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OrientExpress
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Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:39 am

Herm wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Now there has been an argument proposed that "Nissan botched its testing badly" for hot weather. I think not, and here is why. They have been doing hot weather testing for quite a while, but most likely using a 100 year high temp average for the hottest area of the US.


Ahh, the old Global Warming excuse.. its ironic that Leafers are fighting GW and just took one on the chin.


Not an excuse at all, just a fact. This year is the hottest it has been in the US since records have been kept. This is an unprecedented year climate-wise, and stuff is going to have issues, especially things whose performance is related to the temperature of the environment it has to operate in.

I would suspect that every manufacturer of equipment that is temperature sensitive is re-evaluating their design criteria.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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vrwl
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Leaf Number: 8597
Location: Northeastern PA/Poconos

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:41 am

aqn wrote:It's 50 reported cases now.


Sorry, but no, that's not quite right...

The people on the "2 Bars Lost" list and on the "3 Bars Lost" list are also on the "1 Bars Lost" list. It's done that way so that we can document the date, mileage, and months owned at the time of each bar lost. So actually, there's only 37 documented cases on our list (those on the 1 bar list), because the people on the 2-bar and 3-bar lists are the same people that are on the 1-bar list. :)
Vicki
2011 Silver SL-Mfg 8/11-Purch 6/12
34000 miles

opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:55 am

aqn wrote:Does anybody have a pic, preferrably higher quality, of a LEAF battery capacity gauge that had lost three bars? Two bars? Thanks.

Here you go. Scott's car. Neither picture was taken the day he lost the bar.

Image

Image

The full-resolution versions are here (as full as I have):

http://www.1opossum.com/temp/scott_3_bars.jpg
http://www.1opossum.com/temp/scott_2_bars.jpg
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

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TomT
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:08 am

Ironically, the last few years it has been cooler here than normal...

Herm wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Now there has been an argument proposed that "Nissan botched its testing badly" for hot weather. I think not, and here is why. They have been doing hot weather testing for quite a while, but most likely using a 100 year high temp average for the hottest area of the US.
Ahh, the old Global Warming excuse.. its ironic that Leafers are fighting GW and just took one on the chin.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at 5 yr lease return.

Now driving a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR FSD.

edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:14 am

Note that, in addition to the obvious association with hot climates, there also seems to be a relationship of relatively high miles driven to bar loss, especially with the two and three bar loss LEAFs.

wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#three_bars

One of the three bar losses has been reported as having occurred at 26k, in only 13 months.

What is the mileage history of the other one, NOC8H18?

Generally, the more miles you put on a LEAF each month, the more high and low states of charge tend to occur, and/or the more battery-heating midday charge events are required, both of which would probably tend to accelerate loss of either available or total battery capacity.

In any case, if you put on miles at a rate to reach 100k miles in far less than eight years, you should expect battery capacity bars to disappear sooner.

Maybe, in addition to failing to anticipate the record US temperatures over the last few years, Nissan also failed to anticipate how many LEAF owners would pile up the miles on what many still consider a "short-range commuter" vehicle.
Last edited by edatoakrun on Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

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OrientExpress
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:17 am

TomT wrote:Ironically, the last few years it has been cooler here than normal...


Yes, about the only folks that are getting a break from the record heat are those on the Western coastline. Temperatures in the Bay Area have been more like Santa Barbara this year and last. But our good fortune is everyone else's curse because of how the jet stream changes are affecting the North American climate currently.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

User avatar
OrientExpress
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Posts: 1420
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:23 am

One of the three bar losses has been reported as having occurred at either 26k, in only 13 months.


Image

2K miles/Mo. is truly an edge case and any vehicle operated that much in such an extreme environment would experience some degradation of its systems. 25K miles/yr. is taxi/law enforcement/delivery van miles.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:30 am

Tucson picked up on the story. They were probably trolling the Phoenix stations. :)

Here's the video. I sent a link to Vicki for the wiki, along with some detail updates for the capacity loss table (not a new line, just details).

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/1905 ... aim-nissan
Last edited by opossum on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

thankyouOB
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:41 am

I get that you are mad at Nissan and feel cheated, but Orient Express makes some sense.
He is not talking to the wall.

The PX crowd IS doing us all a service and I have modulated my charging protocols based on their canary-in-the-coal-mine alerts. I remain curious about the other very-hot-weather cars, however, including those who are not degrading at this high rate.

I am bothered by the lack of response from Nissan. Because I am in a region where this is less of an issue, I am most troubled by Nissan's PR stance on this.
If I am correct, they basically have not said anything other than -- it is normal -- to the 30-40 folks who have experienced rapid pack degradation.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
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frank999
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:05 am

I am in Phoenix and only have less than 8000 miles on my car. Luckily I have not experienced the bar loss problem yet. However, I am VERY concerned. I just found this thread and I apologize for not reading all 150 pages, however, I did spend a few hours last night going through quite a bit of the pages. I have a few questions:

1) For those that have experience the battery bar loss, what was the average or range in battery temperature bars? My battery is usually at 7 bars and sometimes 6 bars. is that an indication that there will be a problem? Were your bars EVER any higher?

2) Anyone consider speaking with a legal expert to see what can be done to get help with this issue or get Nissan to do something? maybe buy back our cars for the price that they said they would be worth?

3) What happened at the Phoenix meeting last night?


Thanks!!!


Francisco

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