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LakeLeaf

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
1,424
Location
South Lake Tahoe, California
This on the updated range information link:

the battery is expected to maintain approximately 80% of its initial capacity after 5 years of normal operation and recommended care, but this is not guaranteed

wonder what that 8 yr / 100,000 mile battery warranty will actually warranty
 
LakeLeaf said:
This on the updated range information link:

the battery is expected to maintain approximately 80% of its initial capacity after 5 years of normal operation and recommended care, but this is not guaranteed

wonder what that 8 yr / 100,000 mile battery warranty will actually warranty


likely a pro-rated warranty on failed cells, based on age.
 
A whole slew of stuff on the battery under Summary: "New vehicle disclaimers"

"For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later."

"C. Data Recorders. The Nissan LEAF is equipped with several data recorders: (1) a data recorder for diagnosing repairs, (2) an Event Data Recorder (“EDR”) that records data in crash or near crash situations, such as an air bag deployment or hitting a road obstacle. The EDR records data related to vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less; and (3) Telematics and recorded vehicle data for features, analysis, and research. The Nissan LEAF records data concerning various vehicle systems, location, driving performance, and operating conditions. Some of this data is transmitted to Nissan through the vehicle onboard CARWINGS (telematics) system. "



I. Carefully consider the characteristics of an all electric vehicle. The Nissan LEAF may not meet your driving needs. This form will alert you to several factors to consider. THE NISSAN LEAF WEBSITE (http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf) CONTAINS ESSENTIAL INFORMATION WHEN MAKING A DECISION ON WHETHER AN ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLE IS RIGHT FOR YOU. READ ITS CONTENTS THOROUGHLY BEFORE ORDERING and call us if you have any questions (1-877- NO GAS EV, 1-877-664-2738).

II. It is important to conserve power (electricity) and plan your charging needs when you drive. The battery pack is the sole source of power to operate the vehicle. A. Charging (3 types with 240V recommended):

Nissan highly recommends a home charger be installed on a dedicated 240V circuit by a professional electrician using an SAE J1772 compliant charging dock. Nissan has contracted with AeroVironment to assist you in purchasing and installing a charger. If you are enrolled in the U.S. government’s EV Project in select markets, ECOtality is the responsible party for the charger and installation.
Although not recommended for regular use, for Trickle charging, a dedicated 120V outlet may be used but: (1) will take much longer than 240V charging; (2) requires use of the supplied charging cord or an SAE J1772 complaint cord; and (3) the outlet should be protected by a dedicated circuit breaker or fuse to protect against electrical hazard.
High voltage or Quick charge is commercially being developed and provides a 440V charge.
Nissan is encouraging the development of public charging infrastructure and compatibility between public charging stations and vehicle charging ports but we cannot ensure this will occur. Nissan cannot assure you that public charging stations will be available in locations where you operate the vehicle, nor can Nissan predict the period of time it may take for public charging infrastructure to be developed. If you attempt to charge from a non-compatible charging station, you may not receive a complete charge or may not be able to charge at all due to hardware and software differences.
A Quick Charge port (440V) is not standard equipment and is an option on the SL model only with limited availability. If necessary for you, it must be ordered initially and installed during manufacture. It cannot be added or retrofitted later.
Time to Charge varies, based on state of charge of the battery, condition and age of the battery, ambient temperature and condition of the power source connected to the vehicle. The following are estimates only; your actual experience may vary.
Standard Charge. - Empty lamp ~100%: ~7 hours
Trickle Charge. - Empty lamp ~ 100%: ~21 hours
Quick Charge. - Empty lamp ~80%: ~30 minutes
with battery temperature at 77 °F. (Quick Charging more than once per day not recommended)
B. Range. The distance you can drive (range) varies considerably depending upon state of charge, weather, temperature, usage, age, topography, and manner of driving.

Range Estimates: The range is dependent on a number of factors. When the battery is new, it is estimated that vehicle range will vary between 138 and 62 miles with a full charge for the majority of people under normal operation and various driving conditions. Some of the factors affecting range are ambient temperature, weight - number of passengers and payload, air conditioning/heating usage, high speed or stop-and-go driving, topography, battery capacity, etc. These are estimates based upon analysis and testing. Your individual style and location will dictate your individual range which will vary initially and as the battery ages capacity and range decline.
Gradual loss of battery capacity. Like all lithium ion batteries, the Nissan LEAF battery will experience a reduction in the amount of electricity or charge it can hold over time, resulting in a reduction in the vehicle’s range. This is normal and expected. The rate of reduction cannot be assured, however, the battery is expected to maintain approximately 80% of its’ initial capacity after 5 years of normal operation and recommended care, but this is not guaranteed. This number may be higher or lower depending upon usage and care. Factors that will affect and may hasten the rate of capacity loss include, but are not limited to: very high (above 120°F) ambient outside temperature when the vehicle is operated or charged, driving habits, vehicle usage, and charging habits (Quick Charging the vehicle more than once per day).
Driving/Operating. Driving the vehicle at constant speed and with smooth pedal modulation improves vehicle range. Nissan also recommends heating or cooling the cabin while charging just prior to driving. Vehicle range will be reduced by: (1) high speed driving (55+ mph), (2) aggressive driving (frequent or rapid acceleration) (3), severe conditions including heavy passenger/cargo load, uphill driving at a steep incline for extended periods of time, and (4) electrical use, especially heater or air conditioner use.
Limited Power Notice. This mode protects the health and operation of the vehicle’s battery. This mode is triggered in certain extreme conditions (heat, cold, low state of charge). Power available to vehicle systems, including its electric motor, will be limited resulting in limited performance, acceleration and top speed. Charging may be automatically terminated, especially with repeated quick charging in extreme hot weather. For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later.
III. Vehicle Operation & Features: Refer to owner’s manual for details.

A. Electric Vehicle. The Nissan LEAF is an all electric vehicle with no tailpipe emissions. In order for the vehicle to operate, the vehicle battery must be charged with electricity in advance. As the vehicle operates, it uses electricity stored in the vehicle battery. If the vehicle battery becomes completely discharged (a condition to be avoided), the vehicle will not operate until it is re-charged, a process which can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 21 hours (see Section II above).
B. The Solar Panel Spoiler on SL trim level supplies minimal charge to vehicle’s 12V battery to support operation of features (for example: charging a cell phone, operating the vehicle’s clock) and does not charge the vehicle’s lithium-ion battery nor extend range.
C. Data Recorders. The Nissan LEAF is equipped with several data recorders: (1) a data recorder for diagnosing repairs, (2) an Event Data Recorder (“EDR”) that records data in crash or near crash situations, such as an air bag deployment or hitting a road obstacle. The EDR records data related to vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less; and (3) Telematics and recorded vehicle data for features, analysis, and research. The Nissan LEAF records data concerning various vehicle systems, location, driving performance, and operating conditions. Some of this data is transmitted to Nissan through the vehicle onboard CARWINGS (telematics) system. This data is used for the provision of CARWINGS services, as well as for analysis and research by Nissan designed to, among other things, optimize performance of future electric vehicles including improvements in future battery life. Certain state laws restrict access to such data without the consent of the vehicle owner. Without your consent, the vehicle will de-activate the vehicle telematics system in your vehicle, and certain features, including all telematics, of your vehicle will not operate as intended.
D. Cellular Network. The CARWINGS system communicates through the AT&T cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included or supplied.
E. Roadside Assistance and CARWINGS Telematics Features (see III.C.3 above) are included through a subscription service which is standard in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
IV. Vehicle Maintenance & Warranty

As an electric vehicle, the Nissan LEAF has unique features, service requirements, and safety risks that require specially trained technicians and some specialized equipment.

A. Warranty: All warranty repairs may only be completed at a certified Nissan LEAF dealership. Not all Nissan dealers may be certified. The closest certified Nissan LEAF dealership may be located farther away than you would prefer.
B. Mileage at Delivery: Your Nissan LEAF’s proper operation will be tested by Nissan after production and your vehicle will therefore be delivered with some mileage reflected on the odometer and some battery use with minimal capacity loss. C. Li-Ion Battery Checks: Nissan recommends regular periodic maintenance, including two required Battery Checks to be completed by a certified Nissan LEAF dealership at intervals of 12 and 24 months at no additional cost to you. Performance of recommended maintenance, including the two Battery Checks, is a condition of your vehicle’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
D. Battery Replacement Costs: As your vehicle battery ages, you may decide to replace the battery due to gradual capacity loss and its effect on vehicle range. Replacement cost is unknown at this time, but the cost to you may be significant, and may be greater than replacing a gas vehicle’s power train. Nissan anticipates reductions in replacement battery cost as battery technology improves. Individual modules inside the battery pack may be replaced at a certified Nissan LEAF dealership, at much less cost than replacing the entire battery pack.
E. Repairs: BODY SHOP WARNING: In the event of a significant accident, the vehicle should be delivered to a certified Nissan LEAF dealer to have the battery pack and high voltage parts such as the inverter, including the wiring harness, removed prior to painting. Battery packs exposed to heat in the paint booth will experience capacity loss. Damaged battery packs may also pose safety risks to untrained mechanics and repair personnel.
 
sparky said:
A whole slew of stuff on the battery under Summary: "New vehicle disclaimers"

"For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later."

OK - my speculation is right. That is the reason cold states can order only in fall next year ...
 
evnow said:
sparky said:
A whole slew of stuff on the battery under Summary: "New vehicle disclaimers"

"For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later."

OK - my speculation is right. That is the reason cold states can order only in fall next year ...

I'm in California and every few years have enough snow that I use the upstairs windows for the front door!

Too bad they don't go into more detail about how cold cold is or how hot hot is in the above context. (ETA - oops - looks like hot is above 120. Guess I can't take the Leaf with me to Saudi this summer)
 
This is on my order tab now.....
how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact range

to get the most out of every charge, try:

* using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
* pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
* driving at slower, constant speeds.
* using eco mode.
* destination charging.

the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:
CARWINGS™ information system*

* Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
* Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
* Remotely starts vehicle charging
* Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
* Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
* Is provided to you complimentary for three years

The LEAF onboard navigation system

* Is "smart" enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to "make it," and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
* Displays your current range radius
* Will alert you if you need to charge
* Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
* Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
* Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range

Multi-function display drive computer

* Measures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
* Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power

Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you're slowing down, you're charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
 
and this too.....

your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*

how far you'll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.
depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 - 62 miles. range is most affected by:

Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.
there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:
EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 miles

The Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 - 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.
Ideal driving conditions: 138 miles

Speed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there's no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.
Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 miles

Speed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.
Highway driving in the summer: 70 miles

Speed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.
Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 miles

Speed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.
Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 miles

Speed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
 
and now this....

the battery in your Nissan LEAF™ is designed for years of use

With proper care and maintenance, your battery will last for many years. However, over time it will undergo some reduction in capacity. This will affect range. Consider though that 70% of people drive less than 40 miles per day. So even as your battery ages and range is affected, most people will not be impacted.
to help maintain battery capacity:

* Park/store in moderate temperature
* Drive Moderately (not aggressive)
* Use Eco-Mode
* Don't exceed 80% state of charge when using quick charge
* Use long life mode when storing the vehicle for extended periods of time (over 30 days)

excessive capacity reduction could be attributed to:

* Driving or storing your LEAF in extreme temperatures
* Repeatedly charging your LEAF by quick charge several times a day
* Driving aggressively (up hill driving for a long period of time at a steep incline or grade, high speed constant driving)

Like all lithium ion batteries, the Nissan LEAF battery will experience a reduction in the amount of electricity or charge it can hold over time, resulting in a reduction in the vehicle's range. This is normal and expected. The rate of reduction cannot be assured however, the battery is expected to maintain approximately 80% of its initial capacity after 5 years of normal operation and recommended care, but this is not guaranteed. This number may be higher or lower depending upon usage and care.
 
the battery heater really interests me. I am very familar with the performance changes in cold batteries. I am in Virginia and have a December order, April delivery~

I call my home Iceberg central in the winter its cold as heck!

I am guessing the battery heater wont be an option till the last wave fall 2011 orders


I would think its necessary in northern va


Kevin
 
kmp647 said:
I would think its necessary in northern va

Hi again Kevin (saw your post in the Batteries forum)! Well, "NoVa" (no go in Spanish which is why they couldn't sell the Chevrolet Nova in Mexico!) doesn't usually get that cold; certainly not cold like the Blue Ridge and I guess Tennessee will need it as badly as we do even though they're a bit farther south. Anyone near the Appalachians is likely to have heating issues.

The bad news for me is I'll likely be parking outside during the day so I would like to know more about the Minnesota-style heater block. But my guess is the temperatures they're talking about is just that: in the states where you need to heat your tank to keep the petrol from freezing you'll need the heater to keep your batteries from degrading. I think if -5F is the limit of the cold temperatures, Maryland, D.C. and VA should all be fine, but if it's more like 32F, heck, even Arizona easily hits that in the overnight. So I'd definitely want more info and would prefer the option, but I think we need more info.

That said, what really has me worried is the 62 mi in cold stop-and-go. 14F is still pretty cold for D.C. during the day, so it's not likely to be that bad too often, but there have been times where, for instance with the ice storm a few years ago and all those concrete overpasses, it's taken me 3 hours to go the 36 or so mi to my house. That's distressing. I'm thinking at this point I may be keeping my ICE for a long time. What's more, if 70% loss in 10 years is correct, then the car only does 43 mi under these conditions, little better than a Volt! I hope by that time I can convince my rather huge bureaucracy of an employer to install some public charging docks.

BTW, if you're on Facebook, you may be interested in this: http://aecn.timehorse.com/2010/08/facebook-advocacy-in-washington-dc.html
 
Thanks for the heads up

i live out 66 in Marshall va

quite cold here just east of the ridge

we have to run out heat into june

many times I have ice on my frt stoop into may!
 
I think the question of cold is relative. To my recollection, the battery heater is intended for places where "cold" is ~15 below 0-- for places where diesel fuel congeales. I seem remember Mark Perry saying it would be used in places where diesel fuel line heaters and engine block heaters are common. Think Fargo cold, not Virginia cold.
 
My thought is that if it sits out overnight it would be a bigger issue than if it is parked in an enclosed and semi warm garage. The battery is not going to drop in temperature that fast while driving. But I suppose if you park it all day at work in the snow it could be an issue. And then you may need a plug in to really make it work. Just some random thoughts, no source.
 
the point is without a battery heater a plug at work (110v)
helps but not nearly as effective as a battry heater that pre heats the pack befor my commute home

without it we have 5-15 degree high days during the winter

i can only imagine the crawl home with a 5 degree pack

Kevin
 
I've got to believe "cold" is sub-zero F. Like what we get in NH or in Montana (just to name two northen states). I can see a pack heater being good for grid-connected preheat - just like the cabin. But what about my drive home from work? I don't have a plug at work. Will the battery heater pull it's own power to warm itsself up?
 
essaunders said:
I've got to believe "cold" is sub-zero F. Like what we get in NH or in Montana (just to name two northen states). I can see a pack heater being good for grid-connected preheat - just like the cabin. But what about my drive home from work? I don't have a plug at work. Will the battery heater pull it's own power to warm itsself up?

Btw, Nissan has tested the batteries close to the North Pole. There's a photo somewhere on this forum showing it there.
 
i belive a grid connectd pre heater for the pack will be part of the cold package

thats what I amd referring to

wish i could get it on mine

course it would have to work on 110v I hhave at work
 
Here is the text right from the vehicle discalimer: For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later.


It says " below freezing climates" to me that means prolonged operation below 32 F

December and January in VA average is 35 f

many nights we hit 5 f to 10 F

some days highs are only 20 f

We need a battery heater in Virginia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone in a cold climate who gets an early Leaf with no cold package will find this out

but not till the first cold snap in November 2011
 
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