Cheapest Lvl 1 EVSE

[elmobob]

Hi all,

I'm looking for the cheapest portable 7amp-12amp LVL 1 Evse out there
so far I found a Leviton Evr lvl 1 portable for $500 - http://store.leviton.com/dp/B00700RZSS#.UTzTtBzvv2s - selectable 7 or 12 amp, but still think is too pricey.
Does anyone know of a cheaper one?

I need it because my Panasonic upgraded Lvl1\Lvl2 EVSE seems to draw more than 12amps at 110v, it keeps tripping the 110v breaker an hour after I plug the car in the parking lot where I work.

 

[kentuckyleaf]

I'd throw a kill a watt meter inline to see what your current L1 draw is before purchasing a new EVSE. Maybe there is something else on the same circuit that is pulling 12 amps. Of course it is likely a 7A EVSE will cure the tripped breaker problem, but would that ever be a slow charge rate! Looking at the model you suggested in your post, that's a reasonable price, I doubt you will find anything cheaper that is UL listed.

 

[davewill]

If you're handy and have a sense of adventure, you could build an OpenEVSE, which would give you a fully selectable unit. The EVSEUpgrade folks will program your upgrade to whatever rate you wish, for a fee, but I can't say I recommend it since it would limit L2 as well and not be selectable.

I'd be a little concerned about that outlet. Is there any way you can find out what size breaker it has, and what other loads are be on it? It would be much better to know why you're tripping the breaker instead of just guessing that a lower setting will be OK.

 

[LEAFer]

http://www.shopchevyparts.com/electronics/2013-volt-battery-charger-cable-110v/23106561-p-92256331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HTH.

 

[garygid]

The breaker, or the connection to it, might be defective.

 

[adric22]

http://www.shopchevyparts.com/electronics/2013-volt-battery-charger-cable-110v/23106561-p-92256331.html

I second this... I've been charging my Leaf from a GM voltec L1 unit for the last year with no problems at all. It did seem a little tight on the fit the first few weeks but it has since worn in and fits well now. They are definitely the least expensive EVSE available.

 

[iamwjh]

I always keep an eye on ebay.
Have experienced positive results by searching: "j1772" or "j-1772" or "evse" and then brandnames

 

[elmobob]

The breaker, or the connection to it, might be defective.

I had our building electrician check the outlet and breaker turns out is a 15A. He said everything is fine, the problem is that the outlets available on the 5th or 4th floor of the parking lot are tied to a breaker on the 2nd floor of the parking lot, the long run causes it to trip. If I plug into an outlet on the 1st - 3rd floor the breaker doesn't trip, only on the 4th fl or 5th it does. I asked him if he could change the breaker to a 20 amp and he looked at me like I was stupid. My work schedule is usually 9-5am and by the time I get there only the spot on the 5th floor is always available.

 

[Volusiano]

Something still doesn't make sense to me.

First of all, if there is no other load on the outlet, the long run should only cause a large voltage drop across the long line, which may cause your upgraded Panasonic EVSE to stop working if the drop is too large that the voltage at the outlet is too low. But it shouldn't cause the breaker to trip like you said, because the EVSE is still only drawing 12A at 120V. The 12A draw shouldn't have caused the 15A breaker to trip because the drawn current is well within the 15A limit.

Are you sure the breaker actually tripped? If it did, you would have had to find where the panel is to reset it because it wouldn't reset itself. But it seems like you didn't even know where the panel is until the electrician told you it's on the second floor. So how did you get it to trip several times if you didn't reset it every time? (you said it keeps tripping every time 1 hour after you plug the car in).

So, what I'm guessing is that the breaker didn't really trip like you said. It's your upgraded Panasonic EVSE that stops working after an hour due to the large current drop developed. Maybe the resistance on the line increases as it gets warmer during the charge, which makes the voltage drop progressively worse, up to a point where the EVSE can't function anymore. At that point, the breaker doesn't really "trip" like you said. It's the EVSE that shuts down due to too much voltage drop. And the next day you try again, the same scenario happens. But the breaker never trips this whole time.

One remedy is to find an L1 EVSE where you can set it to draw only 8A instead of 12A. This may help reduce the voltage drop enough so that you can get some charge in, although charging at 8A is definitedly slower than charging at 12A.

 

[JeffN]

One of the good things about the level 1 EVSE used by GM for the 2011 and 2012 Volt is that it is both cheap and it has a large button on the EVSE that allows you to switch between 8A and 12A charging. Of course, there are some gotchas:

* the original Volt Level 1 cords have been replaced under a "customer service campaign" because the 120v plug was not up to long-term 12A charging. Also, these cords did not work with 2011 LEAFs but did work with 2012 LEAFs. It's possible that a subsequent software update from Nissan might have fixed that but I have no evidence of that personally.

* the updated Volt Level 1 cords have an improved 120v plug and have a black (instead of orange) cord between the plug and the EVSE box. The cord between the EVSE box and the J1772 plug is still orange. These cords work with 2011 LEAFs but they, like the earlier Volt cord, do not work with 2012 Prius Plugins.

* the updated Volt Level 1 cords shipped with 2013 Volts are a new design. They work with all LEAFs and the Plugin Prius but they lack the 8A vs. 12A switch on the earlier Level 1 EVSE boxes (this rate switching functionality was moved to the car in 2013). The 2013 Volt Level 1 cords were under tight retail sale controls as of 2-3 months ago -- sales through dealers had to be approved as replacements for original 2013 Volt cords. Although these cords are listed for sale by various GM parts websites they may not actually be available for Internet sale.

It seems like you may want an EVSE that is optionally switchable to 8A charging so the pre-2013 Volt cords may work for you especially if you have a 2012 LEAF. If you somehow end up with one of the original Volt cords with the orange cable leading to the 120v plug it is easy to chop the old plug off and replace it with a $10 heavy duty plug from a hardware store.


Good luck!

 

[elmobob]

Something still doesn't make sense to me.

First of all, if there is no other load on the outlet, the long run should only cause a large voltage drop across the long line, which may cause your upgraded Panasonic EVSE to stop working if the drop is too large that the voltage at the outlet is too low. But it shouldn't cause the breaker to trip like you said, because the EVSE is still only drawing 12A at 120V. The 12A draw shouldn't have caused the 15A breaker to trip because the drawn current is well within the 15A limit.

Are you sure the breaker actually tripped? If it did, you would have had to find where the panel is to reset it because it wouldn't reset itself. But it seems like you didn't even know where the panel is until the electrician told you it's on the second floor. So how did you get it to trip several times if you didn't reset it every time? (you said it keeps tripping every time 1 hour after you plug the car in).

So, what I'm guessing is that the breaker didn't really trip like you said. It's your upgraded Panasonic EVSE that stops working after an hour due to the large current drop developed. Maybe the resistance on the line increases as it gets warmer during the charge, which makes the voltage drop progressively worse, up to a point where the EVSE can't function anymore. At that point, the breaker doesn't really "trip" like you said. It's the EVSE that shuts down due to too much voltage drop. And the next day you try again, the same scenario happens. But the breaker never trips this whole time.

One remedy is to find an L1 EVSE where you can set it to draw only 8A instead of 12A. This may help reduce the voltage drop enough so that you can get some charge in, although charging at 8A is definitedly slower than charging at 12A.

No.. it definitely trips, I unplug it and plug it in back and the evse doesn't light up ready on that outlet. First time it happened I got scared my Panasonic unit died so I plugged it into another outlet inside the building and green light came on. There is a video surveillance camera runs off that same breaker, so when it trips the cameras go out. I know because i noticed the pipe keeps going to where the camera is mounted to the ceiling from the outlet on the wall. Security called every time I tripped the breaker within half hour and had the electrician reset it. Like you said either the run is too long causing voltage to drop but it looks like in turn the car charger increases the amp load. Also, every floor of this parking lot is equivalent to 2 regular floors. I'll plug in a killawatt and see what the charger is actually drawing. In the meantime someone already PM who is selling a volt evse.

Thanks

 

[Volusiano]

Now that you've confirmed that there are other loads on the same circuit (the surveillance video camera at least), then that may explain why the circuit is tripping then.

Using the KillAWatt to see how much current draw is not going to help debug anything. You're probably going to see a 12A current draw because that's what the LEAF charger is designed to draw at 120V. And that's all you can confirm with the KillAWatt.

You may assume that a 7A or 8A EVSE may solve your problem. But you don't know that for a fact until you know what the other loads on the circuit are drawing. For example, if there's a 10A load on the circuit right now already, a 7A EVSE is still going to cause the breaker to trip anyway.

 

[elmobob]

Now that you've confirmed that there are other loads on the same circuit (the surveillance video camera at least), then that may explain why the circuit is tripping then.

Using the KillAWatt to see how much current draw is not going to help debug anything. You're probably going to see a 12A current draw because that's what the LEAF charger is designed to draw at 120V. And that's all you can confirm with the KillAWatt.

You may assume that a 7A or 8A EVSE may solve your problem. But you don't know that for a fact until you know what the other loads on the circuit are drawing. For example, if there's a 10A load on the circuit right now already, a 7A EVSE is still going to cause the breaker to trip anyway.

Yea, but I figure a surveillance cam usually doesn't draw more than 20 watts they usually run off 12v ac to dc converters, I've installed surveillance cameras before and unless they are motorized they don't draw much at all. Since only when I plug into the 4th or 5th floor it trips, that tells me that the long distance run is causing more of a load on the breaker. I'll try getting a cheap volt evse if not, it's all good,, I work for IT dept and the building's maintenance facility supervisor owes me a favor for fixing his personal laptop a few times, I just didn't want to use it up on this. If he's in a good mood I might push it and ask him for a 220V outlet :lol:

 

[QueenBee]

I'm curious what the math would be to calculate how much voltage drop from the length of the run you would need for a 12 amp load to trip a 15 amp circuit breaker. I'm not sure what it would take but I'm going to take a stab and say if there was that much voltage drop you'd be below what the LEAF requires to charge.

My guess is there are other loads on the circuit or the circuit breaker needs to be replaced.

 

[planet4ever]

I'm curious what the math would be to calculate how much voltage drop from the length of the run you would need for a 12 amp load to trip a 15 amp circuit breaker.

I don't understand what you are saying. Maybe I'm confused, but I thought 12 amps was 12 amps, regardless of the length of the run or the loss along the way. Isn't it just that when the 12 amps arrive at the end of a long and difficult run they are "tired", i.e. provide less voltage? So the watts vary, but not the amps.

Ray

 

[QueenBee]

I'm curious what the math would be to calculate how much voltage drop from the length of the run you would need for a 12 amp load to trip a 15 amp circuit breaker.

I don't understand what you are saying. Maybe I'm confused, but I thought 12 amps was 12 amps, regardless of the length of the run or the loss along the way. Isn't it just that when the 12 amps arrive at the end of a long and difficult run they are "tired", i.e. provide less voltage? So the watts vary, but not the amps.

Ray

So the impact of voltage will differ based on the load. I guess in our case the car should limit the amperage to 12 amps and as the voltage goes down the car consumes less energy/wattage like you said. But does it really do this? I thought I saw some measurements where it was increasing its amperage when the voltage got low.

So the amperage on both ends would be the same. Then I am thinking the difference in voltage times the amperage is how much energy is being wasted heating the wires. So if at 12 amps you have a 10 volt drop you are wasting 120 watts.

I must have been thinking about a load which consumes a steady wattage so as the voltage drops it has to increase the amperage to do the same amount of work. A computers power supply might be a good example of that.

I'd like to see a study on residential wiring to determine how much energy is wasted on high amperage loads to then determine if increasing the wire size for high amperage loads would be a practical way to save energy/money. I haven't played in new houses but in old ones with modern wiring I think normal receptacles often will exceed the acceptable voltage drops when at 80% of the circuits capacity fortunately if you have a strong 120+ volt service it would take some serious voltage drop to where it was low enough to be out of the range of your load.

 

[Volusiano]

I dont think that the surveillance camera takes that much power either. Not enough to trip the breaker along with the 12A EVSE. I also dont think the EVSE would draw more than 12A because of the voltage drop. That would not be a safe thing to do. The only logical conclusion left would be some other heavy enough load(s) you dont know about or a bad breaker.

 

[LEAFer]

Using the KillAWatt to see how much current draw is not going to help debug anything. You're probably going to see a 12A current draw because that's what the LEAF charger is designed to draw at 120V. And that's all you can confirm with the KillAWatt.

The Kill-A-Watt is useful, because it can also confirm the voltage drop.

 

[smkettner]

I would get the Leviton L1 for the low amp setting. But then hardly worth plugging in.
Possibly get to work earlier or ask if you can put a cone out to save the spot.

 

[mazdaboi]

There are a few listed on Ebay. One is a modified 120/240v Panasonic for $1068 (not cheap), a LCS-15 Clipper Creek, and I just listed my L1 Panasonic (unmodified).