2011 TAX TIME Questions

[planet4ever]

After I explained why, the lady I was speaking with did some research, and concluded that if I did not get a 1099-G for my CA CRVP rebate then I would not have to report it as income.

This is a practical answer -- without a 1099 there is no record of your receiving anything so they won't know about it -- but you'd never get a 1099-G for a CARB rebate. A 1099-G has to do with state taxes which were paid in a previous year and then refunded.

I think the "G" is a mental lapse on my part. As closely as I can recall, the conversation went like this:
IRS: "Did you get a 1099 for this?"
Me: "No, if I had, I would have assumed it was income. Since I didn't, I don't know."
IRS: "Can you hold while I research this a bit?"
Me: "Yes."
...
IRS: "Since you didn't get a 1099 in this case, you should treat the rebate as non-taxable."

Ray

 

[kieodadie]

I just had my taxes done today but my accountant was unable to figure out what form to use. He used form 8836 and it' only figured out $2500 credit. I explained that people at this forum are using form 8911 but he couldn't find it. Also, what form are we supposed to use?

 

[thankyouOB]

I just had my taxes done today but my accountant was unable to figure out what form to use. He used form 8836 and it' only figured out $2500 credit. I explained that people at this forum are using form 8911 but he couldn't find it. Also, what form are we supposed to use?

i wonder about anyone, let alone an accountant who cant find the right federal form.
you can google any one of them, using the words form irs and the number. they come right up with a lot of supporting information, too.

is he an accountant and or someone who just does income tax filing?

 

[planet4ever]

I just had my taxes done today but my accountant was unable to figure out what form to use. He used form 8836 and it' only figured out $2500 credit. I explained that people at this forum are using form 8911 but he couldn't find it. Also, what form are we supposed to use?

I assume you mean 8834. So far as I know, there is no 8836. But this story is hard to believe, since right at the top of form 8834 it says:

Note.
• Use this form to claim the credit for certain two- or three-wheeled vehicles or low-speed four-wheeled plug-in electric vehicles.
• Claim the credit for certain other plug-in electric vehicles on Form 8936.

How could the accountant not have seen that? Or maybe he thinks 95 mph is low speed ...

Incidentally, 8911 is for the EVSE, not the car, and the chances are very poor that it will do you any good.

Ray

 

[dgpcolorado]

I just had my taxes done today but my accountant was unable to figure out what form to use. He used form 8836 and it' only figured out $2500 credit. I explained that people at this forum are using form 8911 but he couldn't find it. Also, what form are we supposed to use?

That is the correct form but the wrong number for line 4.
Form 8936
Instructions for line 4:

Line 4
Tentative Credit
Enter the credit allowable for the year, make, and model
of vehicle you entered on line 1. You can generally rely on
the manufacturer’s (or domestic distributor’s) certification
of the credit allowable as explained above.
Tentative credit amounts acknowledged by the IRS are
available at
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=214841,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Or
you can visit IRS.gov and search for “Plug-in Electric
Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and 30D).”

Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D)

Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles (IRC 30D) and
Plug-in Electric Vehicles (IRC 30)

Updated: 05-24-11

Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles (IRC 30D)
Internal Revenue Code Section 30D provides a credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles including passenger vehicles and light trucks. Some low speed vehicles may qualify for the credit if acquired prior to January 1, 2010.

For vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

The credit begins to phase out for a manufacturer’s vehicles when at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009). For additional information see Notice 2009-89.

The qualified plug-in electric drive credit under IRC Section 30D no longer applies to low speed vehicles. However, the credit under section 30, discussed below, applies to certain low speed vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009...

 

[baumgrenze]

Thanks for helping me see (but not really understand) why TTax rejected my attempt to claim the $183 I paid to have an EV Project Blink installed. I'm grateful that we are out-of-pocket so very little as we are living on Social Security, a small (<$20,000/year) fixed corporate pension (no added benefits) and 401 (k) Required Minimum Distributions.

It is curious to me that the AMT came to us because in 1969, 155 high income households paid no federal income tax. Something similar apparently still applies today, but a growing segment of the middle-class are living in the shadow of the AMT every year. For those who are curious, there is a good, explanation at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Minimum_Tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was from the History section that I got the info in the paragraph above.

 

[rslatkin]

I am using the Free File Fillable Forms to e-file, and I am getting a reject message about form 8936 that I do not understand. Can anyone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong? Here is the message:

"1279 - Form 8936 - When Add Cols (a) and (b) on Line 6 and/or Personal Use Part of Credit are significant, then Year of Vehicle 1, Make of Vehicle 1, Model of Vehicle 1, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (Vehicle 1) And Date Vehicle Placed in Service 1 must also be significant."

Here is how I filled out Form 8936:
Line 1: 2012 Nissan Leaf
Line 2: JN1AZ0CP6CT015112
Line 3: 12/09/2011
Line 4: 7,500.
Line 10: 7,500.
Line 12: <my tax amount>
Line 14: <my tax amount>
Line 15: 7,500.

Does anyone know what the problem is?

 

[garygid]

I am guessing:

Are the "Business" lines 5 and 6 blank, or "0" (zero)?

If zero, complete that section with zeros where needed?

 

[rslatkin]

I am guessing:

Are the "Business" lines 5 and 6 blank, or "0" (zero)?

If zero, complete that section with zeros where needed?

I have tried it both ways. Originally I left lines 5 and 6 blank.

Now I have:

Line 5: 0.0000 (zeros to the right of the decimal filled in by the form)
Line 6: 0. (automatically calculated)

 

[planet4ever]

Here is the message:
"1279 - Form 8936 - When Add Cols (a) and (b) on Line 6 and/or Personal Use Part of Credit are significant, then Year of Vehicle 1, Make of Vehicle 1, Model of Vehicle 1, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (Vehicle 1) And Date Vehicle Placed in Service 1 must also be significant."
<snip>
Line 1: 2012 Nissan Leaf

I have a vague recollection that someone said some of the tax programs don't recognize the 2012 model as qualifying. I'd try a different tax program. (Well, actually, I would, and do, avoid all tax programs.)

Ray

 

[rslatkin]

Here is the message:
"1279 - Form 8936 - When Add Cols (a) and (b) on Line 6 and/or Personal Use Part of Credit are significant, then Year of Vehicle 1, Make of Vehicle 1, Model of Vehicle 1, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (Vehicle 1) And Date Vehicle Placed in Service 1 must also be significant."
<snip>
Line 1: 2012 Nissan Leaf

I have a vague recollection that someone said some of the tax programs don't recognize the 2012 model as qualifying. I'd try a different tax program. (Well, actually, I would, and do, avoid all tax programs.)

Ray

Free File Fillable Forms isn't exactly a tax program. It's the tax forms available online to fill in and it does some limited math for you. It is (afaik) the only way for people over a certain income limit to e-file for free.

Has anyone e-filed with the 2012 model year filled in successfully?

 

[harryjpowell]

Just a heads up if your using Turbo Tax. We claimed the EV 7500$ credit, Form 8936, and TT calculated everything and said we didn't owe AMT. Submit our return and our refund was thousands short... 3 hrs on hold with the IRS and they said that something about AMT reducing the line 54 credit on the 1040. We never had AMT before so I didn't thing TT would be wrong.

Letter from the IRS said " We changed the total credits on line 54 of your 1040. Some credits are limited to the difference between your tax before credits and the tentative minimum tax from Form 6251, AMT-individuals. Although you were not liable for this additional tax, your credits were still subject to the limitations."

Talk/chatted with Turbo Tax whos online system still calcs and say we owe no AMT. They said they might submit a defect report..

All the law I've read said the Leaf 7500 credit is not limited by AMT and offsets any AMT amount 100%.

So long story short I don't know if the IRS reason is exactly right, but calculating form 6251 by hand matched the IRS AMT amount added back in and Turbo Tax Online incorrectly calculated AMT.

IF you haven't yet filed or are waiting for a return you might go back and check your AMT calc yourself to not be surprised!

 

[linkim]

Just a heads up if your using Turbo Tax. We claimed the EV 7500$ credit, Form 8936, and TT calculated everything and said we didn't owe AMT. Submit our return and our refund was thousands short... 3 hrs on hold with the IRS and they said that something about AMT reducing the line 54 credit on the 1040. We never had AMT before so I didn't thing TT would be wrong.

I have not filed yet using TurboTax so thanks for the heads up - still waiting for some more documentation.
Where did you file? I wonder if some of the regional IRS offices are more "up-to-date" with the 7500 credit/AMT than others. Hopefully when I file in California, the regional IRS will handle the credit with no problem.

 

[garygid]

TurboTax apparently released an update to fix
an AMT form problem mid Jan 2012.

Is this a second AMT form problem, or just with the on-line version
and not with the purchased version (with updates applied)?

 

[planet4ever]

Letter from the IRS said " We changed the total credits on line 54 of your 1040. Some credits are limited to the difference between your tax before credits and the tentative minimum tax from Form 6251, AMT-individuals. Although you were not liable for this additional tax, your credits were still subject to the limitations."

Well, this sounds pretty clear, and either the IRS computers have a bug, or there was a GIGO problem, or they are saying you don't owe AMT but you are claiming credits that are limited by it. Did you verify what Turbo Tax did for line 53? It should have checked c only and listed only 8936 there, with $7,500 as the value on the line. Was line 54 also $7,500? If not, then it is some other credits the IRS is really complaining about.

So long story short I don't know if the IRS reason is exactly right, but calculating form 6251 by hand matched the IRS AMT amount added back in.

All the law I've read said the Leaf 7500 credit is not limited by AMT and offsets any AMT amount 100%.

Those two statements are not contradictory. If it turns out you really do owe AMT, then the difference between what you got and what you expected is just the AMT, and has nothing to do with the EV credit. You still got the $7,500 credit; it was just subtracted from a higher base on line 46. But of course that means that not only does Turbo Tax have a bug (or you gave it bad data), but also that the IRS computer that wrote the letter (or the human that triggered it) was totally confused.

Ray

 

[rslatkin]

Here is the message:
"1279 - Form 8936 - When Add Cols (a) and (b) on Line 6 and/or Personal Use Part of Credit are significant, then Year of Vehicle 1, Make of Vehicle 1, Model of Vehicle 1, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (Vehicle 1) And Date Vehicle Placed in Service 1 must also be significant."
<snip>
Line 1: 2012 Nissan Leaf

We figured out our issue with Form 8936. I had been listing the year make model on one line. It actually should be three lines, like this, with the Leaf listed on the bottom line labeled Line 1.

   2012
   Nissan
1  Leaf

 

[WWBD]

So unfortunately, I had already purchased H&R Block At Home and gotten to the end when I realized there was no form 8936. I would suck it up and buy Turbotax instead if I didn't already have to file by snail mail for a stupid stock/securities issue. Anyway, I'm a little confused on how to proceed. I've finished my return, and now I'm planning to print it out and attach 8936 (along the other form I needed for my stock issue). However, I think I need to make some adjustment in the H&R Block software to account for the $7500 credit they are not aware of. Where do I make that adjustment before printing.

Second question, this is the first time I've hit the AMT before (not fun). From what I've read, I can still get the $7500 leaf credit regardless of my AMT status. H&R Block tells me I have $2200 in AMT tax due. Would the $7500 credit help me avoid the AMT in any way? H&R Block is obviously of no help here because they don't include Form 8936.

 

[TLeaf]

Having just mailed in my H&R Block-completed return last week, here's what I remember of the process:
- fill out Form 8936 electronically (pdf found on IRS website) and print it out
- open up your return and click "Forms" along the top bar and open Form 1040 (or whatever your main form is)
- manually change line 53 (or was it 54?) by clicking on the toggle box next to the fill-in-the-blank line item
- enter in Form 8936 on the fill-in-the-blank line item
- you'll also need to enter in the dollar amount of the credit as identified on Form 8936
- print, sign & mail!

The instructions on Form 8936 tell you the process (and even the order in which to attach the form to your overall return), so the hardest part of this is just getting used to how H&R Block handles manual data entry. Though I'm not sure if this process would resolve any AMT issues, I thankfully didn't have to worry about AMT this year so it worked out great for me.

 

[planet4ever]

Second question, this is the first time I've hit the AMT before (not fun). From what I've read, I can still get the $7500 leaf credit regardless of my AMT status. H&R Block tells me I have $2200 in AMT tax due. Would the $7500 credit help me avoid the AMT in any way? H&R Block is obviously of no help here because they don't include Form 8936.

No, tax credits never help you avoid AMT. They can help alleviate some of the financial pain associated with it.

Ray

 

[WWBD]

Thank you! Very clear instructions. Boy I tell you, I used to never mind doing my taxes until this year. Now I've hit the AMT for the first time and the whole thing has turned into quite a nightmare.