12 Volt Lead Acid Battery Replacement

[smkettner]

I ended just replacing with a deep cycle AGM (Optima Yellowtop). Nice fit and being deep cycle should help it cope with the Leaf's tendency to neglect it.

The AGM will also charge faster and gain more charge in the limited time vs the standard oem wet cell.

 

[Nubo]

Just curious has anyone tried to gain an extra 0.5-2kw of power by upgrading the 12v battery to a 14v 7 cell lead acid or similar?

I plan on testing this if I buy a Leaf/Volt by getting a 200ahr+ set of seven 2v lead acid cells, this should keep the DC_DC shut off until the battery is flat (70%dod)

The power draw of the 12V system is a minor impact to range. Hardly worth the hassle of manually charging a 200AH pack in-between drives. And when you tack on the weight penalty of 200AH worth of lead/acid battery (and associated cabling and hold-down system) the benefit shrinks further, and that is not even going into the negative effects on tires, suspension and handling.

 

[LeftieBiker]

This frigid weather (in large areas of North America) is a good time to top off the charge in the accessory battery. Mine was reading 12.38 volts today, not long after the car was driven. Constant use of the steering wheel heater and seat heater(s) probably helps to drain it more than usual, on top of the reduced capacity caused by cold weather. So again, it's a good time to recharge it fully, and to top off the washer fluid reservoir as well. (And good luck doing that without overfilling it!) I put in a wired connection that can be used by both the Diehard 2 amp and Battery tender Jr. 0.75 amp maintainers, and I'm glad I did. I just wish Nissan had thought more about people wearing gloves when they decided how easy to make access to the inner hood release with the charge port open...

 

[QueenBee]

This frigid weather (in large areas of North America) is a good time to top off the charge in the accessory battery. Mine was reading 12.38 volts today, not long after the car was driven. Constant use of the steering wheel heater and seat heater(s) probably helps to drain it more than usual, on top of the reduced capacity caused by cold weather. So again, it's a good time to recharge it fully, and to top off the washer fluid reservoir as well. (And good luck doing that without overfilling it!) I put in a wired connection that can be used by both the Diehard 2 amp and Battery tender Jr. 0.75 amp maintainers, and I'm glad I did. I just wish Nissan had thought more about people wearing gloves when they decided how easy to make access to the inner hood release with the charge port open...

Note that your reading of 12.38 doesn't have any indication of the SOC or health of the battery since this was done with a load on it. In order to actually determine the SOC by simply measuring the voltage you first need to disconnect it and let it rest for many many hours. In order to measure the health/capacity you would first charge it to 100% and then disconnect and let it rest. Based on the fully charged resting voltage you could determine how much capacity it still has.

 

[LeftieBiker]

As long as the car has been sitting for at least an hour, a simple reading from the battery gives good enough accuracy for the purpose of keeping it charged. No need to disconnect it and lose your stereo and other settings.

For those about to install a simple hardwired connection for a battery maintainer, remember to use the DC/DC converter housing or other good ground, rather than the negative terminal on the battery, which may be problematic.

 

[Turbo3]

Anyone try the 12v battery from Costco?

Item 12881 $71.99 + $9 core
Group 51R so looks like same size and post positions as Nissan Leaf original.
36 month Free replacement
100 month Limited warranty (prorated)
CCA 500
Reserve Cap 85

They list it as a replacement for the Optima YellowTop D51R which TickTock is using (But not AGM deep cycle just standard Lead Acid).

 

[DjDemonD]

If just using it were "abusing" the car, it wouldn't have an accessory mode. The car needs a larger 12 volt battery.

Not at all. In fact, I replaced the 40+ AHr (stock) battery with ~20 AHr Lithium battery and have had NO PROBLEMS. Remember, you can't discharge Lead Acid <50%, so you have to "over-size" the battery. In addition, the charging profile of the Leaf (a short time @14.1v and then steady-state 13.0v) works quite well with my LiFePO4 (you don't want to apply >14.5v or so to the cells).

How have you been getting on with your 20Ah Lithium battery, I would like to do this myself? May I ask what battery did you go for?

 

[Stanton]

If just using it were "abusing" the car, it wouldn't have an accessory mode. The car needs a larger 12 volt battery.

Not at all. In fact, I replaced the 40+ AHr (stock) battery with ~20 AHr Lithium battery and have had NO PROBLEMS. Remember, you can't discharge Lead Acid <50%, so you have to "over-size" the battery. In addition, the charging profile of the Leaf (a short time @14.1v and then steady-state 13.0v) works quite well with my LiFePO4 (you don't want to apply >14.5v or so to the cells).

How have you been getting on with your 20Ah Lithium battery, I would like to do this myself? May I ask what battery did you go for?

It's been great! Not a single problem: hot, cold, it doesn't matter how long it sits. Read my (old) blog post that includes a link to the Lithium Pros 12v battery I purchased.

 

[DjDemonD]

My only reservation about lithium ion as a replacement for the lead acid, is to do with float charging which is normal for lead acid batteries but harmful for lithium ion.

Does anyone know precisely the charging algorithm the Nissan Leaf adopts when charging its lead acid battery? I understand that the car charges it every five days if not being driven, but what about the car is on charge, or during normal driving?

Do the battery management systems supplied with (or internally fitted) to automotive lithium batteries which are designed to replace lead acid, shut off the charging at the ideal 4.2v or do they allow float charging? I presume they do not allow it or overcharging, if designed for vehicle applications, as this is the main safety risk.

Furthermore would the leaf report a battery fault when this BMS system kicks in and shuts off the charge?

I am considering this battery http://store.starkpower.com/12V-20AhStarkPower-UltraEnergy-Lithium-Ion-Battery-LiFePO-Energy-Storage-Battery_p_23.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but I need to find out a bit more as I would have to import one from the states to the UK and pay $350 inc shipping, and support would be tricky if I had problems. I would have to adapt the terminals to fit.

 

[knightmb]

Furthermore would the leaf report a battery fault when this BMS system kicks in and shuts off the charge?

I am considering this battery http://store.starkpower.com/12V-20AhStarkPower-UltraEnergy-Lithium-Ion-Battery-LiFePO-Energy-Storage-Battery_p_23.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but I need to find out a bit more as I would have to import one from the states to the UK and pay $350 inc shipping, and support would be tricky if I had problems. I would have to adapt the terminals to fit.

I've order one of these for my 2013 leaf, the battery is much smaller than the lead, but looking at the hold, a quick trip to the hardware store can get some replacement screws short enough to tighten the bar around it and hold it snug in the battery holder. As far as the connections, I am going to use a small 12 volt sla with some alligator clips to keep the voltage going for the onboard computer while I swap out the batteries to avoid any interruptions, error codes, etc.

As for connecting this battery to the leaf system, at least on mine, the terminal connectors are just screw on attachments, so another trip to the hardware store and I build two connecting cables that will allow one end to attach to the stock leaf connectors and back to the battery using it's different terminals. Should make for a very nice and neat conversion from lead to lithium. I'll post some before and after pictures here when it is finished. :mrgreen:

 

[DjDemonD]

Thanks for your reply, as I couldn't source one of these batteries in the UK I went a different route and wrote it up here:

https://electricjourney.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/lithium-lead-acid-battery-replacement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have so far (3 months) found it totally reliable.

 

[knightmb]

Thanks for your reply, as I couldn't source one of these batteries in the UK I went a different route and wrote it up here:

https://electricjourney.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/lithium-lead-acid-battery-replacement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have so far (3 months) found it totally reliable.

Very nice, I like the box idea. Great pictures!

 

[DjDemonD]

The only reason I did this was that the battery I purchased is not waterproof, although it has a balancer (but no low battery cut-off so I am keeping an eye on the voltage using a cigarette light socket plug in gadget).

 

[Redwomack]

Have recently bought (10/4/15) a "2015" Leaf that actually was built in August 2014. Have been reading posts to this forum regarding 12 volt lead acid battery issues. Recently took Leaf into dealer for software upgrade for brakes. Have had the car try to run away in forward and reverse. Has done it once since dealer brake software upgrade--Campaign P5327 (Intelligent Brake Control Unit). Have checked "12 volt" battery a number of times and found the voltage at 10.50 to 10.65 range. Wondering if this is normal. It wouldn't be normal on a conventional ICE battery. Should be in the 12.26 range at rest, right? Couple of days ago it wouldn't shift into forward or reverse. Read the owners manual for a while. Turned it on and off several times. Sat for a 5 minutes or so reading. Tried it again and it went into forward and I took off.

Could the "low" voltage readings I've gotten be affecting the car's performance? I believe some threads have suggest that it could. I have a Fluke 88 automotive meter VOM so I believe the voltage readings are reliable.

Don't have a garage at home. House is 50' from street where I park. I've only used the Level 1 charger once--up north in Siskiyou County. Actually bought the Leaf in Oregon, Beaverton, near Portland and trailered it back to San Francisco area. Have only been quick charging it at nearby shopping center--Level 3--generally to about 93% SOC. Have an Aerovironment 240 volt charging cord but waiting on electrician to install a 240 volt receptacle at house

Since this Leaf SL was actually built in August 2014, it sat on dealer's lot for about 13 months without being used. Could this have degraded the 12 volt battery? Or is it just not getting properly recharged from the Li-ion battery pack?

Would appreciate feedback.

Will be contacting the local dealer again about these various mysteries.

In Marin county near San Francisco, CA.

 

[QueenBee]

Sitting for that long could have definitely abused the battery if the dealership was properly maintaining it. I suspect when your dealership checks the battery they'll find its bad and replace it under warranty. I don't think you should be seeing voltages that low and seems to me that battery issues could be causing odd computer issues.

 

[Redwomack]

Thanks, Queen Bee, for your reply.

Will post more after I revisit dealer. This Leaf only has about 365 miles so the 12 volt lead acid battery is "new."

A little disappointed dealer didn't really respond to my observations about runaway and low voltage on the 12 volt. I had my foot hard on the brake pedal and the drive power was still pushing the car quickly in forward and reverse. Didn't hit anything. You'd think Nissan--and the dealer-- would be concerned about runaway Leafs.Think of their potential liability for crashes. I quickly took my foot off the brake pedal and reapplied it and then the vehicle disengaged.
What doe this indicate about how the car is programmed to release the drive power when the service brake pedal is applied with fairly aggressive force?

 

[QueenBee]

A lead acid battery that is repeatedly run empty or allowed to sit empty will quickly loose capacity so it's surprising that a low milage car would have this problem.

 

[DjDemonD]

The running away issue is serious and should be addressed I've never heard of a leaf doing this before. Part of the reason for changing the lead acid battery to a lithium one is reliability. Lead acid is not reliable, we've all had a dead battery before and it always causes inconvenience, if this is possibly causing electronic problems on a fully computerised car it needs fixing. Sounds like yours has one dead cell so is showing 10.5v instead of 12.5v.

Definitely a dealer issue once they replace the battery and determine the running away is fixed consider the lithium replacement.

 

[QueenBee]

The running away issue is serious and should be addressed I've never heard of a leaf doing this before. Part of the reason for changing the lead acid battery to a lithium one is reliability. Lead acid is not reliable, we've all had a dead battery before and it always causes inconvenience, if this is possibly causing electronic problems on a fully computerised car it needs fixing. Sounds like yours has one dead cell so is showing 10.5v instead of 12.5v.

Definitely a dealer issue once they replace the battery and determine the running away is fixed consider the lithium replacement.

I'd like to see your MTBF stats that shows any 12 volt lithium battery with charger on the market is higher than that of lead acid batteries. I think you'd find that lead acid batteries are extremely reliable, they just don't have an unlimited lifes, and deep discharges will cause capacity loss. If one were to have their battery tested somewhat regularly and replaced it early and never let it drain to 0% SOC I think the probability of it leaving them stranded is extremely low.

If you want to prevent a dead 12v battery in a LEAF all you need is a small "jump pack" as a backup.

 

[knightmb]

I replaced mine with a lithium and it has been nearly a year of problem free 12 volt battery maintenance. I even use the lithium battery to power external outlets because there will always be enough power to get the Leaf online even in the depleted state from an inverter. I really think the lead acid battery in the Leaf is out of place, they should really just make a small Lithium battery for it and be done. But know there is a market to get rid of the Lead battery and the cost comes down every day as the Lithium batteries get cheaper.

Find more info about my change over here:
http://nissanleaf.guru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6