Nissan Leaf S or S with QC

I'm all set to buy Nissan Leaf S. I know I read here that since I live in Chicago I should get the S with the QC because of a pump. I don't remember the details but do I need the QC? If I do get the QC what do I need to get for my house? Do I need that $400 cable that was linked? The Leaf will travel about 25 miles a day, local roads.

Thanks!

We have 2 2013 Leafs. I have S w/o Quick Charge, wife has SV w Quick Charge. I really regret not having the Quick Charge. It makes longer trips possible (assuming QC stations available in your area). Even w/o available QC stations, the 6.6 kw charger in the SV is much nicer to use (compared to the S base charger at 3.3 kw) if you go home, then go out later in the day. (Typical partial recharge for us is 4hrs for S, 2 hrs for SV). Spend the extra money and get the QC package.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "pump." If you mean the heat pump, it is only on the SV and SL. You can't get it all on the S. The heat pump is sort of good and sort of bad on the SV. The heating portion uses less juice than the plain heater on the S (good) but the AC on the heat pump uses more juice than the plain AC on the S, so if you lived in say Florida, where you used AC nearly all year, the S is a better choice from a climate control situation. In Chicago, I suspect you are better off, climate control wise, with the heat pump in the SV, but since you only travel 25 mi a day, it probably isn't an important difference.

As far as home charging goes, the QC is not an option, they cost in excess of $20,000. Elon Musk probably has one at home for his Tesla, but ordinary mortals don't have one.

At home, most people use what is called L2 charging, that is 240v. Some low mileage users get by with 120 volt charging (called L1 charging), but I don't think you could reasonably do that in Chicago in the winter, even with your low usage. Full charge with 120 volt charging takes about 20 hrs from fully empty to fully charged.

On a related note, I didn't know how much I would miss the cruise control (not available at all on the S). I didn't use cruise control much on my ICE car, but the Leaf is so quiet that maintaining a steady speed is much more difficult than I expected, and you really want to do that if you need the max range, or don't want a speeding ticket. If I had it to do over again, I think I would probably get the SV so I could have cruise control. Don't pay attention to the Nav system on the SV and SL, its worthless. (Well, not worthless, but a generation or two behind decent Nav systems, and Waze on my phone is MUCH better. Also it is poorly designed and very difficult to see in bright light with lots of reflections).

stjohnh has pretty much covered everything, and I agree with all that he said. I just want to add one more point: No level of the 2013 LEAF comes standard with a backup camera. Adding the Charge Package to the S model also gives you a backup camera, but it is displayed on a tiny 4" screen. Adding the Premium Package to the SV or SL gives you four "around view" cameras, displayed on a 7.3" screen. The screen size may not sound like that much of a difference, but you have to square the numbers to compare, so the bigger screen has more than three times the resolution.

You may not think you care about the backup camera, and I didn't either until I got my 2011 LEAF with one camera but the big screen. I came to depend on it and love it. In general I am happy with my 2013 S model, but I really miss cruise control and the big backup camera screen.

Ray

Thank you both. I misunderstood and thought the QC was what I wanted and I really think I need the SV. Unfortunately, I can't find a SV without the premium package and I really don't want to spend extra $ for a backup camera. I know someone said they like it but I have it on my ICE and I never use it. I'm not sure if I should wait and see if a dealer can get one in or just get the S with the QC.

Now I'm confused looking at the SV. I thought it came with the QC but then one of the cars I'm looking at has a QC upgrade. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

r1234567 said:

Now I'm confused looking at the SV. I thought it came with the QC but then one of the cars I'm looking at has a QC upgrade. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

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QC is extra cost upgrade for S and SV. Standard on SL.

I would seriously consider the backup camera, we didn't get it on either of our Leafs and didn't need one on our previous ICE cars, but the Leaf is the most difficult to see out the back of any car I've ever owned. I'm not sure how good the backup cameras are, but I sure wish I could see better when I'm backing up.

I thought that the 6.6 battery was the QC. If I get the SV with the QC do I get a backup camera with it or do I need the premium package?

r1234567 said:

I thought that the 6.6 battery was the QC. If I get the SV with the QC do I get a backup camera with it or do I need the premium package?

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Re chargers, it appears you're still a bit confused.

1. The base S comes with a 3.3 KW, 240 volt (Level 2) On-Board Charger (OBC). This requires a 240 Volt Level 2 EVSE in your garage etc. to charge. All models of LEAF also come with a portable EVSE, which can be plugged into a standard 120V 15 amp receptacle (like the ones in every house), but the maximum charge rate is just 1.44 kW. As an option, the S can be upgraded with QC package, which increases the OBC to 6.0kW, and also includes the receptacle for a CHAdeMO Quick Charger (QC), which can charge up to 50kW at special off-board commercial chargers.

2.The base SV comes with a 6.0kW OBC; Getting the QC option on the SV gives you the Quick Charger receptacle (up t0 50kW DC), which requires a special, commercial-only off-board charger.
The Quick Charger option on the SV also includes LED headlights.

3. The SL comes with both the 6.0kW OBC and the CHAdeMO QC receptacle.

Thank you, this is all so confusing. I will be driving the car about 25 miles a day and I live in Chicago with heat and cold.

So the benefit of the QC is being able to use a charger at a place like Whole Foods? My goal is to charge at home and I thought the QC meant it charges more rapidly. If it only benefits me at a commercial place, then I don't need it.

I was going to get the S to save on costs but it sounds like the SV would be a better option because of the heat pump. The only problem I'm seeing is that none of the dealers around me have the SV without many other upgrades.

The benefit of QC is to make your recharging experience a lot more like refilling your gasoline or diesel powered car. It is useful for extending the usable range of your Leaf, as it can recharge even a fully drained battery to 80% in 30 minutes.

However, most electric car owners and lessees prefer to charge overnight, especially if they subscribed to their utility's off-peak rates. QC was not meant as a primary charging source, and for a while Nissan actually discouraged multiple QC's in one day.

r1234567 said:

Thank you, this is all so confusing. I will be driving the car about 25 miles a day and I live in Chicago with heat and cold. So the benefit of the QC is being able to use a charger at a place like Whole Foods? My goal is to charge at home and I thought the QC meant it charges more rapidly. If it only benefits me at a commercial place, then I don't need it.

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Perhaps a table like this will help you understand. All numbers are rounded, and represent power going into the battery.
At home your choices are 120v and 240v. Away from home you will find a mix of 208v and 240v with a scattering of 400v. The 400v charging can in theory be at up to 48kW, but 30kW is a rough average. It's worth pointing out that if you don't get the Quick Charge port when the car is new, you can't add it later, and you will never be able to use a fast charger.

There is another dimension that I didn't try to show. To use 240v at home you need some sort of EVSE other than the charging cord provided with the car, and those EVSEs are mostly rated from 16 amps to 40 amps. A 16A EVSE limits you to about 3kW, regardless of what charger is built in to the car. You need at least a 30A EVSE to get the 6kW charging rate. But since the battery has only about 21kWh available, you can recharge completely overnight even at 3kW. If you are only driving 25 miles per day, charging at the 3kW rate should take 2-3 hours, depending on weather and how fast you drive.

Ray

Thank you so much. It's finally clicking in. If I go with the S model I still want the QC for the 6.6 battery. If I go SV, I don't think I need the QC since I don't envision charging at QC outside our home. We will still have an ICE so if we are going on longer trips, we would just swap cars for the day.

Before deciding whether or not to get a QC, find out if there are even any quick chargers in your part of the country. When I leased my SL, I paid about $40 extra a month for the QC because there were going to be chargers installed soon at various locations where I would have used them. It did not happen, and most likely will not before my lease ends, so it was a waste of money.

Plugshare shows 17 QC stations in the Chicago area, I think I'd pay the extra if I lived there. Suppose its a cold mid-winter night and your choice is drive home without heat or spend 10min at a QC station...... or even worse, you are using your heat and don't realize home is 2 miles further than you initially thought. Turtle in snowing cold Chicago.... you'd pay a lot to be able to QC then.

stjohnh said:

I think I'd pay the extra if I lived there.

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I totally agree, and I am jealous of all of you with access to QC.

The OP is probably not familiar with Plugshare, so here's the link:

http://www.plugshare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To see where the 208/240 Volt AC (also known as Level 2) EVSEs as well as the ca. 500 Volt DC Quick Chargers in the area, put your cursor over the word "Legend" in the upper right-hand corner of the map - a drop down box will allow you to select between "Residential Chargers", "Public Stations", "High Power Stations" and "In-Use Stations". Un-check the box marked "Residential Chargers" and if you just want to see the QCs in the area, also uncheck the "Public Stations" box.* High-Power Chargers are shown in Orange, Regular (L1 and L2 EVSEs) in Green, and Residential chargers in Blue - these last are private individuals who are willing to let someone else use their EVSE in an emergency. Given the number of public chargers in the Chicago area, you should never need to use one of these, but if you think you might, call ahead first. Finally, center the map and zoom in on Chicago, or else enter the city name and state and/or Zip Code in the search box at the upper left.

Given the number of QCs in the Chicago area, personally I'd go for the QC option. Even if you think you'll never need it it's nice to have, and it will allow you to make shorter out-of-town trips in a LEAF to areas where there's a QC along the way or at the destination, without having to spend hours charging enroute to get there or return.

*Note, in some areas the "High Power Stations" will also include those usable only by Tesla cars. To eliminate those from the map, find the icon that looks like a gear wheel just to the right of the search box, click on it, and then un-check the three bottom boxes which have various types of Tesla Chargers/connectors. The only ones currently in the area are in Normal and Rockford, so you can ignore this step if you wish. You want only the boxes labeled "EV Plug (J1772)", "CHAdeMo", and maybe the "NEMA" (for 240 Volt charging at RV parks, but only if you have an appropriate portable after-market Level 2 [i.e. rated for 208/240 Volt] EVSE) to be checked. CHAdeMO is the QC standard that the Leaf can use (when so equipped). If you're really desperate you can also leave the "Wall Outlet" Box checked, which will show you the locations of standard 120 Volt (also known as Level 1, or L1) receptacles that the public can use, with the portable EVSE that comes with the car. Glacially slow, but better than nothing.

r1234567 said:

Thank you so much. It's finally clicking in. If I go with the S model I still want the QC for the 6.6 battery.

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I hope I didn't confuse you by talking about "power into the battery". The battery itself is the same in all LEAFs. The difference is in the on-board charger. Simple analogy: You want to fill up a swimming pool. If you use a 5/8" hose it will take longer than if you use a 3/4" hose. The charger is like the hose. Nissan refers to the faster one as 6.6kW, but that is based on how much power it can draw from the wall. It actual provides 6.0kW to the battery when running at maximum speed. Since the usable part of a new battery is about 21kWh, it takes about 21 kWh / 6.0 kW = ~3.5 hours to charge the battery from empty to full.

The slower charger provides 3.3kW to the battery, so it would take 21 kWh / 3.3 kW = ~6.4 hours to do the same thing. If you are planning to charge mostly at home, either one will charge completely overnight. And, as I said before, if you are only driving 25 miles a day, either one will probably charge in under 3 hours. So I'm not sure why you think you need the faster charger.

The faster charger is nice if you need a boost away from home but, as others have said, the Quick Charge is much nicer in that situation, where available, and it is quite available in much of Chicago.

Ray