2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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You should probably get a battery check, although it may not be necessary despite the warranty language. It's unlikely the replacement battery will be refurbished, although we can't promise anything. Finally, the 40kwh battery is still a big question mark - all we know is it won't have thermal management, unfortunately. It is unlikely that Nissan will make it available as a replacement for earlier packs.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
iPlug said:
Frustrating that many paid more for the 30 kWh battery via purchase or lease, yet now have a range that would be less than had they gone with the 24 kWh battery instead.

Not quite. 30 kwh pack would still have a bit more range.
I fit that category. My 2016 has a capacity of 18.9 KWh by LeafSpy. I could have bought a low mileage 2015 for 10-15K but bought a new SL and even after discounts and rebates it was 25k. In retrospect I would have been a lot better off with a 2015 S
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1761159990621501/ has a report of a someone just having lost their 3rd bar on a 30 kWh '16 SL at 18.8K miles in the Sacramento, CA area, which is a hot area.
 
Yet another report today of a '16 30 kWh 4 bar loser, in Florida at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1762112517192915/ at 22,668 miles.
 
cwerdna said:
Yet another report today of a '16 30 kWh 4 bar loser, in Florida at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1762112517192915/ at 22,668 miles.

My money is on this thread overtakes this one
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&hilit=2011+battery+bar+losses

In record time :(
 
Here is my first year report.

Bought my 2017 Leaf SV Just at the end of 2016 on 12/29
Using an old version of Leaf Spy Lite I recorded
AHr= 81.32 and Hlth = 97.24%

Now, after driving 9500 Miles on 12/29/2017 my readings are:
AHr= 72.68 and Hlth = 86.85%

So about a 10 1/2 percent loss. after 1 year and 9500 Miles.

Occasionally charge to 100% to balance out the cells, but drive it shortly after that.

Taking advantage of the NCTC Card, so
QC Cnt = 145 ( generally charge up to btwn 80-90%, often 85%)
L2 Cnt = 206 (Since I use a timer this number is about double actual charging events)

My garage is facing the West and gets a lot of Summer warming/hot sun in the 90s F.
 
lkkms2 said:
Here is my first year report.

Bought my 2017 Leaf SV Just at the end of 2016 on 12/29
Using an old version of Leaf Spy Lite I recorded
AHr= 81.32 and Hlth = 97.24%

Now, after driving 9500 Miles on 12/29/2017 my readings are:
AHr= 72.68 and Hlth = 86.85%

So about a 10 1/2 percent loss. after 1 year and 9500 Miles.

Occasionally charge to 100% to balance out the cells, but drive it shortly after that.

Taking advantage of the NCTC Card, so
QC Cnt = 145 ( generally charge up to btwn 80-90%, often 85%)
L2 Cnt = 206 (Since I use a timer this number is about double actual charging events)

My garage is facing the West and gets a lot of Summer warming/hot sun in the 90s F.
At that rate you will have capacity close to your 2011 with a new battery. Maybe you should have kept it?
 
It's Jan 1 today and just over two years since I bought my 2016 Leaf. After 38000 miles I'm down to just over 67% SOH. Still showing 10 bars but I expect to lose the third one any day now. I still expect to replace the battery under warranty by June or July. I'm currently at 246 GIDs at full charge or about 19 KWH. I think I need to lose another 25-30 GIDs to qualify for a new battery. That could happen as early as April but I'm betting on June.
 
johnlocke said:
It's Jan 1 today and just over two years since I bought my 2016 Leaf. After 38000 miles I'm down to just over 67% SOH. Still showing 10 bars but I expect to lose the third one any day now. I still expect to replace the battery under warranty by June or July. I'm currently at 246 GIDs at full charge or about 19 KWH. I think I need to lose another 25-30 GIDs to qualify for a new battery. That could happen as early as April but I'm betting on June.
Doesn't that work out to < 60% remaining capacity ?
What happened to the "about 70%, 4 bar loss" warranty Nissan likes to talk about ?
 
SageBrush said:
Doesn't that work out to < 60% remaining capacity ?
Please see my response at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510059#p510059 again.
SageBrush said:
What happened to the "about 70%, 4 bar loss" warranty Nissan likes to talk about ?
The language in the US warranty booklets only refers to bars. It nowhere (that I've found in all the ones I've looked at) gives any sort of mapping of bars vs. % or any sort of warranty by % of remaining capacity.

Besides the table at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior that was in the '11 service manual and removed in later ones w/no explanation (AFAIK), the only references I'm aware of re: 70% are at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11043 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 (search for 70 percent). There might be others (e.g. videos) but I don't have a full list.

Does anyone know if the earlier table has reappeared in any Leaf service manuals or other official Nissan documentation (e.g. TSB)?

I can confirm it's on page MWI-23 of the '11 service manual but couldn't find such a table in the MWI chapter of the '12 nor '13 service manuals.

For the UK, https://www.nissan.co.uk/ownership/nissan-car-warranties.html just talks about bars. Oddly http://corporate-sales.nissan.co.uk/GB/en/fleet-cars/e4businessFAQ.html, says
What happens if the battery life drops or the battery fails?

The battery comes with a 5 year, 60,000-mile warranty. It also comes with a State of Health Guarantee. This means that during this period, we’ll carry out whatever work is necessary, to make sure the battery life is at a minimum of 75% (9 out of 12 bars on the vehicle battery State of Health Meter). It also means that if any of the battery cells happen to fail, we’ll replace them. If you buy the vehicle and lease batteries, then the battery State of Health Guarantee runs for the length of your battery lease agreement.
Nissan's US warranty language is by bars, not by % of capacity remaining, AFAIK. We also have nothing that's been acknowledged by Nissan to represent % capacity remaining. All we have to go by is bars, unfortunately. Nissan can screw w/the mapping of bars vs. % capacity as they please.
 
jbuntz said:
lkkms2 said:
Here is my first year report.

Bought my 2017 Leaf SV Just at the end of 2016 on 12/29
Using an old version of Leaf Spy Lite I recorded
AHr= 81.32 and Hlth = 97.24%

Now, after driving 9500 Miles on 12/29/2017 my readings are:
AHr= 72.68 and Hlth = 86.85%

So about a 10 1/2 percent loss. after 1 year and 9500 Miles.

Occasionally charge to 100% to balance out the cells, but drive it shortly after that.

Taking advantage of the NCTC Card, so
QC Cnt = 145 ( generally charge up to btwn 80-90%, often 85%)
L2 Cnt = 206 (Since I use a timer this number is about double actual charging events)

My garage is facing the West and gets a lot of Summer warming/hot sun in the 90s F.
At that rate you will have capacity close to your 2011 with a new battery. Maybe you should have kept it?

Actually, glad to have sold my 2011 Leaf with new battery to a friend that wanted a used EV, but drove less than I did. She got rid of her old gas gusseler SUV which polluted a lot more for all her short trips.

I have enjoyed the improvements and new features in my 2017 SV with Premium Package.
 
cwerdna said:
Please see my response at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510059#p510059 again.
OK, I read it again. I sort of see where you are coming from but I am not sure why you are uncomfortable with Volt and Amp*hr readings.

As for the battery warranty to percent correlation, your statements regarding written verbiage from Nissan are no doubt accurate; but IIRC Nissan Reps have mentioned the ~ 70% threshold, which is why I keep harping on it. I'll follow up with links if I come across them again.
 
Hey everyone, lately my wife who's been using the LEAF (we tend to swap usage depending on season, I drive it in the Summer) had complained to me about GOM range. Yes, its been cold here in Iowa, but never the less, I broke out leafspy after noticing a capacity bar is missing.

Manf. Date: 11/2015
Delivery Date: 5/13/2016
Delivery Miles: 301
Delivery SOH%: 93

I tracked SOH religiously until mid-October 2016. At that point my wife started using it for the Winter, and she can't be bothered with all that. It went from 93% to 90% by about 5000 miles. After delivery, it SOH actually went UP to 96% until about 2400 miles when it started to decline again.

Current data:

Miles: 14354
AHr: 66.69
SOH%: 84
Hx%: 80.14
QC: 1
L1/L2: 786

The car is a 36mo lease, I just drive the thing. I have a dumb L2 charger at home that doesn't allow for any fancy SOC%, and since Nissan removed it from the software.. .I've not really cared. Our commutes are roughly ~25 miles each way, so I'm not too worried. That said, kinda disappointed and it will be interesting to see where this ends up as time goes on.
 
So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:
 
Gimpster said:
Hey everyone, lately my wife who's been using the LEAF (we tend to swap usage depending on season, I drive it in the Summer) had complained to me about GOM range. Yes, its been cold here in Iowa, but never the less, I broke out leafspy after noticing a capacity bar is missing.

Manf. Date: 11/2015
Delivery Date: 5/13/2016
Delivery Miles: 301
Delivery SOH%: 93

I tracked SOH religiously until mid-October 2016. At that point my wife started using it for the Winter, and she can't be bothered with all that. It went from 93% to 90% by about 5000 miles. After delivery, it SOH actually went UP to 96% until about 2400 miles when it started to decline again.

Current data:

Miles: 14354
AHr: 66.69
SOH%: 84
Hx%: 80.14
QC: 1
L1/L2: 786

The car is a 36mo lease, I just drive the thing. I have a dumb L2 charger at home that doesn't allow for any fancy SOC%, and since Nissan removed it from the software.. .I've not really cared. Our commutes are roughly ~25 miles each way, so I'm not too worried. That said, kinda disappointed and it will be interesting to see where this ends up as time goes on.
For an interesting comparison, here's my car's stats:

Manf. Date: 12/2015
Delivery Date: 3/31/2016
Delivery Miles: 25
Delivery SOH%: 100
Delivery Hx: 97.60
QC: 1
L1/L2: 4

Current data:

Miles: 7112
AHr: 67.79
SOH%: 85.29
Hx%: 80.41
QC: 1
L1/L2: 228

It would seem that I might be on the ragged edge of losing a capacity bar as well. And it is sobering that both our cars have relatively low mileage and yet have experienced such extreme capacity loss. I have a 24-month lease so I at least have the option to return the car in a couple of months.

For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.
 
webeleafowners said:
So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean your battery isn't after you. :)
 
HIOJim said:
webeleafowners said:
So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean your battery isn't after you. :)

:D
 
Well, that's pretty interesting context on your '13! I'm kinda kicking myself now for paying extra per month for the 30 vs 24. We didn't need the range for our commuting use case, and .... well now I'm on my way to owning a 24 anyway.

HIOJim said:
For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.
 
Gimpster said:
Well, that's pretty interesting context on your '13! I'm kinda kicking myself now for paying extra per month for the 30 vs 24. We didn't need the range for our commuting use case, and .... well now I'm on my way to owning a 24 anyway.

HIOJim said:
For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.

There's one bright-side with the 30kwh version - longer battery warranty (8y/100,000 miles). So it's not all doom-n-gloom.
 
Seems like not many updates have been happening to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#Loss_of_four_battery_capacity_bars_.2833.75.25.29 and I don't see any 4 bar 2016 30 kWh losers there yet. (I'd do it if I find some free time...)

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of, so far. Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers or made mistakes. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication.

1) bakermel1, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506782#p506782
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506819#p506819

2) SB, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506613#p506613

3) samrovner, Surprise, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510024#p510024

4) LG, Chandler, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=512503#p512503

5) ST, Orlando, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514452#p514452

6) dfwpev, Dallas, TX, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514659#p514659

7) BB, Lake Buena Vista, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514929#p514929
 
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