Cold weather range significantly less than it should be?

[fastmaxxcooper]

I'm getting very bad mileage from the car, while I understand cold batteries are less efficient, it is a lot less than Nissan's estimates.
While freezing my buns off to make it to work and home WITHOUT HEAT, the car says I get about 3.4-3.8 miles/kwh, but for a 52 mile round trip and about 4 miles left (almost turtle the car every day) it works out to around a 15kwh battery. Car is a 2012 with 25,000 miles and all 13 battery bars.

So with these cold days in the teens, my habits go as follows.

Charger power to heat the car for ~15 minutes while plugged in.

Drive ~27 miles to work driving conservatively, ~40 mph back roads, and 20 miles is highway at 60-65 mph. WITH NO HEAT I only use the heated seat and wheel.

(Sometimes) start the heater for ~10 minutes before I leave work

Drive ~25 miles home (different route for different traffic) 15 of which are 55-65 mph highway.

Every DAY I make it home with about 4-7 miles left on the car, most days getting home with --- (dashes).

I have 25,000 miles with all 13 battery bars, and the first bar still takes about 5 miles to go away.

Now I haven't done the software update, but I doubt that will keep the car from entering turtle mode as frequently as it does.

I just don't get why I'm freezing my hands off and still barely making it home. The feeling of warm palms and freezing backs of my hands are a strange sensation for sure.

This is for all days between 10 and 35 degrees I experience this. Above that, I'll get a little better with 10-15 miles left on the car.

Normally in the summer I average 4.2 to 4.8 miles per kwh, and I will get between 70 to 100 miles of range, depending on my habits.

 

[kmp647]

Check your cold tire pressure, at least 36 psi ? Many go much higher

Are you charging to 100% ? You must in CT in the winter

Are you charging to full just before your departure?

Using eco mode?
Did you change your tires by chance to snows?
Trickle charge at work?

Otherwise I am not surprised , cold is tough on batteries and range
I have a similr commute and have 35k on my car , not quite as low as you , but 1-2 bars left most days unless I trickle at work , no heater use

 

[XeonPony]

the eco mode with the 2013 is garbage I see no benifit in using it when I first got it I drived in that then I did several runs in normale and saw no vissible difference.

Go slower saves allot of juice, don't use the heat.

Here it is -30c (-28f) I drive 64km and I wear my skie mask down coat and have a blanket in the car plus gloves and drive average of 80 to 75kmpH and even then I get to work with 19 or less % soc if lucky

just use steering wheel and seat heaters.

 

[reeler]

I was charging once per day to do the round trip to work and freezing without heat. I now charge at home and at work, and roast myself in heat like ICE cars enjoy. It probably costs $15 more in juice to do that, but worth it to me.

 

[LeftieBiker]

the eco mode with the 2013 is garbage I see no benifit in using it when I first got it I drived in that then I did several runs in normale and saw no vissible difference.

Driving style can cancel out the advantages of Eco mode. If you mash the "Go" pedal to the floor it won't matter at all as far as motor consumption goes. However, it also reduces heater and A/C output, and that matters if you use the heater. I find that using Eco with cruise control works well.

 

[fastmaxxcooper]

no heat, running in eco, just heated seat and steering wheel. This morning it was 5 degrees and it took 58% of my battery to get to work! I even slowed it down to 55 mph highway and 35-40 back roads to try driving more efficient and it didn't help. This is getting old! all winter has been like this! Also I notice in cold weather, the USB socket barely charges my iphone.

Driving home will be a challenge for sure. It's only getting up to ~20 degrees!

 

[ericsf]

no heat, running in eco, just heated seat and steering wheel. This morning it was 5 degrees and it took 58% of my battery to get to work! I even slowed it down to 55 mph highway and 35-40 back roads to try driving more efficient and it didn't help. This is getting old! all winter has been like this! Also I notice in cold weather, the USB socket barely charges my iphone.

Driving home will be a challenge for sure. It's only getting up to ~20 degrees!

Charging Li-Ion batteries below 30F damages the battery so most electronic devices embedded chargers automatically prevent or reduce charging in the extereme cold. This is probably why your iPhone would not charge and not because the USB socket is affected by the cold. You can verify this assumption by putting your phone in a pocket where it will stay warm.

 

[TimLee]

I'm getting very bad mileage from the car, while I understand cold batteries are less efficient, it is a lot less than Nissan's estimates.
...
I have 25,000 miles with all 13 battery bars, and the first bar still takes about 5 miles to go away.

Sorry. 2011 / 2012 / 2013S LEAF range is really bad in cold weather. 2013 SV & SL with heat pump heater is a bit better, but even its efficiency falls off quickly below 32F and is no better at all below 0F.

But you're not using the heater.

There's is a lot of confusion in your statements about battery bars.
There are only 12 status of charge bars. There will always be 12 of these when the car is charged to 100%. This is the bar you are losing after driving 5 miles.
The battery capacity bars are the small ones on the far right.
When new there are also 12 of these.
When battery capacity has dropped ~20% on the 2011 & 2012 LEAF the top capacity bar will disappear (and most likely be gone forever unless you possibly get the P3227 software change done, and then it likely would only return for a short while).
Are you sure you still have 12 capacity bars?

With 25,000 miles, and depending on background of the LEAF battery on temperature exposure and how long it has been left sitting at 100% charge, you might have already lost one capacity bar. I lost first capacity bar in TN at around 16,000 miles. Has your 2012 LEAF always been in CT, and never been left sitting lengthy periods at 100%, or possibly been left sitting lengthy periods in a much higher than ambient garage? Did you get the LEAF with real low miles from dealer shortly after it came off the truck, or did the dealer have it a long time, possibly charged to 100%?
Even if you still have 12 capacity bars, you could be close to losing the first bar and being down 20% on capacity.

The first winter in a new LEAF you don't notice the range impact in winter as much. Second year you notice it a lot. Third winter it becomes a real issue.
My last two trips starting at 100% charge and using all the heat I wanted and getting home with around 1 or 2 status of charge bars and the Distance to Empty showing around 6 to 10 miles, were only about 25 miles.
LEAF is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle.
But in winter with battery degradation and heater use, it becomes a 25 mile range vehicle.

 

[ksnogas2112]

@fastmaxx
What you're seeing is not out of the realm of expectations. It's what I'm seeing too. I have a '12 w/20k miles and seeing the same results. You get no regen when the batteries are this cold so there's no benefit of eco vs drive because the batteries won't take the charge. I have used more friction brake in the last month than in the previous year combined it seems. If you have even a 120volt plug at the office that would certainly help during the worst of the winter. You're actually getting decent m/kwh for the cold. Better than me but my distance normally isn't as tight so i use the heat. Monday I only had 1 battery temp bar lit and a friend across town showed 0. When driving in D it felt just like it was in ECO and there was no regen at all.

On the plus side you're summers probably aren't too bad so I expect you're seeing less than 10% over battery degradation so hopefully you'll keep that 12th capacity bar during this summer. I expect to loose mine as soon as it heats up.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

While freezing my buns off to make it to work and home WITHOUT HEAT, the car says I get about 3.4-3.8 miles/kwh

That is pretty damn good. Today I'm at 2.7 or 2.8 after 24 miles and that is also without heat, temps in the low teens, and suburban mild traffic.

When I bought the car I remember seeing an estimated range at 15 mph with heat going at around 43 miles, like in a snow storm. Realistically that is absolute fantasy land. The heating alone would suck up a good 15 kWh over those four hours.

This thing's winter range is absolutely despicable, truth be told. It sad, because in the summer it's nice, but I'm increasingly just driving without heat this winter. It's pretty embarrassing, frankly.

most days getting home with --- (dashes)

In these cases you're only a handful of miles short of turtle mode.

---------

It's kind of amazing how few of us are not using heat. Is this a big of a dirty little secret? I doubt Nissan would like too many of its people to evangelize the car with the caveat "Yeah, in the winter I don't have any heat other than the steering wheel and chair."

 

[marksleaf]

I think TimLee is spot on. The LEAF is no good at temps around 0F, if you have more than 25 miles to drive.
Guess we have to remember, in a lot of areas, it hasn't been this cold in 20 years.

 

[apvbguy]

I think TimLee is spot on. The LEAF is no good at temps around 0F, if you have more than 25 miles to drive.
Guess we have to remember, in a lot of areas, it hasn't been this cold in 20 years.

here in my little part of the world it was in the low 30's all day, without my heater on I figured the car's range was about 20% or more lower than usual because of the cold

 

[planet4ever]

I have 25,000 miles with all 13 battery bars, and the first bar still takes about 5 miles to go away.

There's is a lot of confusion in your statements about battery bars. There are only 12 status of charge bars. There will always be 12 of these when the car is charged to 100%. This is the bar you are losing after driving 5 miles.

The battery capacity bars are the small ones on the far right. When new there are also 12 of these. When battery capacity has dropped ~20% on the 2011 & 2012 LEAF the top capacity bar will disappear (and most likely be gone forever unless you possibly get the P3227 software change done, and then it likely would only return for a short while). Are you sure you still have 12 capacity bars?

Ahh! I think you've nailed it, Tim. I'll bet fastmaxxcooper is seeing one extra charge bar above the top capacity bar. Like many of us originally did, he thought of the skinny bars as just a scale, not a separate gauge. Therefore he is assuming he now has 13 charge bars. I was so puzzled by his reference to 13, and wondering if he had read here about "hidden bars", but now I (probably) understand.

Ray

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

no heat, running in eco, just heated seat and steering wheel. This morning it was 5 degrees and it took 58% of my battery to get to work! I even slowed it down to 55 mph highway and 35-40 back roads to try driving more efficient and it didn't help. This is getting old! all winter has been like this! Also I notice in cold weather, the USB socket barely charges my iphone.

Driving home will be a challenge for sure. It's only getting up to ~20 degrees!

Sad, but true, you've discovered the limits of the car in this cold. Your pushing your luck. Add in a snowstorm and you're not going to make it.

Can't charge at work? I see 7 L2s around New London on PlugShare, and 5-6 more in the burbs, any of those usable for you? A half hour could make all the difference.

You say you sometimes preheat on battery power before you leave work, that's draining you, try parking in the sun.

+1 on the tire pressure. Suggest 40 psi.

 

[TimLee]

... I'll bet fastmaxxcooper is seeing one extra charge bar above the top capacity bar. Like many of us originally did, he thought of the skinny bars as just a scale, not a separate gauge. Therefore he is assuming he now has 13 charge bars. I was so puzzled by his reference to 13, and wondering if he had read here about "hidden bars", but now I (probably) understand.

Ray

Good point Ray. I was baffled by where he was getting the statement of 13 bars too.
Having lived with one lost capacity bar now for several months, you make a good point that the display looks really strange when charged to 100% with 12 status of charge bars and 11 capacity bars.
Might be easy to think it was 13 bars.

 

[jswilson]

Interesting... I'm up in Ottawa, Canada where temps are normally at -20 celsius or less. This is my second year with my MY12 Leaf. It is simply the best winter car that I have ever owned! It handles great, maybe because of weight distribution - it's very stable is snow and ice. It never has any problems starting in the morning, and it warms up much quicker than any ICE car I've ever had! And it's also very warm in the cabin. The only one annoying thing is a draft at my feet.

I should say though, that my daily commute is around 50 kms or 31 miles.

My point is that if you drive the car within it's limits in the winter, it's a great car! I researched this ahead of time and knew that the Leaf would work for me in a Canadian winter.

 

[TimLee]

Interesting... I'm up in Ottawa, Canada where temps are normally at -20 celsius or less. This is my second year with my MY12 Leaf. It is simply the best winter car that I have ever owned! It handles great, maybe because of weight distribution - it's very stable is snow and ice. It never has any problems starting in the morning, and it warms up much quicker than any ICE car I've ever had! And it's also very warm in the cabin. The only one annoying thing is a draft at my feet.

I should say though, that my daily commute is around 50 kms or 31 miles.

My point is that if you drive the car within it's limits in the winter, it's a great car! I researched this ahead of time and knew that the Leaf would work for me in a Canadian winter.

Yes, overall the LEAF is a great car.
And if you pre-heat and know what you're doing, it can do 50 kms or 31 miles in really cold weather, even with 20% capacity loss (but may take you more than 6 or 7 years to get there in Canada).
I live in a much more moderate climate, but having attempted to start an ICE on a 5F day (or even worse a -24F day), the LEAF is much more user friendly on those days.
But it does not go very far in extremely cold weather.
Nominally 25 miles, but possibly 35 miles or a bit more if you pre-heat and are cautious with your driving.

 

[XeonPony]

the eco mode with the 2013 is garbage I see no benifit in using it when I first got it I drived in that then I did several runs in normale and saw no vissible difference.

Driving style can cancel out the advantages of Eco mode. If you mash the "Go" pedal to the floor it won't matter at all as far as motor consumption goes. However, it also reduces heater and A/C output, and that matters if you use the heater. I find that using Eco with cruise control works well.

in mine it does jack squate, it does not regulate the heater it does nothing other then modifying the power ramp curve and regen break level, but it is identicle to b mode with out the power ramping Vs pedal possition..

I find the way I drive I save more power in D mode, as I rely on a toutchy accelerater as I am used to engine breaking with the throttle from my diesel, and mashing the pedal? Only idiots do that imo it is a waste of fuel in an ICE and a waste of power in an ev and hard on the electronics and motor.

here it has warmed up to the single digit negitives and I can now fly to work doing 90kmph with the heat on and still get to work and home with 20% left and it reaches near a full charge with the L1 at work now!

I find the issues start at -15c with my brand new 2013

 

[funbobby137]

I might be missing something... A few people are talking about regularly preheating the car while it's still plugged in. This would make total sense to me if #1 you don't have to be in the seats to warm the seats and #2 you don't have to be moving for the friction plate to work. Am I wrong about this somehow? My seats don't warm if you're not in them and I can leave the heat on all day, but it doesn't warm up until I start driving around. I am referring to ambient temps. in the 20s and below though. I assume the heat pump works ok if it's over maybe 40 out.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You need to activate the heat with either CarWings or with the car's climate control timer, for the heat to flow.