Charging that Electric Car Could Cost More Than Tank of Gas

[Yanquetino]

IMHO, companies like 350Green are kidding themselves with these prices. They are evidently thinking that they can step into the oil industry's shoes to profit from our need for "fuel."

Heck, with Ingineer's L1-to-L2 upgrade, you could charge up at any RV Park, likely for a buck or even free. After all, with a 3.3kW charger on a 240V outlet, and at 15¢/kW, an hour of charging only costs about 50¢. Moreover, in time businesses like McDonalds, Wal-Mart, shopping malls, theaters, etc., will offer free charging to their customers, simply to lure them inside --just like we have witnessed with Wi-Fi internet connections.

 

[rpmdk]

It's really difficult to say what will happen in the future. As battery capacity gets better, the need for on the road charging will decrease. In 5 to 10 years it might not make much sense to build a charging infrastructure. A few companies will be able to set up private charge stations to service EVs coming long distances, maybe a modest cost for L2 charging and L3 at equivalent gas prices. There will be places where it makes sense to put in charge stations, state parks, shopping centers etc. but convenience everywhere we want to go might be asking way too much.

 

[Yanquetino]

It's really difficult to say what will happen in the future. As battery capacity gets better, the need for on the road charging will decrease. In 5 to 10 years it might not make much sense to build a charging infrastructure. A few companies will be able to set up private charge stations to service EVs coming long distances, maybe a modest cost for L2 charging and L3 at equivalent gas prices. There will be places where it makes sense to put in charge stations, state parks, shopping centers etc. but convenience everywhere we want to go might be asking way too much.

Yes, such a scenario is definitely a possibility. If EVs all had a range similar to a top-of-the-line Model S, with L3 chargers along Interstates, and L2 chargers at motels, even an occasional long distance trip to visit Grandma would be entirely feasible. Let's hope that's what the future holds!

 

[mdh]

It's really difficult to say what will happen in the future. As battery capacity gets better, the need for on the road charging will decrease. In 5 to 10 years it might not make much sense to build a charging infrastructure. A few companies will be able to set up private charge stations to service EVs coming long distances, maybe a modest cost for L2 charging and L3 at equivalent gas prices. There will be places where it makes sense to put in charge stations, state parks, shopping centers etc. but convenience everywhere we want to go might be asking way too much.

Yes, such a scenario is definitely a possibility. If EVs all had a range similar to a top-of-the-line Model S, with L3 chargers along Interstates, and L2 chargers at motels, even an occasional long distance trip to visit Grandma would be entirely feasible. Let's hope that's what the future holds!

Do you think the 3.3 vs 6.6 charger is a big issue if QC systems start to get deployed?

I wonder if there will be after market 6.6 upgrade kits that won't kill your battery warranty?

 

[davewill]

Do you think the 3.3 vs 6.6 charger is a big issue if QC systems start to get deployed?
I wonder if there will be after market 6.6 upgrade kits that won't kill your battery warranty?

QC bypasses the on-board charger, so a good QC infrastructure could make the 3.3kw charger in the LEAF a non-issue. Charging at 6.6kw is no strain on the battery, indeed Nissan has announced one for 2013, so I can't see it being a warranty problem.

 

[smkettner]

After all, with a 3.3kW charger on a 240V outlet, and at 15¢/kW, an hour of charging only costs about 50¢. Moreover, in time businesses like McDonalds, Wal-Mart, shopping malls, theaters, etc., will offer free charging to their customers, simply to lure them inside --just like we have witnessed with Wi-Fi internet connections.

Even $1 per hour would cover the newer vehicles that charge at 6.6 kW and might be tolerated by us 3.3 kW vehicles. I would think the profit would be to have us linger in the store a bit longer rather than just grab a single item and leave asap. The other trouble is paying $1 and only using it for 20 minutes, again I would have to pass.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

affordable 300 mile cars are probably a decade away. a charging infrastructure could eliminate the need for that much range but even if 300 miles was an option, would still need the infrastructure

 

[rpmdk]

affordable 150 mile cars might only be 3-5 years away, making infrastructure investments now less compelling

 

[mdh]

affordable 150 mile cars might only be 3-5 years away, making infrastructure investments now less compelling

do you think nissan will offer battery upgrade options for more range?

When will we see QC options?

 

[KeiJidosha]

Heck, with Ingineer's L1-to-L2 upgrade, you could charge up at any RV Park, likely for a buck or even free.

More like $5-$20. But priceless in the EVSE wilderness.

 

[rpmdk]

affordable 150 mile cars might only be 3-5 years away, making infrastructure investments now less compelling

do you think nissan will offer battery upgrade options for more range?

When will we see QC options?

I honestly have no idea - but here's my addition to all this idle speculation:
Upgrading would be too expensive to be practical, but who knows what will happen when that TN plant gets rolling.

 

[Yanquetino]

Heck, with Ingineer's L1-to-L2 upgrade, you could charge up at any RV Park, likely for a buck or even free.

More like $5-$20. But priceless in the EVSE wilderness.

Hmmm... could be! Once the RV Parks catch on that, for now, they have a monopoly on the service! I suppose it would depend upon how "green" the individual owner is --perhaps a likely possibility among camping aficionados...?

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'd pay $4 for L3 QC but L2 just would not be compelling. I never need to spend 1.5 hrs at a walgreens. We've already got free L2 at dealerships and I've used them only twice because electricity is so cheap at home it just doesn't make going out of the way for it worth it even when it's free, unless I'm far from home, which is rare.

I did get the impression that a considerable number of the Walgreens stations would be L3.

oh, and there's more to the article which is interesting:

"Farkas said the Car Charging Group plans to soon unveil a subscription model in the approximately 22 states that have deregulated electricity. Under that plan, you could pay a flat monthly rate for unlimited charging, both at home and from public chargers the company installed. That’s a kilowatt-hour model, since the monthly fee would be based on local electricity rates. NRG Energy, the third Walgreens partner, has already unveiled a similar model for consumers in Texas."

g

 

[garygid]

Any charging that is not dependably available ... is not really an important part of the EV equation.

Dependable Home, possibly Work, and well-located QC stations will be the main (and key) elements, in my opinion.

If one cannot depend upon convenience charging, only a few will risk depending upon it to get back home. If there is a dependable Plan B (that might cost more), then inexpensive convenience charging would have a place.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"Farkas said the Car Charging Group plans to soon unveil a subscription model in the approximately 22 states that have deregulated electricity. Under that plan, you could pay a flat monthly rate for unlimited charging, both at home and from public chargers the company installed. That’s a kilowatt-hour model, since the monthly fee would be based on local electricity rates. NRG Energy, the third Walgreens partner, has already unveiled a similar model for consumers in Texas."

g

too bad business models cant be patented because this is EXACTLY the proposal that Better Place is working on now

 

[rpmdk]

I don't see why electricity needs to be deregulated for this model to work. Why should the public give up a utility so some billionaire in Texas can sell their energy back to them?

I get that private companies can be more efficient than public holdings, but that's because they're squeezing worker's wages and benefits and gouging consumers wherever they can get away with it. I would much rather see public ownership of electricity.

 

[Randy3]

The more I drive the car and read the posts of people's charging adventures, I hung out downtown for a few hours while I charged (there's a lot to do!), I limped to Nissan such and such and chatted with the sales rep while I charged (he's a great guy and Nissan such and such is a fine establishment!), it was a nail biter getting home, but I made it with a mile or two to spare - the more I want a bigger and better battery. I'm coming to believe a charging infrastructure will certainly be helpful, but really if you could leave the house knowing you have 200 miles - then most of our issues are resolved.

There will be the times when you want to go further, and hopefully the infrastructure will be there, but I think the batteries will improve faster than the infrastructure.

I do some of those things. Mostly, I do them to see what the car can do with what it has today. And I do them to see how I can change to fit into the new reality. For instance, I now see almost every RV park as a possible charging location. We need to be seen out there to be noticed (and get the infrastructure going).

But I am also optimistic that sometime in the future, I'll be able to either add to my current battery or swap it out for a reasonable price and get twice the mileage.

 

[eMaS]

City of Martinez, CA had a $4 per charge (L2 Coulomb) cost - no matter how long one would stay. Now the city analyst told me that nobody charges and that they have lowered the price down to $2. And my guess is that it will go down even more - hardly anybody will charge unless in an emergency situation.
This will happen to a lot of places that think they will earn big bucks as promised by some charger manufacturers.

 

[Mx5racer]

I can't believe that anyone will be offering $4, L3 charging any time soon. If this was offered to be a commercially viable option I would expect that we will see a price closer to $20. Inverstors are going to want to make their money back now.

 

[Caracalover]

I have to say that I use off site charging very rarely, and even when I do, it is just because it is there, not because it is free or that I need it. I live on 110 so charging at 220 or on a L2 is great when I do.

Having said that, I would pay $4 to charge. A covered parking space in a secure area, I see it as worth the cost. A premium space that advertises the EV movement? Totally worth it. I use the EV spaces at Costco, even though I can't charge!

In the business's defense, we need to keep in mind that some energy companies charge by the amount of electricity used, so a store coud easliy be paying 30 or more cents a KWH by the end of the month, go look at the rates for Edison tier 5. That is why late night charging costs less - so if you need to charge during peak hours, pay more per mile than gas - you still are going to end up paying less overall, unless this is the only place/time you can charge - which it will never be.

I am not rich, but I am not cheap either. It is part of the society I love that allows people to make money by offering convenience. I salute Walgreens and hope that more places offer a plug for a cost, anything under 5$ I would consider reasonable or even cheap - I paid $15 to park near a comedy club the other night and didn't get to charge at all. If they had a home charger 110 j1772 there, it would have been sweet. I don't carrry my 110 charger with me, and feel uncomfortable leaving it plugged in to unsecured outlets, so any port would be welcome if I did happen to plan poorly or run a few extra errands. If it is too cheap, more roads will have to be built, since we all will be out joy riding all the time! More roads we don't need.