smkettner
Well-known member
How many OEM vehicles are produced with an inductive charging system?
I say the era of the paddle died with the EV1.
I say the era of the paddle died with the EV1.
Please provide a source for that, because I don't believe I've ever seen that claim before, especially when the alternative is to use the gas to make electricity. See e.g. https://home.howstuffworks.com/gas-vs-electric-stoves2.htmRegGuheert said:Gas cooking is even less efficient than electric resistance cooking. Do you always prefer fossil fuels over electricity? (Car, range, oven, water heater...)
Sure. Here's one:GRA said:Please provide a source for that, because I don't believe I've ever seen that claim before, especially when the alternative is to use the gas to make electricity. See e.g. https://home.howstuffworks.com/gas-vs-electric-stoves2.htmRegGuheert said:Gas cooking is even less efficient than electric resistance cooking. Do you always prefer fossil fuels over electricity? (Car, range, oven, water heater...)
Now, inductive cooking may be a different matter: https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/which-more-energy-efficient-cooking-gas-or-induction.html
And a gas oven is WAY less efficient than an electric oven since there must be a flow of fresh air through the oven to feed the flame.Jennifer Mitchell-Jackson, while a graduate student at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, measured the energy use of an average microwave oven, an electric stovetop, and a gas stovetop to heat up a mug of water. Turns out that an electric stove uses 25% less electricity than an average microwave oven to heat a mug of water. A gas stove is less efficient and uses more energy than a microwave oven, but depending on the cost of gas, it might cost less to heat a mug of coffee with gas compared to the microwave.
Gasoline-fueled 4WD vehicle. Inefficient gas cooktop and oven. Gas water heater. We get the picture.GRA said:And no, I don't prefer fossil fuels over electricity, I use whichever one best meets my needs and is available, but prefer not using energy first, then using what remains efficiently, then renewable generation. If all three are possible, great. Of course, when I was doing off-grid stuff, I leaned strongly towards renewables instead of fossil fuels, as did my customers, but even there the sequence was the same: First don't use it; 2nd use what you do as efficiently as possible; and finally generate what remains with renewables (whenever possible). Having done the whole solar oven bit in the past, and sold them too, they simply don't fit my lifestyle or circumstances now. They are the exact opposite of a microwave when it comes to convenience, but they are unquestionably the lowest environmental impact as well as the cheapest way to cook.
Thanks, so we have conflicting sources. Now we just need to find some that include all the numbers.RegGuheert said:Sure. Here's one:GRA said:Please provide a source for that, because I don't believe I've ever seen that claim before, especially when the alternative is to use the gas to make electricity. See e.g. https://home.howstuffworks.com/gas-vs-electric-stoves2.htmRegGuheert said:Gas cooking is even less efficient than electric resistance cooking. Do you always prefer fossil fuels over electricity? (Car, range, oven, water heater...)
Now, inductive cooking may be a different matter: https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/which-more-energy-efficient-cooking-gas-or-induction.htmlAnd a gas oven is WAY less efficient than an electric oven since there must be a flow of fresh air through the oven to feed the flame.Jennifer Mitchell-Jackson, while a graduate student at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, measured the energy use of an average microwave oven, an electric stovetop, and a gas stovetop to heat up a mug of water. Turns out that an electric stove uses 25% less electricity than an average microwave oven to heat a mug of water. A gas stove is less efficient and uses more energy than a microwave oven, but depending on the cost of gas, it might cost less to heat a mug of coffee with gas compared to the microwave.
Why yes, that's part of the picture, Reg, but hardly all of it. Bicycle for commuting and local errands beyond walking distance (most routine errands are within .5 mile). Electrified mass transit plus bike for most regional trips. Car sits in driveway for weeks at a time, used less than 3k miles a year (well under 1k this year, owing to constant winter storms and then summer fires that kept me out of the mountains). No flying except for emergencies or bucket list items, until large % of it is renewably fueled (haven't flown anywhere in more than 15 years). Rarely cook (never use the oven, eat out a lot). 120V service only. Live in a 325 sq. ft., well-insulated studio well-sited for passive solar. Have all on/off loads on switched power strips. Don't use outside lights, and only have one on at a time internally (task rather than area lighting whenever possible, and all are CFL at the moment, to be replaced with LEDs as they fail). Use a line for drying clothes, etc. etc.RegGuheert said:Gasoline-fueled 4WD vehicle. Inefficient gas cooktop and oven. Gas water heater. We get the picture.GRA said:And no, I don't prefer fossil fuels over electricity, I use whichever one best meets my needs and is available, but prefer not using energy first, then using what remains efficiently, then renewable generation. If all three are possible, great. Of course, when I was doing off-grid stuff, I leaned strongly towards renewables instead of fossil fuels, as did my customers, but even there the sequence was the same: First don't use it; 2nd use what you do as efficiently as possible; and finally generate what remains with renewables (whenever possible). Having done the whole solar oven bit in the past, and sold them too, they simply don't fit my lifestyle or circumstances now. They are the exact opposite of a microwave when it comes to convenience, but they are unquestionably the lowest environmental impact as well as the cheapest way to cook.
Hey, knock yourself out. I'm certainly not bashful about recommending EVs to people I know who drive ICEs if I think they're a good fit for them, just as I'm not bashful about not recommending an EV if I don't think it's a good fit for someone. When making such recommendations the point is to give good advice for that person, keeping my own personal choices out of it except where needed to explain my reasoning. What I won't do is oversell any product - they're just tools, not the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. That's 42.RegGuheert said:The difference is that I don't go to an ICE car forum each and every day and tell the posters there why I choose to drive an EV.
EVDRIVER said:Efficiency, cost, and installation will drive this. Charge a Tesla and pay for 7kw per charge to loss, no thanks. Not to mention the cost of the sheer waste to the grid that would add up. People use LED lights to save power, good luck making that up with bulb changes. No way would I use it for an EV.
RegGuheert said:And a gas oven is WAY less efficient than an electric oven since there must be a flow of fresh air through the oven to feed the flame. Gas water heater. We get the picture.
If by "stove" you mean "oven", then of course it has an air intake. Otherwise the flame would quickly burn out. That air flows in from the bottom and typically vents behind the burners.rmay635703 said:My gas stove and water heater don’t have an air intake.RegGuheert said:And a gas oven is WAY less efficient than an electric oven since there must be a flow of fresh air through the oven to feed the flame. Gas water heater. We get the picture.
TomT said:+1! It simply caters to the very lazy!
EVDRIVER said:Efficiency, cost, and installation will drive this. Charge a Tesla and pay for 7kw per charge to loss, no thanks. Not to mention the cost of the sheer waste to the grid that would add up. People use LED lights to save power, good luck making that up with bulb changes. No way would I use it for an EV.
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