev-electric-vehicle-discussion/93863-smart-fortwo-electric-drive-passion-very-slow.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mwalsh]

So, it's one of these extremely sluggish cars w/a max speed of 62.5 mph?

http://priuschat.com/forums/ev-electric-vehicle-discussion/93863-smart-fortwo-electric-drive-passion-very-slow.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly. The Gen3 promises better acceleration and a 75mph top speed.

 

[TonyWilliams]

So, what car am I driving around San Diego with Car2go ?

Gen2

So, it's one of these extremely sluggish cars w/a max speed of 62.5 mph?

http://priuschat.com/forums/ev-electric-vehicle-discussion/93863-smart-fortwo-electric-drive-passion-very-slow.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

20kW max power, and I don't think I got one above 55mph yet... Maybe downhill.

 

[jeremyz]

I drove an electric car2go Smart ForTwo in Austin the other day. It has a peak power of 30kW and was super sluggish. It makes the Leaf feel like an F1 car.

 

[Herm]

The 3rd generation will be sold spring 2013:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$25,000 not including the Fed $7500 tax credit or the CA $2500 rebate will make it the cheapest BEV sold in the US. 78mph top speed and a 17.6kWh battery pack that could get you 90 miles of range.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/driving-the-2013-smart-fortwo-ed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Of all the new features on the 2013 Smart Fortwo ED, including a larger battery pack and a more powerful motor, one is engineered to garner the most attention: its price.

Accounting for the maximum federal income tax credit of $7,500, the price of the 2013 model, scheduled to go on sale next spring, can be reduced from $25,750 to $18,250. From there, any available state subsidies could be applied. In California, where a zero-emissions-vehicle program recently awarded its 10,000th rebate, the price could potentially fall a further $2,500.

Even for non-Californians, the positioning makes the Fortwo ED the lowest-price battery-electric car on the American market. Donna Boland, a spokeswoman for Mercedes-Benz USA, said the company did not intend to “play games” and advertise the price inclusive of the tax credit.

Smart USA brought its electric cars to Brooklyn on Wednesday for test drives along the waterfront and around Prospect Park. It was a homecoming of sorts, as the company offered test drives of the second-generation car, which was only available for lease, in the borough in 2010.


According to Heiko Schmidt, a Smart product manager, Tesla Motors, which supplied the battery and other components for the Mercedes-Benz B-Class E.V. on display at the Paris motor show, was not producing the battery for the updated and upgraded Fortwo ED. Instead, the vehicle will ship with a 17.6 kilowatt-hour battery pack from Deutsche ACCUmotive, a subsidiary of Daimler, owner of the Smart brand.

At peak output of 55 kilowatts, the motor can produce 74 horsepower in two-minute bursts. The motor, according to Mr. Schmidt, is produced in a joint venture with Bosch. Charging the battery from depleted to full using the 240-volt charger, a $1,300 option, would take about six hours. A driver would reach a 20 percent to 80 percent level of charge in 3.5 hours, Mr. Schmidt added. Though Smart USA asserted the Fortwo ED’s travel range on a full charge would be 90 miles, the estimate had not yet been corroborated by the Environmental Protection Agency.

The result is a vehicle that feels quick off the line, with an available 100 pound-feet of torque and a manufacturer-estimated run from zero to 60 miles per hour in 11.5 seconds, an improvement of 50 percent over the second-generation car, Mr. Schmidt said. It would also make the Fortwo ED quicker than a standard Fortwo, as observed by Edmunds. Top speed of the electric car is about 80 m.p.h. The Brooklyn streets were best for stop-and-go, so the Smart’s highway prowess was untested."

 

[LEAFfan]

BUT, no QC port and the article said 75mph top speed.

 

[cwerdna]

I wonder how many sales they'll get given how puny Smart's sales are in the US as it is. They've been on a sharp decline in the US over the years, possibly since they began US sales.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/02/september-2012-a-return-to-normalcy-edition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/04/2011-onward-and-upward-edition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/by-the-numbers-2010-the-year-after-that-really-bad-year-editi/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/05/by-the-numbers-2009-up-and-down-year-ends-down-for-most-editi/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Odd (or maybe not) that it doesn't have SAE Frankenplug...

 

[Herm]

Its not really a car for hwy travel so why would you need a fast charge plug?, it has to be scary on the hwy.. anyone see the advantage of a tiny park anywhere $15k BEV from a known manufacturer?

 

[LEAFfan]

Its not really a car for hwy travel so why would you need a fast charge plug?, it has to be scary on the hwy.. anyone see the advantage of a tiny park anywhere $15k BEV from a known manufacturer?

Of course it is! It's an upgrade from the previous model. It rides better, goes much faster, and has more range. Without QC, no Tucson, Sedona, or Flagstaff. Even CA would be doable.

 

[surfingslovak]

Its not really a car for hwy travel so why would you need a fast charge plug?, it has to be scary on the hwy.. anyone see the advantage of a tiny park anywhere $15k BEV from a known manufacturer?

I drove a diesel smart in Germany on the autobahn. It's actually quite competent, really not bad at all. Had a gasoline convertible model in the US, and it was a total head-turner. People were asking questions literally on every stoplight. I probably wouldn't get it if I expected to commute on the autobahn, but it's very popular in Germany as a city runaround.

I don't know how I would feel about pure freeway commutes in the US though. The average speed is much lower than on the autobahn, and the lanes are wider, but we also have inattentive drivers. Daimler invested a lot into R&D to make the smart very safe, but I would likely feel a bit better in a Leaf-size vehicle.

 

[LEAFfan]

Its not really a car for hwy travel so why would you need a fast charge plug?, it has to be scary on the hwy.. anyone see the advantage of a tiny park anywhere $15k BEV from a known manufacturer?

I drove a diesel smart in Germany on the autobahn. It's actually quite competent, really not bad at all. Had a gasoline convertible model in the US, and it was a total head-turner. People were asking questions literally on every stoplight. I probably wouldn't get it if I expected to commute on the autobahn, but it's very popular in Germany as a city runaround.

I don't know how I would feel about pure freeway commutes in the US though. The average speed is much lower than on the autobahn, and the lanes are wider, but we also have inattentive drivers. Daimler invested a lot into R&D to make the smart very safe, but I would likely feel a bit better in a Leaf-size vehicle.

It's actually pretty safe. I just saw a video of one (YouTube) hitting a concrete barrier head-on at 70mph! It did really well.

 

[cwerdna]

It's actually pretty safe. I just saw a video of one (YouTube) hitting a concrete barrier head-on at 70mph! It did really well.

As much as I hate an arms race of having the largest, heaviest vehicle, I would NOT want to drive a Smart ForTwo here in the US. I think I've posted about this before.

Frontal crash tests into fixed barriers are only useful when comparing w/other vehicles in the same/similar class w/similar weights. Those tests always have those caveats. There are few cars sold in the US w/curb weights as low the Smart ForTwo.

From http://www.safercar.gov/FAQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

Frontal crash rating results can only be compared to other vehicles in the same class and whose weight is plus or minus 250 pounds of the vehicle being rated. This is because a frontal crash rating into a fixed barrier represents a crash between two vehicles of the same weight.

See http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Page/0f3bec79-828b-4e0c-8030-9fa8314ff342/comparable-cars.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as well.

To see what happens you crash a compact sedan (per EPA rating) into a Smart ForTwo, see these:
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr041409.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.iihs.org/video.aspx/releases/pr041409" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he6TL15pJtw&playnext=1&list=PLDD0AB942B4A114DF&feature=results_video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - just the crash test

That's a ~3500 lb. compact car (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=26243&id=26294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false vs. ~1800 lb. car. Per http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fetrends/2012/420s12001a.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, MY2011 light vehicle average curb weight was 4084 lbs. Almost every single car around you is heavier and larger. In my area, there are an insane percentage of battering ram of death class SUVs (curb weight of 5200+ lbs. e.g. Tahoes, Yukons, Suburbans, Escalades, etc.) including some that are so heavy they're not even "light vehicles" anymore (e.g. Hummer H2 at 6400+ lbs.)

Even a '13 Honda Fit ranges from 2496 to 2628 lbs (http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/specifications.aspx?group=dimensions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and a '12 Civic (http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx?group=dimensions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false ranges from 2608 to 2795 lbs. The tiny 2127 lb. Scion iQ (http://www.scion.com/cars/iQ/specs/#category=weight-capacities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false is already slightly outside the 250 lb comparison limit mentioned at safercar.gov.

About the only semi-recent (but no longer sold) cars w/similar curb weights OTOH are the Geo/Chevy Metro (ended w/model year 01) and Honda CR-X (last model year was 91).

It wouldn't be a big deal if there were no other vehicles, there were no such thing as multi-vehicle crashes or everyone else drove a car in the same class and w/similar weight. But, none of these are true.

 

[Herm]

Those are great links, thanks!.. mostly I was concerned about the feel of driving such a small car on the hwy.. it would be scary for me, it just means I would stay out of the hwy and increase my range.

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr041409.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Honda Accord versus Fit: The structure of the Accord held up well in the crash test into the Fit, and all except one measure of injury likelihood recorded on the driver dummy's head, neck, chest, and both legs were good. In contrast, a number of injury measures on the dummy in the Fit were less than good. Forces on the left lower leg and right upper leg were in the marginal range, while the measure on the right tibia was poor. These indicate a high risk of leg injury in a real-world crash of similar severity. In addition, the dummy's head struck the steering wheel through the airbag. Intrusion into the Fit's occupant compartment was extensive. Overall, this minicar's rating is poor in the front-to-front crash, despite its good crashworthiness rating based on the Institute's frontal offset test into a deformable barrier. The Accord earns good ratings for performance in both tests."

 

[cwerdna]

Yep.

Here are some other curb weights (some from other posts I've made elsewhere on this exact subject):
2010 Mini Cooper manual: 2568 lbs.
2010 Honda Civic sedan: 2630 to 2831 lbs.
2006 Toyota Prius (what I drive): 2890 lbs.
2002 Nissan Maxima: 3218 lbs.
2004 Nissan 350Z: 3210 lbs.
2013 Chevy Tahoe: starts at 5467 lbs (http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe-mid-size-suv/features-specs/capabilities.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
2013 Chevy Surburban half-ton: starts a 5680 lbs (http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-half-ton-suv/features-specs/capabilities.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
2013 Chevy Surburban 3/4 ton: starts at 6141 lbs.
2012 Toyota Yaris: 2295 lbs. for a 3-door L 5MT, 2315 lbs for a 5-door LE/SE 4AT (http://www.toyota.com/yaris/specs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

 

[cwerdna]

Forbes: Test Drive: Smart Fortwo Electric Drive Is Much Better Than The Gas Version:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewdepaula/2012/10/31/test-drive-smart-fortwo-electric-drive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Forbes: Test Drive: Smart Fortwo Electric Drive Is Much Better Than The Gas Version:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewdepaula/2012/10/31/test-drive-smart-fortwo-electric-drive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice review. Pitt Moos would be happy to see it. He is in some of the FB owners groups as well. It looks like they will have a convertible version, nice move.

 

[Robster1979]

Americans are not very used (yet) to small cars. For me, the Smart it works incredibly well in the city of Amsterdam en still good on the sub urban highways (speed limit in the Netherlands between 62 and 80 mph).

I've got a BMW 1 series as a company car, but drive the electric Smart around town (car2go) very often. I love it and I feel save in it. But I must admit that the average car size in the Netherlands is less than half of what I see when I'm in California.

I'm looking forward to the 3rd Generation, as that might give a significant sales boost to electric cars in the Netherlands.