Does using only trickle charger degrade battery life?

Hi,

I am a brand new Leaf owner (just picked up a new 2013 Leaf S model today).

In reading through the owner's manual and quick reference guide, it states that I should avoid regular use of the trickle charger and instead regularly use normal charger.

However, since my wife only plans on driving the vehicle a few miles per day to run errands such, and probably not every day at that, we felt it would not be necessary to purchase the charging station and plan to rely solely on the trickle charger.

My question is: Will using only the trickle charger have a negative effect on the battery life?

Congrats and welcome! Please don't worry about the battery when trickle charging. There are numerous posts on the forum about this. If possible, could you add the approximate geographic location to your profile?

I've trickle charged the last 9k miles. Heat seems to be your enemy. Not trickle charging. I'm fairly mindful where I park. I look for shade trees. I guess quick charging seems to generate a lot of heat.

supra410 said:

I guess quick charging seems to generate a lot of heat.

Click to expand...

Yes, especially as you approach high state of charge. Quick charging past 80% SOC should be generally discouraged. It's not just heat development, the charging speed tapers quite a bit at the end of a QC session, and it might be better to switch to a level 2 charger to finish off.

It is not a trickle charger, it is a 1.4kw L1 charge cable. Trickle charge is something you do to sustain a charge. Nissan loves to spread misinformation and half facts to suit their agendas. Since when is a EVSE a charger? Since Nissan decided to call it that. They need to stop polluting consumers with false information and half truths. Their CS people are fed far too much BS and their marketing people need to catch up to reality very soon. 3.3, 6.6, whatever it takes, it's all the same

I have only been L1 charging my LEAF for 2-1/2 years. I can count the number of times I have L2 charged on 1 hand. I still have 12/12 bars for battery capacity along with 5 out of 5 for all categories for the battery check. There are many factors that can decrease your battery life. From my experience L1 charging is not one of them. Please note, L1 charging is not as efficient at L2 charging but the inefficiencies will never recover the cost of a L2 charger for me. I drive my car an average of 28mi/day.

Trickle charge is something you do to sustain a charge.

Click to expand...

Nit-picking can be dangerous. "Float charge" refers to maintaining a charge, which "trickle charge" can mean either slow-charging or float-maintain...

No.
There was a study of battery degradation as a function of charge rate that some people have referenced that showed very slow charging had a slightly higher degradation rate, but the difference was extremely small and that study was a different battery chemistry, so not relevant on the LEAF battery.
The Nissan manual does recommend against frequent regular use of the 120V EVSE.
But the best guess on why they did that is due to multiple outlets often being on the same circuit, and due to the outlets often times only being on a 15 amp circuit, when use of a 20 amp single use circuit is the better practice. Also there are human performance errors possible with the 120V EVSE that need to be avoided. The 120V EVSE should NEVER be unplugged from the wall while the vehicle is charging, because there will be substantial arc as you unplug it, which is bad for the wall plug and the 120V EVSE male plug. The plug to the car should be unplugged first, because the control contacts break first causing the LEAF to stop the charging by opening the contactor in the 120V EVSE.
It is the better practice when using the 120V EVSE to plug it into the wall first, then plug the cable to the LEAF, and when discontinuing use reverse the process and unplug from the vehicle, and then unplug from the wall.
There have been several reported high risk events where people used portable 120V EVSEs with a bad 120V outlet, or one that had improperly done old aluminum wiring that had not been corrected, and created significant fire hazard and / or damage.
Nissan's manual was just wanting to discourage extensive use to minimize the risks.
Further discussion of the issue at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14123#p321520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
But no risk of the 120V EVSE degrading the LEAF battery life.

Thanks everyone for the information -- it was very helpful.

I think we will stick with the Level 1 Charger, at least for now. Since the vehicle is a 36 month lease, I am not terribly concerned about a minor loss of battery performance. If I were keeping the car longer, then I suppose it might be desirable to invest in a level 2 charger -- or if the time required to recharge the battery were an issue.

dawg6 said:

TSince the vehicle is a 36 month lease, I am not terribly concerned about a minor loss of battery performance.

Click to expand...

Good to hear. If you look at the reports from fellow owners in Florida on the forum, it would be good to anticipate noticeable loss of capacity before the end of the lease period. The battery chemistry was reportedly tweaked in 2013 to address some of those issues, but 2011 and 2012 LEAFs seem to have been affected by the persistently warm weather in Florida.

The only practical difference between L1 and L2 charging is the time it takes... It is the long charging time that leads Nissan not to recommend it, not any affect on battery life.

FYI, what I was able to glean in Phoenix last month is that there is really no appreciable difference in temperature degradation characteristics between the 2013 battery and the 2011/2012...
The mid 2014 "hot battery" will be the first real change in that regard...

TimLee said:

Also there are human performance errors possible with the 120V EVSE that need to be avoided. The 120V EVSE should NEVER be unplugged from the wall while the vehicle is charging, because there will be substantial arc as you unplug it, which is bad for the wall plug and the 120V EVSE male plug. The plug to the car should be unplugged first, because the control contacts break first causing the LEAF to stop the charging by opening the contactor in the 120V EVSE.
It is the better practice when using the 120V EVSE to plug it into the wall first, then plug the cable to the LEAF, and when discontinuing use reverse the process and unplug from the vehicle, and then unplug from the wall.
There have been several reported high risk events where people used portable 120V EVSEs with a bad 120V outlet, or one that had improperly done old aluminum wiring that had not been corrected, and created significant fire hazard and / or damage.

Click to expand...

Lots of good tips here. I would recommend against plugging/unplugging the EVSE unless you really need to as well - will help prevent wear on the outlet. Also, I'd recommend using a 20A circuit if at all possible and periodically checking the plug for heat after 30+ minutes of charging. Charging the car uses a lot more power than your typical appliance plugged into a wall outlet, it's not all that uncommon to have issues with the outlet which could be dangerous which is the main reason Nissan recommends against regular use of L1.

Also, if you only ever drive a few miles, definitely make sure you are using the long-life mode (80%) for charging which will prolong battery life and also improve efficiency while driving, and personally I wouldn't bother charging until you get down under 7-8 bars or know you'll need more range for your trip.

dawg6 said:

I think we will stick with the Level 1 EVSE, at least for now. Since the vehicle is a 36 month lease, I am not terribly concerned about a minor loss of battery performance. If I were keeping the car longer, then I suppose it might be desirable to invest in a level 2 EVSE-- or if the time required to recharge the battery were an issue.

Click to expand...

I've fixed your post. Please get the terminology correct. What you're referring to are EVSEs, NOT chargers. The charger is on-board the car. For the '13, it's under the hood.

See diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TomT said:

The only practical difference between L1 and L2 charging is the time it takes.

Click to expand...

mgoleta has pointed out the other practical difference:

mgoleta said:

Please note, L1 charging is not as efficient at L2 charging but the inefficiencies will never recover the cost of a L2 charger for me. I drive my car an average of 28mi/day.

Click to expand...

As a rule of thumb, for every 10 kWh you put into the battery, you will pay for about 1 kWh extra when charging at 120v.

10 kWh into the battery might take you about 40 miles - more if you drive very efficiently. If your electricity costs 15¢/kWh and you average 40 miles/day that works out to $4 or $5 per month.

Ray

planet4ever said:

10 kWh into the battery might take you about 40 miles - more if you drive very efficiently. If your electricity costs 15¢/kWh and you average 40 miles/day that works out to $4 or $5 per month.

Click to expand...

Off by a factor of 10 on your total price. With the numbers you quoted, it would be $45/month.

swaltner said:

planet4ever said:

10 kWh into the battery might take you about 40 miles - more if you drive very efficiently. If your electricity costs 15¢/kWh and you average 40 miles/day that works out to $4 or $5 per month.

Click to expand...

Off by a factor of 10 on your total price. With the numbers you quoted, it would be $45/month.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see I failed to clarify what "that works out" was referring to. I meant the difference between charging at 120v and charging at 240v would be $4 or $5 per month. Actually, the total cost would be more than $45/month:

• If you charge at 240v, the charging is roughly 85% efficient, so the total electricity cost would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $45/0.85, or somewhere around $53 per month.
• If you charge at 120v, the charging is roughly 75% efficient, so the total electricity cost would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $45/0.75, or roughly $60 per month.

So it looks like my mental calculation was indeed off by a bit. The real difference (in this case) between 120v and 240v appears to be about $6 to $8 per month.

Ray

When we first leased our LEAF back in July I spent a lot of time fretting over whether or not to install a L2 charger at home. Now that we are entering our third month of usage, I can say with 100% confidence that the included L1 charger is completely adequate for our needs and we'll never bother with the hassle and expense of installing a L2 charger at home. We only average about 20 miles per day so YMMV.

I am another one of the L1-only people. Just hit 10,700 miles and last week had my first annual battery test, got 5 stars on everything.

With tax incentives L2 can be quite cheap now but I just very rarely cannot make a trip due to not being able to charge fast enough.

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

I am another one of the L1-only people. Just hit 10,700 miles and last week had my first annual battery test, got 5 stars on everything.

With tax incentives L2 can be quite cheap now but I just very rarely cannot make a trip due to not being able to charge fast enough.

Click to expand...

A bit off-topic, but what does the battery test...test? Capacity, obviously, but what else?

LeftieBiker said:

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

A bit off-topic, but what does the battery test...test? Capacity, obviously, but what else?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The star rating is there essentially as an educational tool and a measure of owner behavior. The capacity indicated equals the capacity bars on the dash, so no real revelation there either. Ingineer has looked behind the curtain to see what might be transmitted to Nissan, and that data appears to be a lot more interesting.