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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 171
Location: Phoenix, AZ
In the last few weeks, we've lost one of the 'available' bars (see picture). We've put 17,000 miles on it in 14 months. I immediately called the dealer, and he said it's normal, we'd lose one bar and then won't lose any more, and he's seen it in cars with only 6 months of use. He's had Nissan Engineers evaluate it and it's 'normal'. Battery test from 3/28/2012 was normal, 12 status bars, 5 stars.

At 100% charge, we only get about 3-5 miles now off of the 12th bar. I think I've had 10% drop in range in the last handful of months but I have no evidence to support that. Sometimes my old leadfoot ways return when I least expect it, so I don't want to shout much about overall range, but I "feel" like it's dropped significantly, and the loss of a bar supports that.

Has anyone else seen this? This does not seem like the 'gradual' loss advertised.


EDIT: 7/30/2012
Summary of thread: This is definitely a problem in hot climates. There appears to be NO correlation to car color, air conditioned garages, 80% charging, driving efficiency, miles driven, quick charging, or anything else beside outside ambient temperature. In other words, cars are being treated exactly as outlined in the owner's manual. We personally know at least a dozen leaf owners, many not mentioned below that have lost at least 15% capacity. According to the ScanGuage, the 2 that haven't lost one, are in the 80's and will be losing one soon. Nissan still claims this is normal, gradual loss and not covered under warranty. Phoenix has now seen up to 30% loss in one year, 25,000 miles of driving.

After a news story run on CBS5 Phoenix, Nissan decided to take 6 of the most affected cars out to Casa Grande for testing. Results are not available as of yet.

Also: I updated the title of this thread. 11 bars is the least of our problems at this point!

For an updated list of affected owners, as reported to members of this thread, see the wiki:
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss

For an another summary of some of the topics in this thread, see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694


Last edited by azdre on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:16 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Moonlight Beach
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
This is the first example I've heard of (can you take a photo?). Common belief is that you have to lose a lot of capacity before you see any indication like this. There's one fellow who has 20,000 miles of 100% charge use, and no indication of capacity loss.

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And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Posts: 2362
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
azdre wrote:
Has anyone else seen this? This does not seem like the 'gradual' loss advertised.

I suspect this is normal for the mileage and age of the vehicle. Other things may influence it such as heat, charging to 100% a lot, etc. When I went to get my 1 year inspection recently, they said I'd lost about 2% capacity, but I guess that was not enough to cause a loss of one of the bars on mine yet. I have had mine 1 year and about 9,000 miles.

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Last edited by adric22 on Wed May 09, 2012 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 171
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gbarry42 wrote:
This is the first example I've heard of (can you take a photo?). Common belief is that you have to lose a lot of capacity before you see any indication like this. There's one fellow who has 20,000 miles of 100% charge use, and no indication of capacity loss.



There's 2 links in the post to a photo. I don't have access to a website or ftp site to link directly to the photo. You'll have to click on the FlickR link in the post.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:40 pm
Posts: 608
Location: Lancaster, Ca
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 4122
This is the photo...

Image
photo-3 by azdre, on Flickr

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm
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adric22 wrote:
I suspect this is normal for the mileage and age of the vehicle. Other things may influence it such as heat, charging to 100% a lot, etc. When I went to get my 1 year inspection recently, they said I'd lost about 2% capacity, but I guess that was not enough to cause a loss of one of the bars on mine yet. I have had mine 1 year and about 9,000 miles.

Adric, yes, this would be in line with what we have seen elsewhere. Based on an NRL study and anecdotal data from Leaf owners, one would expect about 2% capacity loss per year, on average. Based on what I have seen and heard here and elsewhere, I would think that calender life will be the major driving factor for battery degradation. By extension, one would expect that ambient temperature and the long-term average state of charge will matter most, not a particular charging protocol.


Last edited by surfingslovak on Wed May 09, 2012 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:28 am
Posts: 171
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I may have found a related post in the Range topic.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=184486


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 1437
Location: Edmond, OK
Either way you slice it not so good new, and if this is gradual, by the time very limited warranty is over we will have 33% capacity left assuming equal bars


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 824
Location: Foster City, CA
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0255
I seem to recall in order for that first bar of the battery status indicator to disappear a sizable chunk of battery capacity would need to be lost. I can't seem to find at the moment what the first bar lost equates to. Anyone recall?

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 5315
You do live in a warm climate which is likely going to age a pack sooner. I would expect Nissan and the dealer to say almost everything besides a wheel falling off or 50% capacity loss in the first six months to be "normal". The arguments over what is gradual will continue but it won't matter in the end. I would certainly get more data on this issue though.


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