Unable to Restart after using AC (was AC causes failure)

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sdbonez said:
It was over 90 here in SD yesterday and I managed :)

btw, I'm on the phone with Nissan Leaf CC now. I asked them if they could tell me whether my VIN was impacted (knowing full well that this is a developing issue and my service manager, while aware of the problem, didn't yet have a fix or a list of impacted VINs). He went away for a bit and just came back and confirmed to me that yes my VIN #728 IS impacted.
Click to expand...
My wife is the primary driver of Leaf. I am still deciding how to "break the news to her". :)

Perhaps Nissan should put up the list of VINs on their website for affected vehicles.
 
sdbonez said:
It was over 90 here in SD yesterday and I managed :)

btw, I'm on the phone with Nissan Leaf CC now. I asked them if they could tell me whether my VIN was impacted (knowing full well that this is a developing issue and my service manager, while aware of the problem, didn't yet have a fix or a list of impacted VINs). He went away for a bit and just came back and confirmed to me that yes my VIN #728 IS impacted.
Click to expand...

So it's clear at this point that it's still a developing issue inside Nissan (but we already knew that). While CC was very nice (as was I), the information they had was not clear except for the fact of him saying (and me confirming 3 separate times) that my VIN is impacted by this issue. He was going to try and follow-up and work to get me information by Monday... I'm cutting an email to my service manager now as well. I did ask for the whole list of VINs and I did try and narrow to particular delivery dates - neither was successful as this was the first time this guy was learning of it himself and he had to keep talking with someone.

Wish I had more - but that's all I've got.

Nissan, if you're watching:

1. Identify the VINs (sounds like you have)
2. Call those impacted consumers now. Don't wait for Monday, do it today.
3. Tell us specifically what the issue is (e.g., there's an issue with the software on some Leafs which can cause it to go into fail safe mode when the climate control is used)
4. Work to make sure ALL of the service managers have the knowledge and ability to fix the issue (e.g., bad software on recent leafs, ability to update the software)
5. Give us a workaround (e.g., verify that avoiding use of the climate control will keep the car operable) or feel free to continue using it and call roadside assistance in the event of issue)

I'm sure this is what you're doing, Nissan - but please, push the 'gas pedal' on communicating with us.
 
sdbonez said:
sdbonez said:
1. Identify the VINs (sounds like you have)
2. Call those impacted consumers now. Don't wait for Monday, do it today.
3. Tell us specifically what the issue is (e.g., there's an issue with the software on some Leafs which can cause it to go into fail safe mode when the climate control is used)
4. Work to make sure ALL of the service managers have the knowledge and ability to fix the issue (e.g., bad software on recent leafs, ability to update the software)
5. Give us a workaround (e.g., verify that avoiding use of the climate control will keep the car operable) or feel free to continue using it and call roadside assistance in the event of issue)

I'm sure this is what you're doing, Nissan - but please, push the 'gas pedal' on communicating with us.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I'm sure they have to run any communication pretty high up the legal flagpole in both Japan and the USA. They also might be waiting until the first few of us with the fix have a day or two under our belts. Who knows.
 
ok so "about 200" involved. about 258 delivered in March. so i would say that "about" all delivered in March have the issue.

any one beyond that delivery window having the issue?
 
Hello,
I've been following this thread with great interest having been involved with similar problems during the first DFI rollout with Cadillac. I see this as two things happening
1. The high A/C pressures are drawing excessive current. Software error limits / codes need to be reset to allow for a wider range or ramping down current, limiting A/C performance. Simple software fix.
2. The excessive current is exceeding the trace / device limitations and the ground or supply is drifting causing the entire sensor string to go out of limits. Hence the shutdown of the vehicle. The control unit probably sees it as battery overtemp and current leakage to chassis and a host of other codes. Not an easy fix, software can help and lower pressures / current draw will help but neither is a permanent fix. I suspect we will see a recall and maybe the installation of an amplifier module to drive the A/C motor drawing current from another location. It could be EMI interference as the motor draws more current and shielding may be the fix. Could be we all might be affected if it does have a congenital defect.

It reminds me of Cadillacs coming in on the hook back in 1980 and it took a while for us to figure out we had two problems. O2 sensors being ruined by silicone rubber off gassing and a simple ground issue corrupting the entire engine sensor string. And yes, cars would flash the warning lights and go into failsoft mode or quit without warning and have to be towed in. Anyone remember the V8-6-4 in 1981 with all the negative press?
 
Just received an email from my salesperson. Nissan called the dealership today and confirmed that there was a problem and that a software fix is available. We'll find out Monday who it all affects. Thankfully its a cool day. Very impressed with the rapid response from Nissan.
 
You guys saved my butt.

I'd been following this thread with some interest.

This morning I was backing out of the garage, and the RED master fault symbol came on. I then realized somebody had turned on the A/C. I turned the A/C off, and brought the car back into the garage and shut it down. The owners manual has ZERO advice on what to do about this, and I thought I would try the battery disconnect if I couldn't restart.

I called the Leaf CC people, who were tremendous. They had me turn the car back on to confirm which light it was, and we determined the car was still drivable. They recommended I go back to the dealer to check the A/C pressure. I called the dealer, their service dept was open, and they had me come right over. By the time I got there the service manager was waiting for me. Nissan had called them to tell them I was coming and what was necessary.

However, shortly after I started driving to the dealer with A/C off, the red fault light went out !!

Nissan still wants to check the refrigerant pressure, and look at the car, but it would mean being without the car a few days. We agreed that as long as the light doesn't come back on, I can drive it with the A/C off. Next week I will leave the car there to get the full checkout.

My theory is that since I saw the light come on, and instantly turned off the A/C, I was able to prevent going into full shutdown.


It looks like this is affecting a large percentage of the March deliveries.
 
I honestly wish I had time to read this thread before I took delivery of my vehicle on Tue Mar 29th, but I just haven't had time.
I have not had a chance to read through the entire thread, but I am going to briefly post my recent experiences here:

1) Took delivery of my Leaf SL (VIN#00598) on Tue Mar 29th from Fontana Nissan. Drove 42 miles home to Pasadena without incident. It was actually a bit cold so I tried out the heat on my way home. Found it a bit anemic, but did not try A/C. Charged overnight (110V).

2) Wed Mar 30th AM - with a status of about 82 miles, drove my 19 mile commute to work (Covina, CA) - no issues. No AC or heat used. Parked outside immediately behind my office in the sun.

3) Wed Mar 30 1PM - 90 degrees in Covina. Went out to get lunch. 62 miles status listed. AC on. Within about 1 block of driving from work, emergency lights came on, pulled over. Car would no longer go into D or R -- only N or P. Surprisingly, Nissan Roadside Assistance had a towtruck out there in about 30 minutes. Towed it to Performance Nissan in Duarte (closer to home than Fontana) where a very confused but nice service advisor began to work on figuring out what was wrong. All of this was done by phone as I couldn't leave work.

4) Thu Mar 31st - all day long calls and messages from Nissan (Performance, Fontana, corporate) about my issue. I appreciated the attention they gave me as I was seriously concerned I had gotten a lemon here.

5) Fri Apr 1st - Informed of the same issues as described in the thread above. Overfilled refigerant coolant caused a reset of the VCM (vehicle control module) software. Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. I understand it happened, but this seems like something that should have been caught beforehand.

We have driven about another 70 miles since I re-acquired the car. AC has been used intermittently but not much. I'm glad southern california temps are cooling off now, but I can tell you this is a bit nerve-wracking.
As a driver of a MiniE which exhibits issues in the heat, I can understand issues will happen, but it bothers me that we're still at this stage of development with this vehicle. I know we are guinea pigs here, but really couldn't this be figured out before?

Anyways, regardless of what I learn here, I am always going to park that car in the shade if I can. About 1 block from my work there is a nice shady spot I always parked my MiniE under which I will start re-using for the Leaf.
 
palmermd said:
The red fault triangle comes on if any other warning light is lit. If you don't buckle your seatbelt it will be on.
Click to expand...

Seatbelt was on. I saw the fault light come on. I never got a yellow light, so it is indeed possible there is a different cause here, and I've jumped to a conclusion.

Any other causes for a red only master fault ?
 
Hi Folks,

Here's the salient portion of the written info I got from my Nissan service dept when I picked up #531 this morning:

"Found two DTCs in system: P31E7 and P0AA6. Contacted Nissan EV Engineering Dept. Found concern only a software issue. Downloaded new software from Nissan and cleared DTCs. Tested vehicle and confirmed condition no logner present."

Not quite sure what DTC stands for, but in context it seems to be their lingo for an error code.

So glad to have my baby home! :)
 
wq2345 said:
5) Fri Apr 1st - Informed of the same issues as described in the thread above. Overfilled refigerant coolant caused a reset of the VCM (vehicle control module) software. Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. I understand it happened, but this seems like something that should have been caught beforehand.
Click to expand...

If they only adjusted the refrigerant and did not do a software update, expect to have your car back at the dealer very soon, either voluntarily or not.
 
Got my car back with the new software, while it's a little cloudy and not as hot as yesterday, so far it looks really good. I put my girl through her paces trying to pull as much from the battery as I could at one time. I cut down lots of trees, and froze my butt off in the cabin, but so far I've gotten a lot farther than I had in the last 5 days. This looks promising.

In terms of software fixes and testing, it may not seem like it, but this did happen pretty quickly. To think about the test protocols required by the DOT to release new software to a car, they must be insane, and I bet we can all rest assured that there's a new regression test in their suite for this type of scenario.

Edit: Also, I think the thread title could use another mod... AC software causes failure, I'm not convinced that the overcharge would cause this severe issue without the software problem.
 
Here is a quick copy/paste of the service manual about those 2 DTC's. Notice that the A/C compressor is on the list of known causes. Very interesting, they already know this problem exists. I assume the list is all the components powered by the HV battery pack.

Must be a typo "3127" below, no such DTC exists in the manual.

P31E7 RESTART INHIBITION
Description INFOID:0000000006977355
DTC “P3127“ is detected with DTC “P0AA6“. If DTC “P3127“ detected, Perform trouble diagnosis for “P0AA6“.
Refer to EVC-136, "Description".

P0AA6 HIGH VOLTAGE SYSTEM ISOLATION
Description INFOID:0000000006977190
Li-ion battery is equipped with the IR (Insulation resistance) sensing system. VCM receives the IR sensor signal
sent from Li-ion battery controller and monitors the insulation resistance of the high voltage circuit.
DTC Logic INFOID:0000000006977191
P0AA6
HYBRID BATT VOLT SYS ISOLATION
(High voltage circuit insulation is low)
VCM detects a insulation resistance calculated
based on IR sensor signal sent from Li-ion battery is 380 kW or less.
• High voltage harness or connectors
• Electric compressor
• PTC elements heater
• Traction motor
• On-board charger
• Li-ion battery
• DC/DC J/B

Basically we're talking leakage here. If the sensor detects any leakage to chassis (GFCI) the car shuts down to prevent an unwanted electrical "event." They must be working either the A/C drive parameters or the IR sensor sensitivity or both.

Clearing the P31E7 code will allow the car to restart and drive. Notice it is a RESTART INHIBITOR so leaving your Leaf on and driving to the dealer is the right thing to do. The car will not stop suddenly while driving unless the battery, inverter or traction motor are faulting.
Not using the devices with leakage will allow the car to drive unless it's the traction motor, the DC to DC converter/regulator or the battery itself. A software solution may be possible without compromising safety. There are strict criteria for an immersed car I suspect and any fix must meet those demands.
My idea about hi current causing the sensors to go out of range is a distinct possibility.
 
azdre said:
Also, I think the thread title could use another mod... AC software causes failure, I'm not convinced that the overcharge would cause this severe issue without the software problem.
Click to expand...
I have driven the car today for 36.6 miles (round trip); I was driving with cruise control on 60/65/67/72 mph on the HWY. The climate control was on from the moment I started the car. No issues. I did not pre-cool the car this time. I parked the car. I used my Prius windshield shade this time.
Two hours later, I left the store, crossing my finger that the car will take me back home, not to the dealer. And it did while the A/C on. I have to wait until Monday, so I can talk to Nissan again. I just want to know whether I will be stranded in a parking lot again or the car will be disabled while on the Hwy ? There is no way to turn the A/C off with the sun and heat in TX.
Is it a software or a hardware issue? because the temp will be climbing up from now on. We sometimes hit the 110 F mark. Any car in TX without A/C is worthless, it don't matter what brand it is.
 
Cool, sounds like there's a fix already. I wonder if it only applies to certain cars or to all? I'll be sure to ask the Nissan engineers I'm scheduled to meet on Monday (for my iPod issues)...
 

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