Chicagoland area

[thefortunes]

Might need some (legal) help here.

So I installed my new Wattstation outside my house. Unfortunately my local home owners association has taken notice. Recently I noticed various people making alterations to their house without any response from the home owners associations but when you are trying to be green I guess that is a bigger offense. I had not involved them because they have a tendency to say no to everything so a big black box on a wall was never going to fly. I placed the installation behind where I usually park my car hoping that nobody would really care as they had will all the other changes people were making.

Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Do I need a lawyer?

Very sad.

Take a look at your HOA covenants and restrictions. If you are non-compliant by installing the Wattstation, document EVERY other instance of non-compliances in the neighborhood that you can find.

When the HOA gives you notice, you probably have a method of appealing. Bring the list of other non-compliant alterations. Odds are STRONG that if there are significant other non-compliances that have been allowed, the HOA will have no leg to stand on in court (if it gets to that).

A similar thing happened to us about 15 years ago (a neighbor planned to build a HUGE garage in his backyard to service vehicles). We tried to enjoin him, and he won because the covenants about garden sheds were not being enforced.

 

[YashuV]

I am really good at the condominium law... if it's similar, then you should read the bylaws it will tell you what part of your home is yours and what's not. If the wall outside is HOA and inside walls are yours, then I would move the box inside the house so they wouldn't be able to fine you or anything. There isnt really much they can do on the other hand. Because car is a "must" for everyday life, they know it, if the energy comes from your bill and not theirs then there shouldn't be a problem. I am afraid your HOA might not be fully educated on the subject, and they might be doing something against their own law. Also remember that the state law is superior to the HOA laws ;-)

 

[redLEAF]

Might need some (legal) help here.

So I installed my new Wattstation outside my house. Unfortunately my local home owners association has taken notice. Recently I noticed various people making alterations to their house without any response from the home owners associations but when you are trying to be green I guess that is a bigger offense. I had not involved them because they have a tendency to say no to everything so a big black box on a wall was never going to fly. I placed the installation behind where I usually park my car hoping that nobody would really care as they had will all the other changes people were making.

Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Do I need a lawyer?

Very sad.

You may want to check the CA threads as there was a recent discussion over HOA not being able to 'ban' EVSE chargers --- may of course not apply to IL but it's the principle of the thing.

 

[bigtlb]

My performance today was a wash. I ended up at home with almost the same remain miles as previous days (17 miles left on GOM).

I can only assume that whatever range reduction I experienced by snow, and having to run the defogger a little more often was offset by the slightly slower driving speeds due to the inclement weather.

Tomorrow will be my last day on my current 58 mile round trip (training is over). And, will probably be the most challenging with the sharp temperature drop.

Then it is back to my regular work schedule, with an L2 awaiting at both ends of my daily commute. Then I can think about backing off to 80% charging.

 

[bwallach]

Haven't tried the Walgreens charger as I have a 220/240 Nissan charger in the garage. I am looking forward to the level 3 at the Whole Foods near the Petersen Exit off the Edens. I've sent a question regarding the CharJit card to the president of 350 inquiring how to get a card or do whatever needs be done to make it of use. Initially it was written to me that it was free. So I'm glad I didn't rely to use the operational one at UIC had I needed it. I'm going to give it a trial run in the snow and see how it goes over the next day or so. i've read to not use the ECO mode

Do you know if "all" the whole foods will be getting the quick chargers? It would great if the one in Deerfield gets one too.

Why is it not ok to use "ECO" mode in the snow?

 

[redLEAF]

Haven't tried the Walgreens charger as I have a 220/240 Nissan charger in the garage. I am looking forward to the level 3 at the Whole Foods near the Petersen Exit off the Edens. I've sent a question regarding the CharJit card to the president of 350 inquiring how to get a card or do whatever needs be done to make it of use. Initially it was written to me that it was free. So I'm glad I didn't rely to use the operational one at UIC had I needed it. I'm going to give it a trial run in the snow and see how it goes over the next day or so. i've read to not use the ECO mode

Do you know if "all" the whole foods will be getting the quick chargers? It would great if the one in Deerfield gets one too.

Why is it not ok to use "ECO" mode in the snow?

As it 'reduces' power to the HVAC system I would think that would be the biggest drawback (much slower to clear windows); but as you put a car in lower gear for more traction I would think it wouldn't hurt on that aspect; although again you're reducing power so perhaps less traction -- it's easy enough to shift from ECO to D on the fly so see what works best for you. My wife has had our LEAF the last few days as I needed to drive much longer distances (initial visit to our CPA for '11 tax prep, etc.) and has noticed that clearing the windows takes a lot longer than she expected -- she doesn't have access to a PC (no smart phone either) where she works so I told her I could 'pre-heat' the car for when she leaves work but she may simply use D for the trip home during bad weather --- it's a very short commute. On the tax front, my CPA has not done a Fed Tax Credit for an EV but I'm sure he'll figure it out; we did also talk about the IL EPA rebate and he says it could go either way but doubts that it will be considered income. I saw the tax discussion on another thread and it's really up to the government reporting agency so we'll see. We do get 1099 G forms for our IL tax refunds that need to be reported but the IL EPA is another agency other than the revenue dept. so who knows --- and NO I haven't seen the rebate or for that matter my 'EL' series plates.

 

[Bzzzzz]

Haven't tried the Walgreens charger as I have a 220/240 Nissan charger in the garage. I am looking forward to the level 3 at the Whole Foods near the Petersen Exit off the Edens. I've sent a question regarding the CharJit card to the president of 350 inquiring how to get a card or do whatever needs be done to make it of use. Initially it was written to me that it was free. So I'm glad I didn't rely to use the operational one at UIC had I needed it. I'm going to give it a trial run in the snow and see how it goes over the next day or so. i've read to not use the ECO mode

Do you know if "all" the whole foods will be getting the quick chargers? It would great if the one in Deerfield gets one too.

Why is it not ok to use "ECO" mode in the snow?

As it 'reduces' power to the HVAC system I would think that would be the biggest drawback (much slower to clear windows); but as you put a car in lower gear for more traction I would think it wouldn't hurt on that aspect; although again you're reducing power so perhaps less traction -- it's easy enough to shift from ECO to D on the fly so see what works best for you. My wife has had our LEAF the last few days as I needed to drive much longer distances (initial visit to our CPA for '11 tax prep, etc.) and has noticed that clearing the windows takes a lot longer than she expected -- she doesn't have access to a PC (no smart phone either) where she works so I told her I could 'pre-heat' the car for when she leaves work but she may simply use D for the trip home during bad weather --- it's a very short commute. On the tax front, my CPA has not done a Fed Tax Credit for an EV but I'm sure he'll figure it out; we did also talk about the IL EPA rebate and he says it could go either way but doubts that it will be considered income. I saw the tax discussion on another thread and it's really up to the government reporting agency so we'll see. We do get 1099 G forms for our IL tax refunds that need to be reported but the IL EPA is another agency other than the revenue dept. so who knows --- and NO I haven't seen the rebate or for that matter my 'EL' series plates.

No plates here as well. I wouldn't expect the IL rebate for another month at the earliest.

I'm a little surprised about your reports of inadequate defogging of the windows. I do 90% of my driving in ECO with the climate control off, and when I need to clear the windshield, I just hit the windshield defog button, and it clears almost instantly, even when it is obviously blowing cold air.

 

[bigtlb]

I lost a little more range today on my last round-trip out to Hoffman Estates. I think this was a combination of colder weather and having to crawl through some unplowed streets in the suburbs. I had to use a snow scraper and clear out the wheel wells before starting the return trip home, as the snow had built up around the wheels. I wouldn't have thought too much about that with my Beetle. But you are much more aware of any possible rolling losses with the LEAF.

Anyway, standard round trip of 58 miles, this time had 8 miles remaining on GOM. Earlier in the week I had been getting home with 17-22 remaining.

Also, I have sent follow up requests for information in to Mariana Gerzanych (CEO 350Green) about the L3 charging stations and how to get a Charjit account. Nothing yet.

I posted some tweets as well and got this reply today.

Fast Chargers in Chicago are not operational yet, you can use Level 2 stations at no cost. Thanks for your patience.

 

[bigtlb]

Went by the Whole Foods at Halsted & Waveland to confirm that they have their DC Fast Charger installed.

They do, but no more information about how to use it or get a Charjit card.

My fear is that 350Green is not planning on this being a pay-per-use device. But, instead you will have to pay a monthly membership fee. And, because of that they are trying to install the beginnings of the network before rolling out their plans.

 

[dutchinchicago]

This is it. I am probably going to sell my leaf.

I drove to Woodfield mall last night. 52 mile round trip. Drove both ways in eco mode, heating off (except occasional defog when we really could not see anything anymore), driving under the speed limit and both ways avoided the highway about half of the way.

We got home with the low battery warning two miles from home.

This is completely unacceptable. As soon as the temperature drops under 20 the range drops to just over 50 miles.

I need to drive 50 miles about once a week and driving in these cold temperatures without heating is getting old really fast.

This is the seconds time that I barely made it home on a 50 mile drive.

I am looking at buying either a Volt or a Prius V.

No idea yet on how to sell the Leaf. Is going to be an interesting experience. No idea what I would be getting for it with all the rebates.

 

[Bzzzzz]

This is it. I am probably going to sell my leaf.

I drove to Woodfield mall last night. 52 mile round trip. Drove both ways in eco mode, heating off (except occasional defog when we really could not see anything anymore), driving under the speed limit and both ways avoided the highway about half of the way.

We got home with the low battery warning two miles from home.

This is completely unacceptable. As soon as the temperature drops under 20 the range drops to just over 50 miles.

I need to drive 50 miles about once a week and driving in these cold temperatures without heating is getting old really fast.

This is the seconds time that I barely made it home on a 50 mile drive.

I am looking at buying either a Volt or a Prius V.

No idea yet on how to sell the Leaf. Is going to be an interesting experience. No idea what I would be getting for it with all the rebates.

Sorry to hear that, Dutch. Are you charging to 80% or 100%? Did you preheat the car before leaving home? How much range did the car tell you you had when you got home? Are there any public chargers near your route home that you could use in an emergency?

 

[lukati]

We are kind of the low temperature guinea pigs around here.

The battery takes a hit at low temperature, no question about that. But you still had ~10-15 miles in the tank when the low battery warning came on. Although I haven't done a systematic test, I think that preheating is likely the key to getting good range at low temperature. It is not only about the cabin temperature; it appears the car has more range when preheated for 40 or so minutes. My RT commute is about 50 miles and so far I still manage with 80 % charging and preheating in the morning.

 

[redLEAF]

Would ask the same questions as well, as well as an important one (sorry can't recall if you mentioned this already) but is the LEAF your only vehicle? We did some similar mileage yesterday, lot's of errands, started out at an 80% charge and got the low charge warning (first time) while only 2 miles away from home; not the --- mileage (car had 7 miles charge left, basically one segment) so no concerns. We needed to do another trip later so we just plugged in at home, I took the timer off and as we had about 3 hours or so let it charge for this trip as it was another short one -- we've got even more errands today so let it charge to 100% overnight. Also important to note -- today should be low 30's, tomorrow close to 40 but then colder again later in the week. Last night it showed an indicated 7 F and was down to about 14 F during the day so the battery must have been working O/T. I know we drove close to 60 miles on the first segments but just a few stints to 50 MPH so no highway. This is all a new experience to us so while I feel your frustration we're not sure what the absolute limits during the winter will be -- also, in my own case we have other ICE vehicles for those days when it's just really bad outside and as it's still quite new, I don't want to expose it to the chance for an accident or break down when really cold. Even when it gets REALLY cold the wife will always be able to get back and forth to work (7 mile R/T) but will be interesting to see when it gets to 0 F or even lower. Her drive is typical suburban roads, 45 MPH max in some parts so will be interesting to equate the R/T in miles to how much juice it uses. In my own case at 28 to 30 R/T I doubt I'll take it when it gets down to 0 F unless I can see how it does for the wife's shorter trips -- we just don't know yet. The only time I probably felt as frustrated as you was more early on when we drove my son to O'Hare (again 80% charge) and ended up with only 14 mile range when we got home (38 mile R/T) which equates to a 52 mile range --- this is before I learned how easy it was to use the ECO mode and it has made a difference. I'd give it some more time but if it was my only car I'd probably do the same thing if I couldn't 'count on it' for a certain daily range that was really necessary for me -- as others have mentioned that cold temp range seems to be to a lot less than the 73 that the EPA shows we'll have to make adjustments or get something else --

As lukati just mentioned one other thing worth doing before deciding to sell it --- have you tried to preheat before these longer drives? Some say it also appears to help on the range as well, don't know myself as I haven't tried it but may when it gets to even lower temps ---

 

[Dino]

We are kind of the low temperature guinea pigs around here.

The battery takes a hit at low temperature, no question about that. But you still had ~10-15 miles in the tank when the low battery warning came on. Although I haven't done a systematic test, I think that preheating is likely the key to getting good range at low temperature. It is not only about the cabin temperature; it appears the car has more range when preheated for 40 or so minutes. My RT commute is about 50 miles and so far I still manage with 80 % charging and preheating in the morning.

Good advice.

I think another factor is whether it's parked in a garage or out in the wind.

 

[tps]

I drove to Woodfield mall last night. 52 mile round trip. Drove both ways in eco mode, heating off (except occasional defog when we really could not see anything anymore), driving under the speed limit and both ways avoided the highway about half of the way.

We got home with the low battery warning two miles from home.

This is completely unacceptable. As soon as the temperature drops under 20 the range drops to just over 50 miles.

We had 18F here in Philly last night. It never normally gets much colder than that. My LEAF, when it is delivered next month, will get here in time for what is normally the coldest part of the year. Anyway, my normal daily driving distance is 30-40 miles, and I might have an option to charge at work if necessary. So I think that the LEAF's cold weather performance will be acceptable for my needs. When I had the Hertz rental LEAF last July for a couple days, I got LBW a couple miles from home. This LEAF was an early one, VIN < 300, and I don't think it had the firmware upgrade which "hides" more reserve after LBW and LLBW. I wasn't worried and made it home before LLBW.

I'll continue to monitor the Chicagoland thread so I can get a better idea of the LEAF's cold weather performance.

 

[ibLEAF]

DISCOUNT on a 2012 Leaf in Chicagoland area. YES it exists. I picked mine up at Al Piemonte in Melrose Park. Fred Meeks is the Ass't Manager and asked me to forward the news to anyone interested. Tell them Mark with the Black Leaf sent you. Can't tell you exactly what he'll do, but he said he has 4 at the moment that he's willing to deal. They picked me up to make the deal and made everything simple and easy. Practically did all my dealings on the phone. Plus they know what they are talking about unlike the majority of the dealerships who are new to the Leaf. I usually felt that I knew way more about the car than most all the dealerships I dealt with. Just stumbled on them as I had one ordered somewhere else. They had an orphan sitting for 3 1/2 weeks and were convinced me they'd make it worth my while as the color black was what they had, though I ordered a silver. Let Fred know that you saw this information on the Leaf Forum for a sure discount. Thanks. LOVE MY LEAF, HATE THIS WEATHER.

Just talked to Fred. He's got a 2012 Blue and 2012 Red that he can sell immediately. He's dealing, so good hunting

 

[dutchinchicago]

This is our only car so that makes it more difficult.

The car is parked outside. We do pre-heat on the first leg but obviously can't for the return trip. The problem is that the car steams up with four people in it so you have to run the air conditioner to be able to see anything. We tried opening the windows at red lights but it is not long enough to clear the fog. We run the air-conditioning just for a minute until we can see outside again.

I did charge to 100%. I even did an extra start charging cycle even though it already had charged to 100% overnight to squeeze in a few extra electrons.

We got home with 7 miles estimated range back.

On the halfway mark we had used seven bars. We had done 26 miles at this point and the estimated range left for the last five bars was 54 miles. That really really pissed me off.

I have done the same route when it was a bit warmer and had three bars left at the end. It is very variable and seems very closely related to the temperature.

Now carvings shows that I am 100% charged and shows the estimated range as 47 miles with air-conditioning off. First time I have seen it being realistic.

There are L2 chargers all over the place but with only a 3.3kw charger there is not a lot of range that will be added and you will need to sit a couple of hours to really make a difference.

I was completed prepared for not being able to get the 100 miles from the brochure or even the 70 miles from the EPA but 50 miles was always within easy range I thought. Even with eco mode and heating off and avoiding highways it is not guaranteed.

I am hoping to get about 28-29K for the car. I think that I better sell it quickly if I want to sell it at all before the 2013 is being sold with the faster charger.

Will go and have a look at a Volt tomorrow.

 

[dutchinchicago]

Carwings just updated with yesterday's trip:

Distance Traveled: 57.5
Electricity Consumption: 15.7
Average Energy Economy: 3.7
Travel Time: 2.4

The 57.5 miles was further than the 52 miles I thought it was. We did stop for lunch on the way and it must have been more of a detour then I thought.

I am surprised that from 100% to a few miles beyond low battery warning is only 15.7 kWh. I though we could use closer to 20.

Way out: 29.9 miles, 8.4 kWh, 3.5 miles/kWh
Way back: 26.0 miles 6.7kWh, 3.9 miles/kWh

 

[Bzzzzz]

Carwings just updated with yesterday's trip:

Distance Traveled: 57.5
Electricity Consumption: 15.7
Average Energy Economy: 3.7
Travel Time: 2.4

The 57.5 miles was further than the 52 miles I thought it was. We did stop for lunch on the way and it must have been more of a detour then I thought.

I am surprised that from 100% to a few miles beyond low battery warning is only 15.7 kWh. I though we could use closer to 20.

Way out: 29.9 miles, 8.4 kWh, 3.5 miles/kWh
Way back: 26.0 miles 6.7kWh, 3.9 miles/kWh

Thanks very much for the update. Looks like you could have gotten roughly 65 miles real-world range if you needed to press the issue. If a 50-mile round trip is really the outside of your everyday driving needs, you might give the Leaf a bit more of a try before trying to unload it. But it is hard to say if the range will drop even further if we get into single-digit temperatures. I personally wouldn't get too freaked out by the low-battery warning if I knew that I had some L2 chargers near my route that could add even just a few miles to my range in 15 minutes or so. Not something you want to do regularly, but only if necessary.

Thanks again for the update and good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[YashuV]

Hey Dutch...

If I were you, I would hold off to you selling the car, few reasons:
1.) Some people will calculate that 7,5k rebate from federal and 4k from IL is 11,5k, so if someone pays 35k for leaf- 11,5k, that's 24,5k so thats less then 28k you are trying to sell.
2.) There is L2 charge station by Woodfield mall, why not charge your car there, when you are there?
3.) Green350 is one company that will provide DC Charge, that you could really benefit in your case. There will be more and more stores getting them. I heard rumors in Niles, IL there is new organic store opening in summer, by Meijer on Golf Rd., that will have DC charge stations as well as L2. So I am guessing more stores will soon have.
4.) And one last thing, as you can see people here have Leaf and don't have as many problems as you do, take your Leaf to dealer and tell them about your car having range problems. Tell him/her that on Nissan Forum people do the same and have tens of miles left on their bar. And actually I might think that this is the key to your problem . Also now I read your old posts you always had problem with your car since day 1. Maybe your car is the bad one that happens in one of a millions?

In Conclusion it's not good to sell your Leaf just yet, there is 2 months left of cold weather I think you can make it. Definitley by next winter there will be lots of DC charges