Chevrolet Spark EV

[evnow]

nope, and I think the U.S. should have let them go bankrupt, we wouldn't be in much worse shape than we already are, and we wouldn't have to deal with them any longer, so instead, we bankrupt the entire country?

Don't agree. Don't agree at all.

Bankrupt GM would have meant collapse of the Auto industry in the US (as all the parts manufacturers would have gone bankrupt). The money lost just in income tax from all that would have been higher than the small amount paid to support GM.

Supporting GM was a neccessary evil.

Free enterprise would have stepped up to fill the void left by their absence, it always has, and always will. It's not the governments job to bail out private business's, even ones deemed "to critical to let fail"

Sorry, you are blinded by ideology. 2008 crash was a result of free enterprise - it has now been discredited. Even Alan Greenspan, a groupie of Ayn Rand, said as much.

 

[scottf200]

.

 

[evnow]

Sentiments of one gm-volt poster ...

There is a sly move in that message. Calling the EV a City Car also ropes in the Leaf as a City Car too. Labeling it as City means you imply there is range anxiety from the start. Not that you cannot drive it elsewhere, just don’t drive it long distances without charging stops along the way.

No doubt, our Volt friends here will respond to the post and admonish suitably at gm-volt. :lol:

 

[hodad66]

actually the "war" seems to be waged here more often.
GM has a long history of sins.... no doubt but I will say again
the market will be big enough for all.

Different vehicles, different needs, same goal (general)
Reduce the use of fossil fuels....

 

[mitch672]

nope, and I think the U.S. should have let them go bankrupt, we wouldn't be in much worse shape than we already are, and we wouldn't have to deal with them any longer, so instead, we bankrupt the entire country?

Don't agree. Don't agree at all.

Bankrupt GM would have meant collapse of the Auto industry in the US (as all the parts manufacturers would have gone bankrupt). The money lost just in income tax from all that would have been higher than the small amount paid to support GM.

Supporting GM was a neccessary evil.

Free enterprise would have stepped up to fill the void left by their absence, it always has, and always will. It's not the governments job to bail out private business's, even ones deemed "to critical to let fail"

Sorry, you are blinded by ideology. 2008 crash was a result of free enterprise - it has now been discredited. Even Alan Greenspan, a groupie of Ayn Rand, said as much.

You don't have to agree or disagree, with GM's "stellar" management, they are likely to end up bankrupt again, and this time, we (the US Taxpayers), don't have the means or will to bail their sorry ass's out. The world would be (and eventually will be) a better place without GM, no one will convince me otherwise.

 

[hodad66]

just more Americans out of work.... what could be wrong with that?

 

[mitch672]

just more Americans out of work.... what could be wrong with that?

There are "official" numbers, and unofficial numbers. once you no longer get unemployment payments, you fall of the "official" numbers. unofficaly we are already at over %20, the worlds fiat currencies (they are all fiat at this point) are on the verge of collapse, a few more on the dole won't matter at this point. Those Americans can certainly work for new startups in the auto industry, Tesla, the new Nissan plant in TN, it's not the end of the world (well, except for the UAW good rittens) Nope, I don't and won't feel one bit sad when GM finally goes tits up.

 

[smkettner]

Bankrupt GM would have meant collapse of the Auto industry in the US (as all the parts manufacturers would have gone bankrupt). The money lost just in income tax from all that would have been higher than the small amount paid to support GM.

Supporting GM was a neccessary evil.

The FUD worked on the federal government and apparently worked on you.
I don't believe one lick of it. But we will never know for sure will we?
Therefore I call it all FUD.

 

[hodad66]

you already made that point.....

I'm waiting for the CEO's to start feeling the pain.....

 

[mitch672]

Ah, but we will likely find out, as GM is very likely to get into hot water again, and most likely, not get another bailout, there only about 10,000 things more deserving and productive to do with those funds. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. With the troubles facing the U.S., GM is small potatos now.

BTW, the CEO pay has little to do with GM's problems. How about making products the people want to buy, not making that you think they want.

 

[hodad66]

who made those decisions? Who got their bonuses even
as the companies go down the tubes?

GM's big problem was GMAC and the whole banking, mortgage,
Wall Street casino game. Ford was smart and stuck to finance
for vehicles only.

 

[evnow]

The FUD worked on the federal government and apparently worked on you.
I don't believe one lick of it. But we will never know for sure will we?
Therefore I call it all FUD.

FUD doesn't work on me. Moreoever - I'm not an ignoramus when it comes to finance/economics. Thanks for your concern, though.

Your "logic" as to why it is a FUD is unbeatable. :lol:

 

[evnow]

GM's big problem was GMAC and the whole banking, mortgage,
Wall Street casino game. Ford was smart and stuck to finance
for vehicles only.

GM's problems were made in the 60s-80s when managers promised good benefits later for low wages now. Ofcourse, collapse of car market post "free-market" induced crash of 2008 was the immediate trigger.

 

[mark13]

If GM fails so does the tax payer :evil:

 

[Stoaty]

I don't believe one lick of it. But we will never know for sure will we?
Therefore I call it all FUD.

Your "logic" as to why it is a FUD is unbeatable. :lol:

Yes, it is FUD because I SAY it is FUD. QED :roll:

 

[hodad66]

so if I was so off the mark... why did Ford survive? They
had UAW contracts.....

PS FUD is as FUD does...... :shock:

 

[scottf200]

There has been various post above that mention the limited production and areas in the USA as if that is the only place.

What are various thoughts that there are similar GM BEV vehicles named below in very populous and mass vehicle selling places like China and India? It would seem that the Spark is not such a new start up type of BEV and they are being a smart global business here.

Isn't it true that the USA future market is tiny by comparison to China and India? That means sales in the USA for all EVs (LEAF, Spark, FocusEV, etc) are not that significant statistically. Right?

The official GM media post.
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/1012_SparkEV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Feedback from participants in Chevrolet’s electric vehicle demonstration fleets in Shanghai (Sail EV), Korea (Cruze EV) and India (Beat EV) are being incorporated into the Spark EV.

 

[surfingslovak]

Not that I feel this way, but one could ask: And what, pray tell, has Nissan done, besides develop second rate batteries, take advantage of the heavy lifting done by GM on the tax credit, and suck down taxpayer money?

I jotted down a few statements Nissan has made over the years. They certainly cannot be held accountable for everything, but it's interesting to hear this with the benefit of hindsight. Although I give them a lot of credit, I don't think that they are a model company either. I would certainly not want to be at their mercy and I firmly believe that market competition is our friend. For example, I would like to know what kind of battery warranty would Nissan have offerred if GM didn't move ahead with an 8 years 100,000 miles warranty for the Volt.


1. We don’t have a capacity problem. We can sell hundreds, we can sell thousands,
we can sell tens of thousands. It’s an issue of market demand and infrastructure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LkwBgQdtg&t=91" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. Our engineers have developed a lithium-ion battery that goes 100 miles of real-world
range. We are completely confident in its performance, its durability and the amount of time it will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LkwBgQdtg&t=117" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. The mayors of San Francisco, San Jose and Oakland have all talked about making the
Bay Are an EV capital. So everybody is seeing and everybody is now working towards
supporting the introduction of EVs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LkwBgQdtg&t=243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. I know that there is some problems with getting the charging infrastructure going. Do you
know what plans are there for this?

I don’t know if I’d use the world problem. What I would use is that there are plans to get
the charging network out there. Here in California there are almost 4,500 charging station
already in the ground. Even as we sit here today. Now, they are using the technology that
was deployed back in the early 2000s. All you have to do is to take the cord off, take the
plug off the end, put the new plug on and they are ready to go.

The state of California is already looking at it and there is going to be a bid process to pick
a supplier to actually do that. So right away, there is 4,500 charging stations in California.

San Diego for example, there is gonna to be an additional 2,500 charging stations going in
the ground beginning in June and July and be all up and running by December of next year
(i.e. 2010). So there will be a charging station within every 5 miles, you will have access to
public charging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIkDJS3oFNo&t=212" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

The FUD worked on the federal government and apparently worked on you.
I don't believe one lick of it. But we will never know for sure will we?
Therefore I call it all FUD.

FUD doesn't work on me. Moreoever - I'm not an ignoramus when it comes to finance/economics. Thanks for your concern, though.

Your "logic" as to why it is a FUD is unbeatable. :lol:

Using a hypothetical outcome to prove your point is FUD plain and simple.
I personally think the domestic auto industry is far more resiliant and GM would have done fine in BK with no government assistance.
The big loser may have been the union legacy costs.

I don't blame you, the whole country and world seems to run on FUD. The latest is the Greek default worries and related FUD affecting the market.

 

[Herm]

Where you planning on taking a Leaf or Sparky on an interstate trip?.. probably not. Nothing wrong with a city car, that is the environment most of us drive in.. a NEV would have been an insult. BEVs will probably need a range of 150-200 miles before they lose the city car stink. Battery packs of 50-75kwh.

Sentiments of one gm-volt poster ...

There is a sly move in that message. Calling the EV a City Car also ropes in the Leaf as a City Car too. Labeling it as City means you imply there is range anxiety from the start. Not that you cannot drive it elsewhere, just don’t drive it long distances without charging stops along the way.